| Author | Topic |
mahmed08
PAKISTAN
|
 Posted - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 2:08 PM 
Assalam o Alaikum!
So conclusion upto this point is as below:
"Mirza sb was a sufi and has made claims like many sufis of the past..........." (aboosait)
"no matter who claims of prophethood after Muhammad sws/peace be upon him, it will be taken as blasphemy and the claim rejected". (hkhan)
Now the important question that rises is that:
Q. Were all the sufis of the past were rejectors of the finality of prophethood on Muhammad (sallallaho alayehay wasallam) either by claiming the prophethood or by following the tasuwwaf?
It is worth mentioning here some names of the great sufis of past.
Sheikh ibn e Arbi(RA).
Imam Ghazali(RA).
Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani(RA).
Sheikh Ahmed Sirhindi(RA) (Mujaddad alf e sani)
Syed Ali Hajveri(RA).
Shah Waliullah(RA).
Shah Ismail Shaheed(RA).
So were all of them were rejecters of very basic tent of Islam (Khatam e Nabuwwat)? Should their all teachings, books, scholarly work be rejected?
Regards!
M Ahmed
P.S. "Divine communication" between God and sufis yet to be discussed. We ll discuss it but later inshaAllah. |
|
mahmed08
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 3:45 AM
Assalam o alaikum!
In the same context please tell that what is the difference between claim of "Maseelma Kazzab" and claim of the sufis of Islam(including Ghulam Ahmed)? |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 9:52 AM
quote:
"Mirza sb was a sufi and has made claims like many sufis of the past..........." (aboosait)
When and where did aboosait say that? Please provide date and time of post if you are truthful.
I am copying and pasting what aboosait had written in one of his posts for your kind perusal.
quote:
Mirza Ghulam Qadiani’s life was laden with contradictory and anti-Islamic claims.
In 1880, he declared himself to be only a Muslim writer;
in 1885, he announced he was a revivalist (Mujaddid);
in 1891, he claimed to be the Promised Mehdi and the Promised Messiah; and
in 1901, he pronounced himself a prophet of God! Facing an open and strong opposition by Muslim Scholars and religious leaders for this blasphemous declaration and other teachings which belittled Jesus Christ(pbuh) and contradicted the Quranic revelations, he also announced that he was the second and improved coming of the Prophet Muhammad(SAW) with authority to reinterpret the Holy Quran at his pleasure! Not happy with mere prophethood,
in 1904, he declared himself the Krishna (the Hindu Lord). Obviously, like an unethical modern-day politician, he was trying to appeal to all uneducated segments of the public in India!
Edited by: aboosait on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:55 AM |
|
mahmed08
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 4:03 AM
Assalam o alaikum!
Well brother aboosait answering one of my questions u qouted the above mentioned qoute of brother Mujahid.
I am copying it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mahmed08
PAKISTAN Posted - Monday, November 03, 2008 - 11:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear aboosait, if i am going round in circle then help me to come out of this circle.
What i ve understood from your post is the "falsehood of Divine communication between God and Sufis/Saints". But i am unable to find the answer of my present question in your previous posts. Considering it to be lack of my understanding please answer again.
Q. In the view of writings of Sufis/Saints of the past, do u consider all of them claimant of prophethood? Was Mirza sb claim like those sufis/sainats or the sufis/saints of the past claims were same as Mirza sb?
Please answer the above question.
"Falsehood of Divine communication can be discussed later.
Regards!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aboosait
INDIA Posted - Monday, November 03, 2008 - 11:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear aboosait, if i am going round in circle then help me to come out of this circle...........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mujahid UNITED KINGDOM Posted - Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 8:11 AM .........
Brother Salah ud din,
The link provided by Aboosait indeed gives irrefutable answers to your 'question'.
In my humble understanding Mirza sb was a sufi and has made claims like many sufis of the past...........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inorder to reply my question u used the quotation of brother Mujahid which i understood as ur point of view also. Anyhow its not an issue. If its not ur point of view its ok.
Please answer the unanswered questions in my previous posts. If u want i can again put these questions.
Regards!
M Ahmed
Edited by: mahmed08 on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:09 AM |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, December 3, 2008 - 1:25 PM
quote:
........Inorder to reply my question u used the quotation of brother Mujahid which i understood as ur point of view also.................
TThats ok. But it appears you have not read the first sentence of brother Mujahid 
quote:
The link provided by Aboosait indeed gives irrefutable answers to your 'question'.
Wa alaikum assalam wa Rahmatullah.
Edited by: aboosait on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:26 PM |
|
mahmed08
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Thursday, December 4, 2008 - 3:42 AM
Assalam o alaikum.....
Ok brother aboosait, it was just a matter of misunderstanding and i apologize for that. Now i ve got ur point of view. I ll be back soon, inshaAllah.
Regards!
M Ahmed |
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 11:49 PM
| we should not exclude the possibility that such claimants could have a psychological disorder.. |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 2:12 AM
quote:
we should not exclude the possibility that such claimants could have a psychological disorder..
Going by that analogy, would you consider all apostates and enemies of Isalam as having a psychological disorder?
Is'nt psychological disorder some kind of a disease?
A man said to the Prophet, (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam):
"Why do we have to be stricken with disease?"
The Prophet (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said,
"It is atonement for your sins"
Ubai bin Ka`b asked
["Even if it is not serious?"
The Prophet (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said,
"even if it is a thorn."
(Ahmad).
And Imam Bukhari reported that Abu Hurayrah narrated the hadith of the Prophet:
“Allah has not created any disease without also creating a medicine or a remedy for it (ma anzala Allah da’ illa anzala lahu shifa’).”
The word al-inzal, (literally, "send down"), according to Ibn Ahmad al-Ayni, indicates that disease was sent down by Allah (s.w.t) through the angel (inzal al-mala’ikah al-muwakkilin bi mubasharah makhluqat al-ard min al-da’ wa al-dawa’).
Allah or His Prophet will not punish a person for his disease because He Himself has sent it down. And when the punishment for apostacy is death, how could you call apostacey as a disease?
And by the way was that your personal opinion or the opinion of the forum administrator/moderator?
Edited by: aboosait on Friday, December 12, 2008 2:35 AM |
|
mahmed08
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 3:46 AM
Assalam o alaikum!
Please answer my these questions. i ve already asked these questions in my previous posts. Here again copying those.
Q1.In the view of writings of Sufis/Saints of the past, do u consider all of them claimant of prophethood? Was Mirza sb claim like those sufis/sainats or the sufis/saints of the past claims were same as Mirza sb?
Q2. Were all the sufis of the past were rejectors of the finality of prophethood on Muhammad (sallallaho alayehay wasallam) either by claiming the prophethood or by following the tasuwwaf?
It is worth mentioning here some names of the great sufis of past.
Sheikh ibn e Arbi(RA).
Imam Ghazali(RA).
Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani(RA).
Sheikh Ahmed Sirhindi(RA) (Mujaddad alf e sani)
Syed Ali Hajveri(RA).
Shah Waliullah(RA).
Shah Ismail Shaheed(RA).
So were all of them were rejecters of very basic tent of Islam (Khatam e Nabuwwat)? Should their all teachings, books, scholarly work be rejected?
Q3. In the same context please tell that what is the difference between claim of "Maseelma Kazzab" and claim of the sufis of Islam(including Ghulam Ahmed)?
Regards!
M Ahmed |
|
mahmed08
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 3:52 AM
Assalam o alaikum!
Well H Khan! I ll comment on this psychological disorder when we ll be dicussing divine communication, inshaAllah.
M Ahmed |
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Friday, December 12, 2008 - 9:23 AM
hmm..
A;we aren't discussing 'why' they become psychological, rather that they 'may' have become. there can be many reasons one of which you have mentioned. also we are not giving claimants a respite because of this possibility.
as for ur reasoning for disease is concerned, i do not see any of my patients entering our doors as a sinner. this does not apply everywhere. disease should be taken as a test as other trials in life. surely there are diseases like STIs which are a direct result of wrong practices;
also, in individual circumstances, as one's personal relationship with God, ofcourse one must keep assessing/correcting him/herself whenever anything goes wrong in life. |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:07 PM
quote:
.............. we are not giving claimants a respite because of this possibility..............
Then why this soft corner towards Mirza saheb?
quote:
i do not see any of my patients entering our doors as a sinner..
Did I say a doctor's cabin was the "place of judgement"? |
|
salahuddinzafar
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, December 24, 2008 - 3:50 AM
Assalam o alaikum
Well Mr Ahmed, regarding islam and sufis u better read the topic "Islam and Tasuwwaf" in book "Burhaan" written by Allama Javaid Ahmed Ghamidi. after studying that i also asked some questions on tasuwwaf to studying-islam team. Answewring to my question regarding our attitude towards the sufis/saints of the past i got the following reply:
salam
In spite of being plagued with tasawuf all of these scholars were great personalities and in some areas there views were not effected by tasawwuf. For example Shah Wali Ullah's Hujjat ullah Balighah is a masterpiece of Islam.
Our attitude should be to weigh the views of each of these scholars in the scales of the Qur'an and Sunnah and decide accordingly.
|
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 3:53 PM
quote:
Our attitude should be to weigh the views of each of these scholars in the scales of the Qur'an and Sunnah and decide accordingly.
That is not our duty. Their deeds will be weighed by Allah Subhanahu Ta'ala just as our deeds will be weighed. None will bear the burden of the other.
Our duty is to follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah and to follow those scholars who teach us Islam as understood by the Salaf. If they refuse to give proof for their statements from the authentic Islamic sources, reject them. |
|
salahuddinzafar
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Monday, December 29, 2008 - 7:23 AM
Look at these two quotations:
1.Our attitude should be to weigh the views of each of these scholars in the scales of the Qur'an and Sunnah and decide accordingly. (Studying-Islam/SZ)
2.Their deeds will be weighed by Allah Subhanahu Ta'ala just as our deeds will be weighed. (aboosait)
In the first statement "VIEWS".
In the second statement "DEEDS"
Definitely deeds ll be weighed by AlMighty. Studying-Islam is talking about "views" not "deeds".
Regards!
Edited by: salahuddinzafar on Monday, December 29, 2008 7:25 AM
Edited by: salahuddinzafar on Monday, December 29, 2008 7:26 AM |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Monday, December 29, 2008 - 1:36 PM
quote:
.........In the first statement "VIEWS".
In the second statement "DEEDS"
Definitely deeds ll be weighed by AlMighty. Studying-Islam is talking about "views" not "deeds".
Jazakallahu khair. Thanks for pointing that out.
aboo. |
|
 Reply to Topic 
Printer Friendly |
| Jump To: |
|
|
|