| Author | Topic |
sksamsherali
INDIA
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 Posted - Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 10:37 AM 
Salam, h.khan
Dear khan, If you think that we are fighting with you, then your are also fighting with us because you always advised us to see the links of your father websites e.g. www.renaissance.co.pk etc..etc.. Whatever may be, I asked you a question through my earlier post on Thursday, March 15, 2007. Did you see it?? If yes, then please tell me the truth.
2ndly I hope that every one of this forum had already seen/read that article which I sent on 19 March, 2007 regarding ‘Millat Ibraheem’. What is Millat Ibraheem, this article on http://www.quran-islam.org/176.html clearly explained. If any one did not read this till date, he can read for his satisfaction, if he wish.
Samsher |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:09 PM
dear ali,
1.Is it ok to obey the Quran which is a verbal transmission of Muhammad BUT NOT the authentic traditions which is a verbal transmission of the same Muhammad?? I realize the Quran is protected by Allah, but will plz answer the original question...where can I find the performance of the actions required by the Quran in the Quran.
(short answers plz )
Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:34 AM |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:15 PM
2.I have to agree that Muhammad did not write hadith. In fact, I do not think he wrote the Quran either. I am referring to the one people the world over think is the Quran, the one in Arabic.
Who did you think wrote the Quran? Some say it was written by scribes and approved by Muhammad himself before he passed away. Do you agree? Are they telling the truth? How do we verify that? Please do not give me "he said/she said" baloney. Only the truth.
3.
I am concerned that for you, the only authentic Quran is what Rashad Khalifa claims is his english translation of the Quran. Would you say that everyone must read English to read his translation, the only authentic Quran?
Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:35 AM |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:20 PM
4.
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The ayat say to be loved by God you must love and obey Him and His messenger. How are you obeying the Messenger? By practicing what he preached. The MESSAGE was the words of the Quran and the actions of the Messenger...NOT JUST THE QURAN. If it was just the Quran...there is NO POINT in OBEYING THE MESSENGER. Isnt it clear enough for us to understand?
Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:38 AM |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:24 PM
5.
I again ask you....the Quran requires me to perform Hajj, Salat, Zakat, Sawm, etc. over and over again. Yet no where does it describe the means by which to perform these actions. It is only by the actions of the appointed Apostle of God can I learn this.
(few months back I asked you if the salat end with last prostration then there must be more than one prostration in salat,then tell me how many prostrations should be in salah)
Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:39 AM |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:26 PM
6.
The Prophet was taught by the angel Jibril the understanding of the Quran, how to pray, how to perform Hajj, etc. These are not things he already knew. You, unless you have a link to God, cannot follow the Quran like the Apostle did..because he learned through revealation. You are not an Apostle.
---------
your comments in brief on the above statement.
Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:41 AM |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:28 PM
7.
The Quran is a ''Book from Allah" because Muhammad told the people what the Quran was/is.
So if you cannot obey what "Mohammad" left ...than you cannot obey the Quran...because Muhammad tranmitted the Quran..
Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:42 AM |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:42 PM
brother ali,
All I want a brief discussion(not lectures)to develop an understanding .Plz dont quote or reference others as your own short logical arguments are enough and authentic to me.
(Marathon details to support one's claims means diverting attention)
wassalam |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Friday, March 23, 2007 - 11:35 AM
quote:
dear ali,
1.Is it ok to obey the Quran which is a verbal transmission of Muhammad BUT NOT the authentic traditions which is a verbal transmission of the same Muhammad?? I realize the Quran is protected by Allah, but will plz answer the original question...where can I find the performance of the actions required by the Quran in the Quran.
(short answers plz )
Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:34 AM
Dear Raushan,
Reply:- Qur’an proclaims that we should not follow anything besides IT as source of our religious law of Islam. Also Qur’an proclaims that Qur’an is FULLY DETAILED, COMPLETE & PERFECT. What do you think to say FULLY DETAILED, COMPLETE…etc???
[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
[10:37] This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD. It confirms all previous messages, and PROVIDES A FULLY DETAILED SCRIPTURE. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.
[2:185] Ramadan is the month during which the QURAN WAS REVEALED, PROVIDING GUIDANCE FOR THE PEOPLE, CLEAR TEACHINGS, AND THE STATUTE BOOK.
[10:37] This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD. It confirms all previous messages, AND PROVIDES A FULLY DETAILED SCRIPTURE.
[18:109] Say, "If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out, even if we double the ink supply."
Particularly this verse clearly implies that if Almighty Allah felt necessary to give us a much bigger Qur’an than the present one, then He could have easily be given, because He is not short of words. But HE did not feel so.
Islam was completed through the revelation of Qur’an.(5:3)
The above verses clearly imply that Qur’an is FULLY DETAILED, COMPLETE and is the ONLY GUIDANCE FOR US. So I think we should not require any other source besides it to observe Islam. If you think otherwise then it is your choice, I have no objection
[39:29] GOD cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners (Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source (Quran). Are they the same? Praise be to GOD; most of them do not know.
Samsher. |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Friday, March 23, 2007 - 12:13 PM
quote:
2.I have to agree that Muhammad did not write hadith. In fact, I do not think he wrote the Quran either. I am referring to the one people the world over think is the Quran, the one in Arabic.
Who did you think wrote the Quran? Some say it was written by scribes and approved by Muhammad himself before he passed away. Do you agree? Are they telling the truth? How do we verify that? Please do not give me "he said/she said" baloney. Only the truth.
3.
I am concerned that for you, the only authentic Quran is what Rashad Khalifa claims is his english translation of the Quran. Would you say that everyone must read English to read his translation, the only authentic Quran?
Dear raushan,
Q:- 2. Reply:- Although Qur’an does not say us HOW IT WAS WROTE DOWN yet I think (it is my understanding) Prophet Muhammad was the first to write down the Quran (may be through the scribes) revealed to him and when he died , the whole Quran was completely written, although not in one book, but rather on pieces of woods, papers, palm leaves, bones…etc. It was the first Khalifa, Abu Bakr who collected the Quran into one book. The manuscript on which the Qur'an was collected, remained with Abu Bakr and then with Umar (the second Khalifa), and after him, it remained with Hafsa, 'Umar's daughter and one of the Prophet's wives. This copy of the Quran, was the only copy made after Muhammad's own copy. It is from that copy that Uthman, the third Khalifa, made other copies to distribute to different regions of the Islamic Empire. Uthman returned Hafsa's copy of the Quran to her. Her copy however was later burned by Marwan b. Hakam (d.65/684). Of the copies made by Uthman, two still exist to our day. One is in the city of Tashkent, (Uzbekistan) and the second one is in Istanbul (Turkey).
The most important question here is that the above information is not require for our salvation or the above information does not fall under the category of Religious Law.
3. Reply: I don’t think so. It is independent ‘s choice. I can say only that the Rashad Khalifa’s English translation of Qur’an is the easiest and more accurate than the other English translations
Samsher
Edited by: ibrahim on Saturday, March 24, 2007 8:20 AM |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Friday, March 23, 2007 - 12:30 PM
Dear raushan,
Reply:- 4. Why Almighty Allah said ‘obey messenger’ instead of ‘obey Muhammad’? I know now you ask me this type of question e.g. ‘was not Muhammad a messenger….etc..etc.?’ Yes Muhammad was a messenger, but my question is why Almighty Allah did not say even in single instance in the Qur’an that ‘Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad’, instead all the times God said in the Qur’an ‘Obey Allah and Obey messenger’ Why?
It is because Almighty Allah wants to say that we should follow/obey only his message i.e. Qur’an so He said every time in the Qur’an that ‘Obey Allah and Obey messenger’. Prophet Muhammad practiced ONLY QUR’AN and nothing else. He preached Qur’an and practiced Qur’an.
Samsher |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Friday, March 23, 2007 - 12:42 PM
Reply: 5. I again ask you, do you not believe that Qur’an is Fully Detailed, Complete….? If yes then you should not ask this question. I think you should ask yourself the question whether ‘do you believe Almighty Allah’s proclamation that Qur’an is Fully Detailed, Complete… or not? When Almighty Allah says that Qur’an is Fully Detailed and Complete then It is. Do you think that Almighty Allah commands us to observe Hajj, Salat, Zakat, Sawm but he did not give the details of these rites in the Qur’an, yet He proclaimed that Qur’an is Fully Detailed, Complete and also He forbade us to take any other source as source of religious law beside Qur’an!!!!!!!!!
(few months back I had already answered your question)
Samsher |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Friday, March 23, 2007 - 12:47 PM
salam raushan,
Quote : The Prophet was taught by the angel Jibril the understanding of the Quran, how to pray, how to perform Hajj, etc. These are not things he already knew. You, unless you have a link to God, cannot follow the Quran like the Apostle did..because he learned through revealation. You are not an Apostle.
---------
your comments in brief on the above statement.
Reply: At first you tell me where in the Qur’an did you find that Muhammad learnt how to perform Hajj, salat etc. etc… from Jibril????
Samsher |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
|
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 11:58 AM
quote:
quote:
dear ali,
1.Is it ok to obey the Quran which is a verbal transmission of Muhammad BUT NOT the authentic traditions which is a verbal transmission of the same Muhammad?? I realize the Quran is protected by Allah, but will plz answer the original question...where can I find the performance of the actions required by the Quran in the Quran.
(short answers plz )
Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:34 AM
Dear Raushan,
Reply:- Qur’an proclaims that we should not follow anything besides IT as source of our religious law of Islam. Also Qur’an proclaims that Qur’an is FULLY DETAILED, COMPLETE & PERFECT. What do you think to say FULLY DETAILED, COMPLETE…etc???
I didnt ask whether Quran is perfect,detailed,complete or not.Every muslim knows it.
What I asked you is simple: "where"can we get 'the performance of actions required by Quran'?"where" means the sources who can say us the details of a situation where the Quranic guidelines are executed during the last prophet's time. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
|
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 12:12 PM
quote:
quote:
2.I have to agree that Muhammad did not write hadith. In fact, I do not think he wrote the Quran either. I am referring to the one people the world over think is the Quran, the one in Arabic.
Who did you think wrote the Quran? Some say it was written by scribes and approved by Muhammad himself before he passed away. Do you agree? Are they telling the truth? How do we verify that? Please do not give me "he said/she said" baloney. Only the truth.
3.
I am concerned that for you, the only authentic Quran is what Rashad Khalifa claims is his english translation of the Quran. Would you say that everyone must read English to read his translation, the only authentic Quran?
Dear raushan,
Q:- 2. Reply:- Although Qur’an does not say us HOW IT WAS WROTE DOWN yet I think (it is my understanding) Prophet Muhammad was the first to write down the Quran (may be through the scribes) revealed to him and when he died , the whole Quran was completely written, although not in one book, but rather on pieces of woods, papers, palm leaves, bones…etc. It was the first Khalifa, Abu Bakr who collected the Quran into one book. The manuscript on which the Qur'an was collected, remained with Abu Bakr and then with Umar (the second Khalifa), and after him, it remained with Hafsa, 'Umar's daughter and one of the Prophet's wives. This copy of the Quran, was the only copy made after Muhammad's own copy. It is from that copy that Uthman, the third Khalifa, made other copies to distribute to different regions of the Islamic Empire. Uthman returned Hafsa's copy of the Quran to her. Her copy however was later burned by Marwan b. Hakam (d.65/684). Of the copies made by Uthman, two still exist to our day. One is in the city of Tashkent, (Uzbekistan) and the second one is in Istanbul (Turkey).
The most important question here is that the above information is not require for our salvation or the above information does not fall under the category of Religious Law.
Very true,excellent brother.
All I need to know that 'the standards of reliability'that 'who said 'you the above peice of research which led you to 'think' that its true or close to the truth.
quote:
3. Reply: I don’t think so. It is independent ‘s choice. I can say only that the Rashad Khalifa’s English translation of Qur’an is the easiest and more accurate than the other English translations
Samsher
Edited by: ibrahim on Saturday, March 24, 2007 8:20 AM
I appreciate,but one can have the same views for Yousuf Ali or Pickthal or anyother translator.do you agree to your own statement.
On the other note,I told you earlier in the previous question by Quran I mean the Quran in arabic.
can you say a translation can replace its original words or is it a human work and may prone to errors? |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
|
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 12:17 PM
quote:
Dear raushan,
Reply:- 4. Why Almighty Allah said ‘obey messenger’ instead of ‘obey Muhammad’? I know now you ask me this type of question e.g. ‘was not Muhammad a messenger….etc..etc.?’ Yes Muhammad was a messenger, but my question is why Almighty Allah did not say even in single instance in the Qur’an that ‘Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad’, instead all the times God said in the Qur’an ‘Obey Allah and Obey messenger’ Why?
It is because Almighty Allah wants to say that we should follow/obey only his message i.e. Qur’an so He said every time in the Qur’an that ‘Obey Allah and Obey messenger’. Prophet Muhammad practiced ONLY QUR’AN and nothing else. He preached Qur’an and practiced Qur’an.
Samsher
will you elaborate for me as if there is any difference between 'preach 'and 'practice'. |
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