| Author | Topic |
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Tuesday, September 8, 2009 - 1:04 AM 
We have received very good arguements from both the sides giving a real life to our forum discussion. Thank you all  Am sure our forum visitors will benefit from this debate.
As shehzads mentioned, I have noticed that the ladies in the Pakistani or Indian and Bangladeshi society who do not cover their heads in public, instantly put a Dupatta or a head cover on as soon as they hear Adhan or when they pray Namaz,Meelad or when a Naat or Quran recitation is heard. I just want to understand what is the motive behind this. If you ask them they will say, "Well, it is to give respect to Allah and Rasool saw."
So somewhere in their minds they believe that head cover is associated with some kind of respect! May be this comes from their culture and tradition they are sub-conciously attached to.
Secondly, although I do not believe that head cover determines one's faith and a woman cannot be a good Muslimah if she does not cover her head or face, but I feel that in order to cover the rest of the body, head cover plays a role of a Guardian, you may call it. I have seen in the history of women's clothing in various cultures and religions that wherever women dropped their head covers down, it became too easy to slip the clothing down from the neck,gradually exposing the top part of their chests in low necks, you can see these neck designs in all tailor shops and boutiques in Pakistan today, down down and hence the briefest of Libas or dress was the result for the daughter of Eve.
Hence I suppose that just like the Sunnah prayers or rakahs are not fard but they guard our fard prayers, similarly head cover is not fard but guards our fard covering of the parts of the body which must be covered in order to save us from promisquity.
To my Artist daughter, I gave an example of a "Picture with it's frame" The frame is these extra measures we take in order to protect our main picture i.e. the main action or deed which is fard/obligatory, perhaps protected by some optional acts.
But again we cannot generalize this fact. There are women who stick to a certain modest dress code very strictly throughout their lives without covering their heads or faces, but there are others who would stick to the latter as they feel that they can protect their modesty and faith better in a dress code which includes head or face cover. What is important is to understand the essence & main purpose of the value. |
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shahidas
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Wednesday, September 9, 2009 - 11:11 PM
I think enough has been said on this topic, and the links provided by brother Ibrahim give real good explaination and knowledge about it.
I wonder what any one thinks about women from some muslim countries who cover their head properly but wear skirts and show their ankles and even their legs below the knees. I have noticed this with Iranian, Turkish and some other Arab nationals which seems even worse practice than not covering the head. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 4:06 AM
quote:
........women from some muslim countries who cover their head properly but wear skirts and show their ankles and even their legs below the knees...
Are all men and women in Muslim countries also Muslims? I think non muslims also have a right to live in those countries. |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 4:50 AM
"I wonder what any one thinks about women from some muslim countries who cover their head properly but wear skirts and show their ankles and even their legs below the knees. I have noticed this with Iranian, Turkish and some other Arab nationals which seems even worse practice than not covering the head."
This whole debate was weather head covering is mandatory or not? You have just shown your bias eveen though you seem to be the moderator and made a sweeping statement "worse practice than not covering the head".As for women showing their ankles wearing skirts blouses etc. that is their perogative of what they want to do, they are answerable for their actions.
There are worse things than not covering your head so to speak, what goes on in that head weather covered or not.
Modesty clean intent and respect of one's sexuality should prevail. |
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shehzads
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 1:58 PM
Well Miss/Mr.Saba2 ,I feel that the moderators have given very balanced comments.Look at hkhans comments also.If the second moderator has said something as her or his opinion, he or she cannot be accused of that.
You just picked a point and trying to conclude the discussion in your favour. If you do not wish to cover your head, that's your personal matter but don't try to end the discussion with what you feel is right.There are equal number of evidences present for both the views hence you cannot expect one to prevail fully and it's individuals choice at the end of the day what they choose.
It is best to leave the decision open after all the arguements have been given. |
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shehzads
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 3:14 PM
| To saba2. Also you have still not replied to my question that whether you(if you are a lady sorry:) cover your head during namaz or not and if you do or see others doing it, why do you think you do it? |
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faysal99
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 5:14 PM
I think we are missing here the basic question "What is Deen" ? and then the next basic q's
"What are the basic Makhaz/Sources of Deen".
Either its Hijab ruling or any other , all differences emerge from this basic question about "Makhaz of Deen". I would also suggest Moderators to introduce a new Course about "Sources of Islam" and make it mandatory for new members to take start from it
Unless , this basic question is not clearly understood and one is intellectualy convinced about it, the discussion will not be much fruitful and everyone will bring references to prove his/her point.
1) Allama Ghamidi takes only "Quran/Sunnah ( Or as he often says "Its only now the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the sole source of Islam" as Basic Makhaz of Deen and hence he interprets "Hijab" accordingly
2) Ahl-e-Sunnah(Deoband/Braveli) considers "Quran/Sunnah/Ijma(Consensus of Ummat)/ and Qiyas" all as basic sources of Deen
3) Ahl-e-Hadith considers "Quran/Hadith" as basic source for Deen but they take Hadith as an explanation of Quran
4) Shiites takes the interpretation of Quran/Sunnah as told by their "Imams" only
All differences regarding Hijab emerge from the basic question. Now it depends on person to person about which approach he/she finds more convincing.
Edited by: faysal99 on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:15 PM
Edited by: faysal99 on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:18 PM |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 7:11 PM
Faysal I never thought from this view point and you are right people belonging to different "Makhaz of Deen"will differ because the sources they value and find reliable will be from their school of thought. So how do we come to a consensus specially if we need to pass laws?
Shehzads only one moderator has given balanced view and has been a part of the discussion the other has not been very balanced one in fact a very large sweeping conclusion. I feel these kind of comments should not be made by anyone let alone a moderator. It also gives the impression that it a closed community though I have yet to come across any Islamic website which is so open and tolerates different opinions. I was not trying to conclude the discussion in my favor, how can I? I am the only one who feels modesty is not compromised when a woman does not cover her head, and neither am I asking women to stop covering their head. Saying all this if my words have offended any one on this forum I apologize and a specific apology to the moderator maybe I did not choose my words wisely.
As for your other question you seem to want to make a point so go ahead. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 8:14 PM
again there has been a good input from all.
saba2 u hv been lucky being able to discuss the matter directly and as u must hv noticed we hold quite a balanced view on this matter as explained to u in detail with references.
(another odd noght tonite;let us all pray to God to guide us all to the best in all matters~sirat e mustaqeem & accept our trivial efforts ameen; and sp.pryrs for the sisters who lost their lives in pakistan while queuing in to recv a bag of flour to make chapattis for their family for the iftar. sisters!none can surpass ur sacrifices u make for ur families, whether u cover ur heads or not! may Allah shower His blessings on you.if anyone wishes to send money to help these people, plz donate via our 'support page' )
http://www.studying-islam.org/donations.aspx
Edited by: hkhan on Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:41 PM |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 10:41 AM
Wow news travels fast. Yes I have had long discussions with two very learned scholars, your Dean and Dr. Ibrahim B. Syed: President Islamic Research Foundation International They both had very patiently explained their views with references and helped me come to my conclusion.
As for the other matter Pakistan is in a very bad shape the social and economic fabric of our society has been ripped apart due to corruption and lack of respect for human life. This was a sad incident that took place and lives of men women and children were lost. We try to work in education and social sector but our efforts seem like as you put it in urdu Aatai main namak kai baraber, sometimes it can be disheartening because there is so much suffering and so few people working towards elevating that suffering , but you cannot give up can you ? so we pick ourselves up and march forward, May God except our efforts and more people join hands to help. It is a noble thing this forum is doing collecting charity to help the needy the hike in prices of basic necessities has broken the spirit of the common man and has pushed him back against the wall. |
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fatoom
AUSTRALIA
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Posted - Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 2:28 PM
Sorry where's the answer from the mods saying 'Hijab is fard, but cannot be forced onto a woman'?
SubhanAllah!
People please be careful when you post or speak, as saying hijab is NOT compulsory is creating a lie against Allah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and eeman.
Ameen |
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shehzads
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, September 18, 2009 - 8:24 AM
| Fatoom you need to read the whole discussion again. Some hard work :D |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, September 18, 2009 - 8:31 AM
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shehzads
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, September 18, 2009 - 8:46 AM
| Its ok saba2. I am your sister in Islam and also trying to learn.May Allah guide us to the right path.Ameen. |
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fatoom
AUSTRALIA
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Posted - Friday, September 18, 2009 - 11:13 AM
| my post wasnt directed at either of you |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, September 18, 2009 - 12:16 PM
| So what do you want to know? |
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