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student1
PAKISTAN
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 Topic initiated on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 6:54 PM 
Arguments regarding the existance of God
Asalam Aalaikum
This forum is dedicated for the discussion about the existance of God.
We already are having a debate on this topic in another thread but since that thread is for the discussion on registered course so I had no other option but to start another thread for this topic.
Brother aijaz ,please discuss this topic here..... |
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aijaz47
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 7:45 PM 
Dear Mr. Hanif
Existance does not necessarily have to be physical. As regards Mermaids, their existance is imaginary or fictional. Thus if it has a name it exists.
Secondly, deinal does not mean that that particular thing does not exist. One shall have to provide the prove for the denial. Physical existance is an attribute. So far it seems Mermaids do not have that attribute. Their existance is fictional. Can you deny the fictional existance of Mermaids?
Thirdly, Allah is The Creator of Universe and Claims to be so. I have not heard of anyone claiming to be the creator of The Creator. Answer shall be provided when the question arises.
Regards.
Edited by: aijaz47 on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 7:51 PM
Edited by: aijaz47 on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:04 PM |
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student1
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 9:00 AM
Dear Brother aijaz
Asalam Aalaikum
This is your reply to Mr. Hanif but i would like to present my comments on your reply and I hope you wont mind.
quote:
Dear Mr. Hanif
You Said:
Existance does not necessarily have to be physical. As regards Mermaids, their existance is imaginary or fictional. Thus if it has a name it exists.
Comment:
I agree with you on that, existance doesnot necessarily has to be physical since their are many non-physical elements which have existance but they are invisible for us.
As far as Mermaids are concerned,no doubt they are considered to be fictional and imaginary but if it has a perticular name, it doesnot necessarily mean that they exists, take an example of Aliens,they have a name but so far their existance is just a hypothesis and their are no explicit evidence which could really prove their existance.
You Said:
Secondly, deinal does not mean that that particular thing does not exist. One shall have to provide the prove for the denial. Physical existance is an attribute. So far it seems Mermaids do not have that attribute. Their existance is fictional. Can you deny the fictional existance of Mermaids?
Comment:
I agree with you, denial doesnot mean that a perticular thing does not exist but if it does exists then their has to be some explicit evidences which should prove its existance.
You said:
Thirdly, Allah is The Creator of Universe and Claims to be so. I have not heard of anyone claiming to be the creator of The Creator. Answer shall be provided when the question arises.
Comments:
According to my limited knowledge, we have not heard anyone claiming to be a Creator of the Creator but history tells us that during the period of Pharoh, People of Egypt use to worship him since he use to claim that he was(Naoozubilah) God and he gives life and death to people but he never provided any strong evidences to prove himself as God but still people use to blindly worship him because they feared his power of kingdom.
Their were several people who claimed to be Gods but how would you convince an atheist that their is no God but Allah(swt)?
Regards,
Edited by: aijaz47 on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 7:51 PM
Edited by: aijaz47 on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:04 PM
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aijaz47
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 7:54 PM
Dear Brother
So you agree that denial does not mean that a particular thing does not exist. Thanks for accepting my point.
Allah is The Creator of the unverse.
In the known history I have not been able to find anyone other that Allah who claimed to be the creator of the universe. If you know someone kindly introduce it to me.
People have been worshiping many imaginary gods since the begining of the time but have you ever heard any of them making any such claim.
Regards
Edited by: aijaz47 on Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:21 PM |
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aijaz47
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 8:06 PM
Main Entry: alien
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : a person of another family, race, or nation
2 : a foreign-born resident who has not been naturalized and is still a subject or citizen of a foreign country; broadly : a foreign-born citizen
3 : extraterrestrial
Main Entry: alien
Pronunciation: ‚†-l‡-„n, ‚†l-y„n
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin alienus, from alius
Date: 14th century
1 a : belonging or relating to another person, place, or thing : strange b : relating, belonging, or owing allegiance to another country or government : foreign
2 : differing in nature or character typically to the point of incompatibility
synonyms see extrinsic
–alien£ly adverb
–alien£ness \-l‡-„n-n„s, -y„n-n„s\ noun
Main Entry: alien
Function: transitive verb
Date: 14th century
1 : alienate, estrange
2 : to make over (as property)
Above are the meaning of the word Alien from the Merriam-Webster Collegiate dictonary.
Regards. |
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aijaz47
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 8:27 PM
Dear Mr. hanif
This is in reply to your question "who created Allah?"
My answer is that if it is created then it is not Allah.
Allah is the Supreme Creator.
Regards. |
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jxmedina
USA
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Posted - Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 8:57 PM
Assalaamu Aleikum All,
I must say that I have not read through the other area where this topic was discussed, but i wanted to make just a couple of comments. Denial does not take away existence, and for me, atheists that i have known in college, affirm Allah's exists in their very denial. Because if something is nonexistence then there is no reason to deny it. One can only deny something, but cannot deny nothing. This is my opinion.
Also, I agree there are things that exist that are physical and intangible. Does courage not exist because we cannot see it or touch it? Does fear not exist although we cannot see it or touch it? How about love? How about thinking? Thoughts and memories are intangible, but we all know they exist. But again, it does depend on what type of existence is under investigation. We see the power and creations of Almighty Allah in everything and everyplace, and everyone. Allah created all things whether we choose to believe or not, it takes nothing away from the fact that He exists. May Allah guide us all.
Fi Amani Allah
Jameelah |
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aijaz47
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, September 24, 2004 - 9:03 PM
Dear Jameelah
Kindly go to Forums> History of Quran> Collection under Abu Bakar ( may Allah be pleased with him).
Regards.
Edited by: aijaz47 on Monday, October 04, 2004 6:57 PM |
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Jhangeer Hanif
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 1:12 PM
You write:
Existance does not necessarily have to be physical.
I think you want to say that existence does not have to be 'actual'. Because we know that mermaids do not actually exist; they are fictitious in contrast to reality. We are not taking about the nature of God's existence - spirirtual or physical; we are talking about whether it is actual or not. Hence when we talk about mermaids, we know that their existence is not actual or real. Is this the case with God?
You write:
Secondly, deinal does not mean that that particular thing does not exist. One shall have to provide the prove for the denial. Physical existance is an attribute. So far it seems Mermaids do not have that attribute. Their existance is fictional. Can you deny the fictional existance of Mermaids?
In the second response, you are again confusing 'actual or real' with 'physical'. I am not talking about the nature of existence. I am talking about whether something really exists? Hence the stress is on real. I had written
About second argument, If someone denies the existence of mermaids, they are right in doing so. This does not prove the existence of mermaids - which no one has ever been foolish enough to profess. Does it?
I meant to say that their existence is not actual. So if someone denies that mermaid in reality does not exist, they would be right in doing so.
You write:
Thirdly, Allah is The Creator of Universe and Claims to be so. I have not heard of anyone claiming to be the creator of The Creator. Answer shall be provided when the question arises.
About the third argument, the atheist would simply say that I do not see him make such a claim. Because, if he were to see God as making a claim, he would question his existence since it would have been empirical for him. |
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Jhangeer Hanif
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 1:19 PM
Correction about the last sentence:
He would not question... |
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student1
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 7:45 PM
Asalam Aalaikum
Also i would like to add some of my comments.
You said that you have not seen anyone making the claim of being a creator of the Universe except Allah(swt),lets suppose if what you have said is true, then how will you convince an atheist about the existance of God?
Do you think that an atheist would without any hesitation agree with you on this?Now if you present to him Qur'anic evidences to prove that Allah(swt) is the only one who makes the claim of being the Creator of the Universe ,then are you sure that he will agree with you since they dont believe in any text of the Qur'an?
Regards,
Edited by: student1 on Thursday, September 30, 2004 9:07 AM |
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aijaz47
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 9:59 PM
No Sir, I am not confusing 'actual or real' with 'physical'.
Edited by: aijaz47 on Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:00 PM |
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aijaz47
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 10:23 PM
Dear Mr Hanif
Let me make myself clear. I have stated as an argument to prove the existancs of God, that 'if it has a name it exists'; thus Allah exists.
To refute my above argument you have stated that Mermaids do not exist although they have a name. May I humbly request you to prove your point that Mermaids do not exist?
Regards.
Edited by: aijaz47 on Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:26 PM |
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student1
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 11:22 AM
Asalam Aalaikum
Mashallah, brother aijaz ,its nice to see that you are making some good arguments, keep it up.
I can comment on your reply but Iam waiting for Mr. Hanif to present his comments on your reply.
Regards,
Edited by: student1 on Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:31 AM
Edited by: student1 on Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:39 AM
Edited by: student1 on Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:55 AM |
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student1
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 4:24 PM
quote:
Dear Mr Hanif
Let me make myself clear. I have stated as an argument to prove the existancs of God, that 'if it has a name it exists'; thus Allah exists.
To refute my above argument you have stated that Mermaids do not exist although they have a name. May I humbly request you to prove your point that Mermaids do not exist?
Regards.
Edited by: aijaz47 on Saturday, September 25, 2004 10:26 PM
Asalam Aalaikum
I think Brother Mr.Hanif is not present here, so i hope you wont mind if I comment on your replies.
You demand us to present evidences to prove that Mermaids donot exist.
Can you please present explicit evidences to prove their existance?
Also Iam waiting for your comments on my last post.
Regards,
Edited by: student1 on Thursday, September 30, 2004 9:11 AM |
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aijaz47
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 10:13 PM
The burden of proof shifts towards the one who makes the claim. Mr.Hanif claims that Mermaids do not exist. If you like to answer on his behalf you are welcome.
As regards your last post. Let us first agree that Allah exists. That is what I have been trying to prove. We shall then proceed to the next question of Oneness of God.
I suggest,let us not confuse ourselves.
Regards. |
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