| Author | Topic |
Junaidj
CANADA
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 Posted - Monday, January 24, 2005 - 2:43 PM 
| Mikai, I am in full agreement with your opinion, that we commodify a woman if we start thinking of hoors as objects of gratification. I tend to prefer the companion interpretation as you have mentioned. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Monday, January 24, 2005 - 6:20 PM
I have read your comments and I have one thing to ask.
You all have a perception that Paradise is perfect. That is fine, but what is your definition of perfection? Does that defintion do justice?
A man (or woman) lives all his life obeying Allah , doing good, and keeping away from bad. Another person does the opposite, he gambles, he lives like a Playboy, has women (or men if female) on his side all the time, has harems, he parties, drinks, has mansions and lives in luxury. The good person watches the bad person every day and wants the things the bad person has, but he has taqwa and suppresses his urges.
Are you people saying that Allah will deny the good man all the things in Paradise because they don't satisfy your definition of modesty? What kind of a justice are you talking about? The bad man got everything he wanted in this life, where as according to your vision of perfection, the good man will not get these things in Paradise, and he didn't get them in this life either.
It is very clear from the holy Quran that a person will get whatever he/she desires. After that it is useless and ignorant to ask whether or not one will get this or that. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, January 24, 2005 - 9:19 PM
Asa wb
To Junaidj
Jazakallah.  Its's nice to hear someone agreeing with me. I'm glad i made sense out of something, i pray that this is what Allah Swt meant, because all i wanted to do is to apply reasoning and logic as well as the values Allah Swt has given us! |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, January 24, 2005 - 9:31 PM
Asa wb
To oosman, I'm simply trying to use my common sense, logic, natural instincts, reasoning and senses of right and wrong, which Allah Swt bestowed upon us all. It is these very attributes that have brought us to Islam!
I base my views of paradise not from my own personal desires but from what I have learnt from the values Allah Swt teaches us through the Holy Qur'an and Hadiths and from all the examples Allah Swt has set out for us in this world.
Some of these values are already a natural part of us that we just know in our hearts what is right, what is wrong, what is good and what is evil.
What are the purposes of such values if they will not be taken with us to paradise? Allah Swt is training us how to be good, how to think, how to feel etc, because Allah Swt is the Lord of perfection and purity, He is all that is good. The good values we learn here are just a step to the perfect values we will have in paradise. These values must have meaning and purpose.
Yes paradise is a place where a believer will have all he/she desires but dear brother I very much doubt our minds in paradise will be the same as they were in this world. How can our minds that are likely to be corrupted by evil to some extent be allowed in paradise?
In paradise our minds will be perfected and purified, all such jealousies, hatred, and other such desires we had in this world will be cleansed if they contained any wrong. You really think Allah Swt is going to grant a person his/her desire if it contained evil for e.g. wanting to drink alcohol and get drunk, or have so many luxuries with everyone else being poor???
I believe In paradise we will be able to think clearly and purely, because in this world it is very difficult to do that, since sometimes we cannot tell whether something we desire is actually bad or not. So I believe Allah Swt will cleanse our minds from all that He regards as wrong and open our minds to complete perfection and purity. Once that happens will our true pure desires come out which is what Allah Swt would grant a believer.
So for e.g. regarding a man getting hoors, Allah Swt will cleanse the man’s heart from any desires he has of women that are wrong. These partners he will get will be pure and have modesty, and the feelings and desires he will have towards them will be pure and of modesty. The desires that men have about women in this world these days are wrong and evil and are instilled by satan. These days by simply looking towards the western society the desires of men as well as women have become perverted. Such perverted thoughts are unlikely to be a part of paradise; it is not part of the good pure values Allah Swt has taught us. For e.g. Do you think Allah Swt will allow dirty music in paradise just because a man was restricted from listening to it here? Do you think Allah Swt will allow women in paradise to behave in perverted ways like they do in the dirty music videos they have here?
You said:
A man (or woman) lives all his life obeying Allah, doing good, and keeping away from bad.
Yes I agree with you. I believe Allah Swt is preparing us to be worthy of such a place as paradise. He is teaching us important values that inshallah will make us good Muslims and will be a core part of us in paradise.
You said:
Another person does the opposite, he gambles, he lives like a Playboy, has women (or men if female) on his side all the time, has harems, he parties, drinks, has mansions and lives in luxury. The good person watches the bad person every day and wants the things the bad person has, but he has taqwa and suppresses his urges.
I can’t say this for everybody but personally I do not envy any of the things that a non-Muslim has or does. There is no purity in what they do. The things they do are evil. Drinking, parties, luxuries, it puts me off!!! How can I envy them when they drink and become drunk which results them in behaving in such pathetic ways? How can I envy their parties where they mix freely where they have no self-respect or modesty? How can I envy the luxuries they have when they show off with pride and feel they are better then everyone else?
You said:
Are you people saying that Allah will deny the good man all the things in Paradise because they don't satisfy your definition of modesty?
No what I said is that from my understanding Allah Swt will give us similar things in paradise that are way better then what the Non Muslims have here. What’s special about the things in paradise is that they are pure and free from evil. For e.g Wine (which is not the wine of this world therefore it won't cause evil effects on us), hoors (not like the men and women of this world who have no sense of modesty and pure thoughts) but beautiful companions of modesty who are pure and holy etc.
So in paradise we will get similar things to what we didn’t get here in this world.
I would lastly like to remind you that the reason why you may feel the way that you do is because what the non-Muslims do is all around us. It makes you forget that what they desire is actually pure or not because they make it look good.
Anyway this is my opinion, May Allah Swt have mercy on me if I have said anything wrong. I respect that you are entitled to your own views so please respect mine. Only for the sake of Allah Swt do I accept that I could be wrong as much as I find that hard to see.
Edited by: mikai on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:00 PM |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 3:38 PM
May Allah make us God-conscious and pious and may we enter His Jannah by doing good and shunning evil.
I ask you to not limit your imagination with what you perceive is in Paradise, for no one has seen it. If you limit it, then you might be stuck with just what you imagined.
If you desire modest companions who are just companions, then I am sure Allah will grant that if you make it there. But if someone desires sex objects, then I am sure it is easy for Allah to grant that too.
The Christian concept of Paradise comes similar to your concept if you just think there are companions there. Christians regard sex as immoral, whereas in Islam there is no such concept. Christians think there will be no sex in Paradise. Muslims do not believe so.
There is nothing wrong with having sex-partners or objects or harems in Paradise. That is the reward from Allah for whoever He chooses. If you don't like it, there are many others who would. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:34 PM
Asa wb
Sorry I didn’t mean that there will be no intimate relationships in paradise at all. Intimate relationships are natural, I wasn't against that. I have seen nothing in the shariah that goes against it, so I see no problems in that. It's perfectly natural to have that as part of your relationship with your partner if that is what you desire, it is something that I would see as a result of the love you have for your partner. So if Allah Swt will allow that in paradise, well that’s up to Him Swt, however He has planned it.
But I have to disagree that hoors are made just for the purpose of having intimate relationships with and that this is all men should focus on. Allah Swt says the hoors will be the believer’s companions/spouses of modesty and holiness. So I see the hoors more than intimate partners. I see them as companions of incredible beauty inside and out, who are especially for you, who are your friends, your soul mates and no one else’s. As a result of their companionship with you it is perfectly natural to also want an intimate relationship with them if you desire it. I assume their relationship with you would be similar to the relationship one has with their partner on this earth. This could be why the believers will marry them, since from the interpretations I have read Allah Swt says the believers will be wedded to the hoors.
Regarding other comments you made; I want to say that intimacy has become a focal part of the whole world. It is now viewed in the most perverted ways. Are you trying to tell me that you believe that Allah Swt will grant men dirty desires, desires which have gone beyond the boundaries of decency and modesty? Desires, which are regarded as filthy, like the filth they have in music videos for example? Do you believe Allah Swt will grant them that? (if you didn’t mean that, then sorry I must have misunderstood what you meant). Do you believe this is what the hoors are for, and that is it, just to have intimate relationships with them or do you agree with what I said above?
If you don't (plz do not take this the wrong way), then where do you get your ideas? Where did you get harems from? It is not in the Holy Qur'an. All Allah Swt has mentioned is hoors, we cannot go beyond that, so plz inform me.
Lastly I would like to say that in the end who knows what paradise is like? All I know is that it will be incredible. Whatever Allah Swt has planned for the believers there, it will be the best. It was never my concern what paradise itself will be like, all that concerned me was what we are being taught to believe in this world regarding men, women, their modesty and dignity and what is right and what is wrong.
I know, because being a female the concept of hoors by some scholars really did make me alienated towards Islam (May Allah Swt have mercy on me) because I never would have expected to find something in Islam that made no sense, didn't show justice, and went into areas where no modesty or dignity were shown.
It's not right at all if generations of women as well as men are made to believe that men will get hoors and intimate relationships while women’s minds will be erased and will become the head of the hoors. To think if this is wrong, how many of us will be misguided and view Islam the wrong way, thinking this is how Allah Swt wants it while all along He didn't. To think how many men will wrongly view women and see them as just objects of desires, while the poor women have just got to accept their fate. What about non-Muslims who use this hoor issue to attack Islam, but if the hoor issue is percieved wrongly then these non Muslims are making good points against it?
Do you see how important it is for such an error to be corrected? To teach men, that women are more then objects of desire, women are human beings too who are their companions, that Allah Swt will also take women’s desires into account and give them hoors because He is the Lord of justice.
I just pray that all Muslims will inshallah view Islam from its laws, morals and values to rewards in the way Allah Swt intended, so if I am wrong or anyone else may Allah Swt guide us.
Opologies for becoming repetitve in some of my replies.
Edited by: mikai on Saturday, January 29, 2005 2:26 PM |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 6:40 PM
Assalam alaikum,
I couldn't help myself from exclaiming when you said >>> that men will get hoors and intimate relationships while women’s minds will be erased and will become the head of the hoors. <<<
Where do you get the idea that women's minds will be erased like that? Quran says no such thing nor does it say women will become hoors. From what I understand, hoor is a different creation of Allah taala. Every woman on earth, like every man, will have her recompense in paradise or hell. Hoor is something different from a woman, its a new creation.
You said >> To think how many men will wrongly view women and see them as just objects of desires, while the poor women have just got to accept their fate.<<<
Is it wrong that men desire women? Is that immoral or impure?
Quran 3.14: Beautified for men is the love of things they desire; women, ....
This is how Allah made men, first thing He mentions that men covet is women.
You said >>>What about non-Muslims who use this hoor issue to attack Islam<<<
There are from non-Muslim men who convert to Islam, one reason being the hoor reward and there being no such reward in the Christian philosphy. There is a reason why Allah mentions the hoor reward for men.
We cannot re-interpret the Quran to appease people who wish to attack Islam, we will never be able to appease them.
You said>>>Are you trying to tell me that you believe that Allah Swt will grant men dirty desires, desires which have gone beyond the boundaries of decency and modesty?<<<
Let me quote this verse yet again:
"Gardens of Eden which they enter, underneath which rivers flow, wherein they have what they will." Quran 16.31
Does it not say that there is no limit to what you can have in Paradise? Isn't that very clear? Does it not say that whatever desire you have, it will be granted to you? Does it say only good desires will be granted and evil will not be granted? No.
The morals, good, bad - these concepts only hold true in this life. They have no meaning in the after life. In the after life, we would have been already judged and being rewarded or punished. The concept of good and evil only has some meaning when you know you will be judged for an action. Once you have already entered paradise or hell, you will not be judged for your actions there. It is over, that is the end. There is no longer a concept of good or evil or dirty desires any more. You cannot do good or evil in Hell or in Paradise. You just exist there and either you are in agony or in delight, depending on where you are.
That is my understanding and Allah knows best. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:01 PM
Asa oosman
you said "Where do you get the idea that women's minds will be erased like that?"
Its from a hadith that i found quite a number of scholars using. Unfortuantely i do not have it right now to show you. It simply said that a woman's mind will be removed from jealousy and hatred towards her husband and husbands other wives. It is commonly used so i am surprised you haven't heard of it.
You said: "Quran says no such thing nor does it say women will become hoors"
I didn't say that. I said that the women will be made the head of the hoors or i think the word they used in the hadiths was mistress of the hoors. Oh and dont worry i know that hoors are a new creation.
you said "Is it wrong that men desire women? Is that immoral or impure?"
I think it is wrong to view them as just objects of desire and in perverted ways. I think its only because of how this world has become corrupted with women and sex, which is being advertised everywhere, that men mostly view women as intimate objects and nothing else. I feel this is why men view hoors in the same way and want the evil desires that are in this world. Like i said it is perfectly natural for one to desire an intimate relationship and however much they would want it, but i believe the hoors are more then that as well. Do you find anything wrong with hoors being your companions as well? Do you find anything wrong with the hoors having modesty? Do you find anything wrong with the intimate relationships in paradise being of modesty and purity?
you said "Does it say only good desires will be granted and evil will not be granted? No."
At first i thought it wasn't necessary to provide any direct proof because i was trying to apply the good values we were taught here, i thought it to be logical and common sense but fair enough, its completley understandable that you would like to see proof in some form to back up my views on only good desires being granted in paradise and not bad desires. You have every right to ask that and it is very wise to do so too. I will get back to you on that, and will also try and find the hadiths on womens minds being removed from jealousy as well as becoming the head of the hoors.
Lastly, as much as i dont agree with your views entirely, at least we both agree that hoors are for both men and women according to our sources of info eventhough our view on hoors are somewhat differenet.
Edited by: mikai on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 8:36 PM |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, February 11, 2005 - 7:55 PM
QUOTE: So why shouldn’t women also get many beautiful male companions who have beautiful eyes and keep their gazes away from other women and are untouched by other women and are of complete purity and modesty. Don’t women also have desires?
Presence of more than one male companion seems to be against the dignity, modesty, decency, shyness, purity or chasteness of a woman.
QUOTE: It was never my concern what paradise itself will be like, all that concerned me was what we are being taught to believe in this world regarding men, women, their modesty and dignity and what is right and what is wrong.
I do agree with you as I too think in the similar way.
QUOTE: Why would our Lord want women to have to go through feeling as if we were objects of desire, something that women feel horrible about IN THIS WORLD?
IN THIS WORLD, the desires are natural and not one way. It is never that the men enjoy and women suffer from the agony. In this world, a woman has all the rights to choose a man with beautiful eyes and the other criteria she likes and after marriage, reserving the rights throughout, can leave him by “Khulah” if finds something wrong and can choose again another man of her own choice. Women must never forget that if the sword of divorce is hanging over their heads, the similar two-edged sharp rather blunt sword too over the heads as well as shoulders of the men.
QUOTE: Women are human beings too who are their companions, that Allah Swt will also take women’s desires into account and give them hoors because He is the Lord of justice.
No doubt He is the Lord of justice and knows better.
In the end, the great sacred personality under the feet of whom the whole paradise is present must be proud of standing on it with her sons and daughters lifting and lapping, and having the guard of honour of not only the Hoors but angles as well. Now nobody must worry. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, February 11, 2005 - 11:37 PM
asa wb
Jazakallah for your contribution lovelall.
I take from your response that you do not see women having male companions in paradise and that you see it to be wrong.
You said: Presence of more than one male companion seems to be against the dignity, modesty, decency, shyness, purity or chasteness of a woman."
I see that you are using the life of women on earth as an example. Yes on earth a woman would lose some of the things you have mentioned because of good reasons behind them which i have put below.
1) The passing of diseases due to intimate relationships between many men
2) Allah Swt gave men the responsibility to look after their wives, and therefore are the head of the household. This cannot be achieved if a woman had several husbands because each one would demand a head position. Men also tend to be more physical and a woman trying to stop all her husbands fighting is a lot more difficult then a man stopping his wives.
3) Its less likely for a woman to be able to respond to all her husbands intimate needs becuase of her monthly menstrual cycle or when shes pregnant.
4) Also being able to have children with all her husbands is going to be extremely hard and a long process.
So these are some common reasons why a woman cannot have more than one partner here, but these reasons cannot be held against her in paradise because no such things can occur there. There will be no head of the household anymore, no fighting, no arguing, no jealousy, everyone will magically get along.
So with all these reasons thrown out why is it so wrong for a woman to have more than one partner in paradise? Is it because men are so used to it being the other way here on earth? Is it because men are so used to being the dominant ones, and dont like the idea of women having the same position? Is it because men dont like the idea of sharing their wives?
Paradise is a place beyond our imagination, and the life there will not be like the life of this world. So i do not see the earth life of men and women being the same as the life in paradise.
A woman will not lose dignity, modesty and purity by having more than one partner in paradise. In paradise she will be able to have her own position next to man and get whatever she desires (that is good and pure) as long as Allah Swt wills.
Companionship is a very important and special thing to have for both men and women (and i am not focusing on intimate relationships). Women have been prevented from experiencing that here because of very good reasons and from my understanding and beliefs men have been given the option to have more than one wife because of the orphan issue or where women need protection and cannot find a man to marry, i never saw companionship to be the main factor.
Regarding life in paradise:
I dont think a woman in paradise will have loads of men crowding round her or something at one time and place, but then again only Allah Swt knows.
It could be that each day or whenever she desires she can spend her time with a differenet male companinon.
I dont see anything wrong in that. If a man gets to experience being with differnet females then i see no wrong or shame in the women being able to expereince the same. It's like getting to be with differnet friends with differnet looks and with differnet personalaties.
You have to remember paradise is not earth. Paradise is a perfect place. Allah Swt will protect all women there and make them happy. If women will have male hoors, then these hoors will not have the faults the men of this world have. They will have all the good qualities that a women desires in them. So if a woman simply wants them as comapninons to talk to and have fun with, then why not, if she wants an intimate relationship then why not?
Anyway these are just thoughts about the life of paradise, only Allah Swt knows. I am trying to give you an idea that men who are so against the idea of woman having hoors dont have good reasons. I only see jealousy and dominant factors being the reasons as well as the fact that women never had that option in this world.
So what is your reason? If just say the Holy Quran gave some more detail on hoors and specifically said women will get hoors. PLease tell me in your honest opinion how you would react.
Edited by: mikai on Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:25 PM |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 11:45 PM
Thank you Mikai, Jazakallah!
Being not sure about the exact explanation in the light of Quran and Ahadith, I do agree with you as you have explained logically very well and succeeded to convince me removing some remnants of the confusion in my mind.
QUOTE: So what is your reason? If just say the Holy Quran gave some more detail on hoors and specifically said women will get hoors. Please tell me in your honest opinion how you would react.
I may do react like you but not more than the men who say why paradise is not under the feet of father.
Edited by: Loveall on Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:38 AM
Edited by: Loveall on Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:40 AM |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 5:50 PM
Asa wb
Hello Loveall, I really appreciated your answer; it actually put a smile on my face. It means a lot to me when someone agrees with my points or sees logical points being made. This is what I was attempting to achieve, I am truly trying to be sincere and logical in my answers, not only because of personal desires or something.
Can you please tell me whether you are a sister or a brother? Sorry because I am not sure!!! 
Quote: I appreciate you but what about the other women who put their eyebrows at the furrowed forehead, failing repeatedly, to convince the men while on contrary your single post proved to be a casting vote. Although a different topic, Can you please help me in this regard by the way?
Well I guess it depends what questions those ladies put forward to those men, and how far they take the discussion with them.
So far I have seen sisters asking a simple question on hoors and then just leave it as that. They never take it further with those male scholars. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the women accept their answers and are happy, it could be that due to lack of knowledge and having so much dependence on the scholars, they just grind their teeth and keep quite about it because they don’t know how to discuss it further. So who knows how they actually feel about it? 
It was the same with me. When I first looked up hoors, I was so dependent on scholars that I never thought they would be wrong. I was also new to learning about Islam in depth that I really did rely on their answers without having to do research myself.
What kept me quite on the hoor issue was with the way some scholars responded. They said these are the commands of Allah Swt so don’t dare go against Him. What else can a sister do but feel worried and scared that she might be going against God? 
I was truly disturbed by their responses. Their opinions on hoors upset me deeply but for the sake of Allah Swt I kept quiet and tried to accept that this is the way Allah Swt wants it. But honestly I always had a problem with it and prayed that their opinions were wrong. I always look for logical answers with reasoning behind them but I just couldn’t see it in those scholars’ answers regarding hoors. Their answers would just get more bizarre and one sided.
What surprises me is that these scholars cannot be open-minded or even try to understand our points. They act like they believe that their answers are 100% correct, and we are just non intelligent beings who have no right to ask questions simply because we are not scholars.
As far as I believe Islam is a religion of logic and reason. These are the 2 of the main factors that make Islam differ from other religions. For e.g. why do more women convert to Islam these days? - Because of the rights they get. Why is alcohol haram? - Because of its toxic effects on the human body. It’s our very nature to apply logic and reason to issues, and this is why we see Islam to be the truth. You do not have to be a scholar to know what is right and wrong, you just need average intelligence and knowledge. Scholars are they to guide us......right
So regarding hoors if we were to look at the Holy Qur’an alone, which are the preserved words of Allah Swt, hoors are companions/spouses for the believers.
Scholars get the idea that hoors are female from hadiths and personally as much as I respect the Sunnah, it cannot compare to the authencity of the Holy Qur’an. The Holy Qur’an is the word of God and is for both believing men and women. Allah Swt says He treats both men and women with equality. Therefore if Allah Swt says men will get a special reward which is hoors then either these hoors are for women too or Allah Swt would have mentioned what special reward women will get in the Holy Qur’an too so women are not left out. 
So all I can say is that these hadiths, which say hoors are for men alone, contradict with Allah Swt saying that He treats men and women with equality, because it is not shown in the Holy Quran, our main source of guidance.
Lastly scholars say that women are told what they get in paradise in hadiths, but how can hadiths compare to the Holy Quran, the preserved words of God?
Well i think i better stop, sorry for making this long. Oh and i want to emphasise that i am not going against the whole sunnah or something.  |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 6:29 PM
Quote: I may do react like you but not more than the men who say why paradise is not under the feet of father.
You made an interesting point. I don't know much about the hadith in question but this is what i think. 
Maybe it is because the mother goes through menstrual cycles every month, has to carry the child in her womb for 9 or so months, and that she has to go through the painful birth. Then she has to breast feed the child and is the main parent to look after the child through the childs life time.
I think the mother is the direct main carer for the child because as we know in the Holy Quran it says that men are the protectors of women and have to provide for them. So while most likely the husbands are out working it is the wives who mainly look after the children. Therefore the wives cook for the children, dress them, take them to and from school, wash them etc.
Also maybe the hadith does not literally mean that paradise is underneath the mothers feet (we all know there are many requirements for us to get a place in paradise, like not committing shirk, praying 5 times prayers etc). I guess the hadith is just emaphasisng how important a mother is, and how important it is to obey her and respect her and look after her after all she has done for you. These are some ideas.
But we know that both parents are important:
In the Holy Quran it says:
....and be dutiful and good to parents (2:83)
....whatever you spend of good must be for parents (2:215)
...and that you be dutiful to your parents. if one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.
... and we have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good to his parents. HIs mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in 2 years - give thanks to Me and to your parents. (31:14)
So you see these verses are from the Holy Quran and Allah Swt mentions the importance of being good to both parents. I dont think the mother is more important than the father but it could be that Allah Swt wants children to be extra sensitive to their mother because of certain hardships she went through that the father didnt.
Edited by: mikai on Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:21 PM |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 8:17 PM
Asa Oosman, sorry for the late reply.
----------------------------------------
QUOTE:
Let me quote this verse yet again:
"Gardens of Eden which they enter, underneath which rivers flow, wherein they have what they will." Quran 16.31
Does it not say that there is no limit to what you can have in Paradise? Isn't that very clear? Does it not say that whatever desire you have, it will be granted to you? Does it say only good desires will be granted and evil will not be granted? No.
END QUOTE
----------------------------------------
Ok i had a look for some evidence and this is what i found so far:
Here are some verses which i took from the Holy Quran that indicate that paradise is a place of only good desires and not evil desires:
They shall not hear therein (in paradise) any dirty, false, evil vain talk, but only salam (salutations of peace) (19:62)
No Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk) will they hear therein, nor any sinful speech (like backbiting) (56:25)
No Laghw (dirty, false, evil talk) shall they hear therein, nor lying (78:35)
Fruits: and they (shall enjoy) honour and dignity, (37:42)
(commentary on this verse: The gardens delights are figured forth from parallel experiences in our present life...............and the society of the Companions of the opposite sex, with beauty and charm but none of the grossness too often incidental (happening in connection with) to such companionship in this life.)
There will be for them all that they wish (50:35)
commentary - to get all that our purified wishes and desires comprehend.....)
According to these verses Allah Swt has put restrictions in paradise. The believers of paradise will not be allowed for e.g to lie, backbite, or speak dirty about another person. Also according to the commentary (taken from the Quran by Mushaf Al Madinah) there will be no grossness in the compannionships in paradise like they have here. This indicates that there will be a level of modesty in paradise for men and women.
Also there are many verses describing paradise as a beautiful place with rivers and springs and fruit. A place of peace and security. Isn't this obviously connected with the impresssion of good?
So you see this is proof enough that paradise will have good values in it. Paradise is a perfect place of all that is good, whatever Allah Swt sees as good. If there was no concept of good or evil in paradise then why does Allah Swt prevent the believers from cursing there, or talking dirty about their friends or partners if they desired. Why cant they just do what they what they want, drink and get drunk, curse at others, show off, treat their wives (or husbands) just as sex objects and nothing else. 
So you see Allah Swt will clear our minds from all that He Swt considers as evil. The above verses are likely to be examples of what Allah Swt will not allow in paradise. Just because He hasn't mention certain things does not mean they will be allowed in paradise, that is left to our own common sense and what we have learnt from the Holy Quran here and the good values it contains.
How about we also look at some of Allah Swt names as well:
Al Jabbar - The one who subdues wrong and restores right
Al bar - The kind, The Righteous
Al noo takim (not sure i spelt that right) - The avenger of evil
Allah Swt hates evil so whatever He considers as evil will not be allowed in paradise, therefore He will clear our minds to whatever necessary extent, which will be likely before we ask what we want in paradise.
So with the desire of wanting hoors only as sex objects, or maybe desiring the kind of dirty things women (or men) do on this earth, like how they dress or dance in dirty videos etc, In my opinion i believe it is regarded as evil and dirty with the good values Allah Swt has taught me here to back me up.
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Edited by: mikai on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:32 PM |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, March 5, 2005 - 11:03 PM
Asalamo Alaikum
QUOTE: So you see these verses are from the Holy Quran and Allah Swt mentions the importance of being good to both parents. I dont think the mother is more important than the father but it could be that Allah Swt wants children to be extra sensitive to their mother because of certain hardships she went through that the father didnt.
I agree with you. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 1:58 PM
Asa wb to all readers.
I'm still very much interested in this topic and was hoping to find any sisters or brothers who agree with the points i have made. If you do please do reply and tell me what you think and add any more points that i haven't mentioned!
If you have any other information from scholars opinions not mentioned here so far please do post them here too. It would be interesting to see what different people think of hoors, what they are and who they are for.[/b]
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