| Author | Topic |
Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Topic initiated on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 8:14 PM 
Hoors of paradise
Asa wb
Dear viewers 
From the first time I heard about hoors years ago I could never accept scholars belief that Allah Swt intended hoors for men alone, with the earth wives becoming the mistresses of the hoors. 
From their explanations, I could only feel degraded as a female, just an object of desire for a man as well as believing that men having greater importance than women. I cannot accept scholars beliefs that this is what Allah Swt is telling us. 
The reason I find this belief unbelievable is because of the life of women in this world today. We all know that sex has become a big part of the media, industry as well as life. What dignity or respect do women have these days? Almost any programme you watch on TV cannot live without a man making a reference to a woman and her body.  I know women are to blame for revealing themselves but you don’t see men putting a stop to it. Instead men enjoy it and want more.
Being a Muslim sister, as much as I hate women out there who do such evil acts I also hate the men who just love what these women do. These dirty-minded men even make dirty comments about women who are decently dressed as well.
It hurts me so much that women are viewed this way. You hardly see women being seen as human beings who are equal to men in mind and soul. 
Allah Swt taught us about shame, modesty and dignity. These are factors that have been a part of me throughout my life. Because of how important this has become for me, never would I want a man to view me for my body. I believe that how men view women these days is just plain perverted.
So if you can understand where I am coming from, to see a scholar saying that Allah Swt has planned for the men of paradise to have female hoors on top of their wives from earth, just completely sounds bizarre. In this world its obvious that this is what women want to escape from. Not to be focused on because of their physical beauty but to be seen as human beings equal to men. 
Women have asked what they will get in paradise (obviously to see if anything could balance this out), but to their dissatisfaction scholars reply that all women’s minds will be erased from jealousy and hatred towards the hoors, and that they will be made the head of the hoors and they will be made the most beautiful. 
From this, any logical thinking woman of dignity and common sense would find this insulting as if her purpose in paradise is to only be an object of desire for a man, just like what is going on this world.
Now I may not be a scholar, but that doesn't mean that I can't tell from right and wrong or tell whether something sounds logical or not. I pray that I have some intelligence. I don't believe this is what Allah swt has planned for the women. 
I found it strange, that if this is the reward why should women have such feelings of disappointment, why do they feel degraded, why do they feel men will have dominance over them in paradise, why do they feel they are rewards for men Why would our Lord want women to have to go through feeling as if we were objects of desire, something that women feel horrible about in this world
So you see maybe I am making good points here and that some scholar’s don’t really understand the whole hoor issue including women’s needs or I am completely lost.
But there are some scholars who make sense to me. They say hoors are companions/spouses with beautiful eyes, who are of modesty and purity both for men and women.  It has nothing to do with men just getting intimate relationships with many women, which I think has been wrongly put out by some scholars.
So why shouldn’t women also get many beautiful male companions who have beautiful eyes and keep their gazes away from other women and are untouched by other women and are of complete purity and modesty. Don’t women also have desires
So maybe inshallah Allah swt is trying to tell men and women that He will bless both with beautiful companions in paradise, and that these companions are not there for simply sexual relations but for something much more valuable, friendship and other things we cannot imagine. In paradise men and women are equals.
I pray for Allah swt’s mercy, and I do sincerely apologise to anyone out there if they feel I have said anything in a wrong way, because this is not my intention. I simpy wanted to share my views and see what others think
Please share your views on this, especially from any sisters, or anyone who agrees with me. But opposite views are welcomed. 
Jazakallah 
Edited by: mikai on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:56 PM |
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zest
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 5:40 AM 
The Qur'an says:
To them will be passed round, dishes and goblets of gold: there will be there all that the souls could desire, all that their ayes could delight in: and ye shall abide therein (for eye). 43:71
We are your protectors in this life and in the Hereafter: therein shall ye have all that your souls shall desire; therein shall ye have all that ye ask for!-
41:31
So we learn that as a principle all will get what they deisre. No discrimination showed.
Also:
And in no wise covet those things in which Allah Hath bestowed His gifts More freely on some of you than on others: To men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn: But ask Allah of His bounty. For Allah hath full knowledge of all things.
It is the deeds that have to be weighed not gender.
Then how to explain the verses relating to hoorr???
For an answer please refer to: http://monthly-renaissance.com/marq42y1.html |
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Junaidj
CANADA
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Posted - Friday, January 14, 2005 - 5:32 AM
Does the Koran refer to (Damsels and Hunks) OR (maids and servants)?
Please explain? |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, January 14, 2005 - 6:26 PM
Asa
Jazakallah for your contribution Zest. I will properly reply to what you pointed out later.
To Junaidj
In answer to your question this is what one scholar said (named Dr.Zakir Naik), i copied this from an islamic website, but i made a few alterations with how it was presented just to make it easier for you to read:
1. Hoor mentioned in the Qur’an
"The word hoor occurs in the Qur’an in no less than four different places:
(1) In Sura Dukhan:
"Moreover, We shall join them to companions With beautiful, big and lustrous eyes." [Al-Qur’an 44:54]
(2) In Surah Al-Tur
"...And We shall join them to companions, with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes." [Al-Qur’an 52:20]
(3) In Surah Rahman
"Companions restrained (as to their glances), in goodly pavilions." [Al-Qur’an 55:72]
(4) In Surah Al-Waqiah
"And (there will be) companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes." [Al-Qur’an 56:22]
2. Hoor Translated as Beautiful Maidens
Many translators of the Qur’an have translated the word hoor as ‘beautiful maidens’ especially in the Urdu translations.
If hoor means ‘beautiful maidens’ or girls, then they are meant only for the men. Hence, what will the women get if they enter Paradise?
3. Meaning of Hoor
The word hoor is actually the plural of ahwar (applicable to man) and of haura (applicable to woman) and signifies a person having eyes characterized by hauar a special quality bestowed upon a good soul, male or female in paradise and it denotes the intense whiteness of the white part of the spiritual eye.
The Qur’an describes in several other verses that in paradise you will have azwaj which mean a pair or spouse or companion which means you will have spouses or companions pure and holy (mutaharratun means pure, holy).
"But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before", for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (forever)". [Al-Qur’an 2:25]
"But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath – their eternal home; therein shall they have companions pure and holy: we shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening". [Al-Qur’an 4:57]
Therefore the word hoor has no specific gender. Mohammad Asad has translated the word hoor as spouse and Abdullah Yusuf Ali as companion. Therefore according to some scholars a man in paradise will have a hoor that is a beautiful maiden with beautiful big and lustrous eyes and a woman in paradise will get a man with beautiful big and lustrous eyes.
So I hope that answers your question! 
Edited by: mikai on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:52 PM |
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Junaidj
CANADA
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Posted - Friday, January 14, 2005 - 9:56 PM
| Does this imply there will be polygamy and polyandry in Heaven? Or perhaps Harems? |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 10:57 AM
| When you go there, you can find out. |
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Junaidj
CANADA
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Posted - Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 6:49 PM
| in effect you are saying that you do not know. Right? |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 2:23 PM
I do not understand why people ask these kind of questions, whether we will get this and that in Paradise or not.
Read 16.31 verse in the holy Quran. Paradise is a place where the denizen will get what he/she desires. If you desire a hunk, I am sure you will be given a hunk. If you desire a hoor, you will be given one. Whatever you want, you will get it. The Quran does not enumerate all the things in Paradise, that is not the purpose of the Quran. It lists a few examples of things that are there. It does not mean that the things that are not mentioned in the examples will not be there. Just use your imagination. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 9:34 PM
Asa wb
To Junaida,
Dr.Zakir Naik unfortuanently didn't go any further in his answer, as much as i wish he did.
He mainly said that men and women will get hoors, so i think it's obvious that he meant that earth men and earth women will have their partner from earth and hoor partners as well (or as you put it polyandry and polygamy).
I pray in the near future that Dr Naik or some other scholar sharing the same opinion will show their answer in more detail just to give proper satisfaction to all Muslims as well as opening the minds of those scholars who are so opposed to the idea of women having hoors in paradise. Some think its crazy.
It would really be nice for those scholars to say that they could be wrong in their opinions, simply because their opinions as well as reasons sound iffy. 
Ps what do you mean by Harem, im sure i heard of the word but i cant remember |
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Junaidj
CANADA
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Posted - Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 9:59 PM
By Harem, I refer to the place run by Muslim Emperors where they delight in sexual affairs with plenty of women and have eunuchs to guard them.
The reason I bring up the maid versus Damsel distinction is to ascertain whether the Arab Muslim was so promiscuous that you had to entice him with Damsels, to keep him faithful?
and secondly if polyandry is forbidden then why allow it in Heaven?
because analogously one could say that homosexuality is forbidden, it would be allowed in Heaven. Hence the misinterpretation of the verse people usually quote, i.e., 'young boys like pearls'.
my point is what is forbidden here, is forbidden in Heaven. I am more inclined to believe the servant and maid interpretation. But then the question arises, why does the Koran mention the 'big eyes' property? And obviously Hadith paint a Harem picture. (which is why I loved someone's comment on Hadith in a different forum, i.e. you could make a movie/soap opera out of it)
Edited by: junaidj on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 5:16 AM |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 4:42 PM
Asa warahmatullahi wabarkatuhu
Just a quick reply Junaidj, since i don't have much time now, but i will inshallah try and respond to the rest of your points soon.
What you said about whats forbidden here is also forbidden in paradise is not true as far as I have learnt from scholars. Here is one e.g from a hadith:
'Umar reported that he heard the Prophet (peace be on him) say,
"Do not wear silk, for those who wear it in this life shall not wear it in the Hereafter." (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim.
So according to this hadith, men will be allowed the wearing of silk in paradise even though it is forbidden for them on earth.
This hadith also proves that just because something is forbidden on earth does not necessarily mean it is regarded as something evil. Simply because if silk was evil, there is no way Allah Swt would allow women to wear it on earth, as well as allowing men and women to wear it in paradise.
As regards to something forbidden on earth that is also evil for e.g is alcohol drinking. This is because of the evil effects it has on a persons body and mind, therefore it will also be forbidden in paradise.
I pray i made some good points here! |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 4:47 PM
What is forbidden here is not necessarily forbidden in Heaven. Take e.g. of alcoholic beverages.
The idea of Paradise is to reward those who used to do good. Allah says that in Jannah you will get what ever you desire. I think after this it is not necessary to ask whether one will get a hunk or a hoor. You will get what you desire.
Gardens of Eden which they enter, underneath which rivers flow, wherein they have what they will. 16.31 |
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Junaidj
CANADA
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Posted - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 5:04 PM
>>What is forbidden here is not necessarily forbidden in Heaven. Take e.g. of alcoholic beverages.
some scholars interpret it differently. they undertake wine to be that which inebriates one with God's love. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 5:15 PM
Asa wb
To oosman. I cannot answer for those sisters and brothers on the reasons why they are concerned about what rewards they will get in paradise. But I think you have missed the point on why I find it important to talk about.
Mainly it is not about the nature of paradise itself or the rewards we will get but it’s about what many scholars say regarding hoors and how women are viewed, which do not fit in with what Allah Swt teaches us in this world and Islam.
So I will try to explain to you my reasons in greater depth but please read my first email above again and try to understand what I have mentioned.
Did it ever cross your mind that if the mentioning of rewards in the Holy Qur’an should have no significance to us then why did Allah SWT mention them?
He mentioned them because He knew it would astound us and contribute towards our striving for a place in paradise. He wanted to put a delight in our hearts and show His care and love for us. He wanted us to have a taste in what paradise will be like and what wonders will be there that we cannot even imagine. The Holy Qur’an is what a believing man and woman would look first to, next to hadiths.
Islam is very important to me and I love learning about it. So much of what I have learned has great wisdom, reasoning and logic in it. This is what caused me to progress further and further to understand Allah Swt more in ways I never thought I could. I never thought I would find anything in it that would be too hard to understand.
The main reason why the hoor issue bothers me is because of how it makes women look like objects of intimacy and nothing else, and that this is what many men truly believe. To my disgust, I have read Qur’anic translations where a hoors chest was described and even worse her private part. How can this be a part of Islam? Allah Swt emphasises the need of both men and women to have modesty and dignity, but this is just thrown out when such descriptions of a woman are mentioned in paradise.
What dignity and modesty can a woman possibly have if Allah Swt supposedly is helping men to visualise images of what a woman regards as her shame? Can this really be something Allah Swt would say?
What has become a great evil in this world today, which is obviously hated by women of dignity and modesty? Obviously this hate that sisters feel is against the women who reveal themselves on TV and the men who see a woman’s body as their greatest desire.
For the poor sisters who have to live a life of disgust against these men and women, look towards Islam and the beauty of paradise, a place of perfection, a place of dignity and modesty, where they will be seen as companions, human beings etc.
So you see, when you connect the evil of this world and how sisters react to this with what scholars claim, that hoors are beautiful maidens for men, what is one supposed to think?
So you see this is why I really want to talk about it because I would really like to hear what other Muslims believe. I want to see whether they agree with me and see if I am making good points. This is one way to learn the truth about an issue regarding Islam. Questions and points like these can be put forward to scholars, and especially if I am right in my views this can help scholars to see it our way and help them to see whether their answers about hoors were wrong all along.
Yes I can simply listen to you and just be quiet about it, but I want people to see the true Islam, from life on this world to the rewards of paradise. I want them to see the justice between men and women, and that Allah Swt sees them the same in His hearts.
If I am right then you can see why I cannot just keep quiet, when many scholars are possibly wrongly making Muslims believe that hoors are for men making women look like objects which just doesn’t fit into Islam. To think how many Muslim sisters will be told to believe this, causing them to possibly feel alienated towards Islam throughout their lives, which is not right at all.
You see this is a learning experience. By talking about this we get a chance to learn more and get the truth out if it was wrong to begin with. Without asking questions how can one learn and understand and without asking questions how can one learn from what’s correctly interpreted and what’s not?
Well i hope this gives you an idea |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 5:30 PM
Asa wb Zest, I really appreciated your answer, which made a lot of sense. I agree that even though the Holy Qur’an refers to the masculine gender (regarding most general topics), these very same topics apply to the women too.
I know there are some topics where certain issues are different between men and women. To show the difference I noticed that Allah Swt would use the feminine gender in the Holy Qur’an, for e.g. covering up of men and women (where women need to cover up more than men), inheritance, marriage on earth etc. This is a very logical setting Allah Swt has used to show where topics regarding men and women are different.
So it doesn’t make sense that scholars say hoors are for men alone when Allah Swt didn’t mention the reward of women to show the difference. I find this very odd, because in all other areas of the Qur’an where women issues are different from men Allah Swt would mention it.
Allah Swt has been so clear about everything else regarding the differences between men and women, why not with rewards?
This can only prove that hoors are much more likely to be for men and women. The Holy Qu’ran is supposed to be simple and easy to understand, a lot of it is to do with logic and common sense. The Holy Qur’an is the book of justice.
So Allah Swt treats men and women as equal human beings regardless of gender. Allah Swt does not favour one gender over the other, and so to prove this Allah Swt would not have any general topic in the Holy Qur’an only applying to one gender when the topic itself should concern both. Therefore the rewards of paradise come under a general topic and should apply to both men and women.
It’s common sense because both men and women desire the rewards of Allah Swt. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 6:42 PM
Asa wb
Lastly to Junaidj, i never heard of harem and i can't see that as a part of Islam from your description of it. I don't see any dignity or modesty for either gender in it. Unless it is specifically stated in the Holy Qur'an i cannot believe that.
In response to "why does the Koran mention the 'big eyes' property?"
Yeah i know some people say it is a attractive quality in a woman but can you plz tell me what does a woman find attractive about a man? His nose, his hair errr what
If we do not take the "big eyes" description literally:
1) Allah Swt could be emphasising how maybe its the eyes of the hoors that will be the focal point of beauty and attraction. This is something both men and women desire in their partners.
2) Dr Zakir Naik said: "a person having eyes characterized by hauar a special quality bestowed upon a good soul, male or female in paradise and it denotes the intense whiteness of the white part of the spiritual eye."
If we were to take the "big eyes" description literally, i dont see anything wrong in a woman desiring big eyes in a man. It's not like Allah Swt described the hoors having big pouty lips and long flowing hair with slim bodies and voices like birds or something. If such descriptions were mentioned how can i argue with that?
So i don't see anything wrong in males having big eyes, hoors are different from human beings anyway, their beauty is beyond our imagination.
Lastly i would like to note that when i look at hoors i look at them as companions, friends, soul mates who are specially for you and no one else. So intimate relationships wasn't at the top of my list, that is not the only thing that one desires from their partner. Like Dr Zakir Naik said a hoor is a:
"a person having eyes characterized by hauar a special quality bestowed upon a good soul"
Jazakallah for all your comments!!! |
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