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geek101

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, December 03, 2005  -  11:59 PM Reply with quote
salaam brother
ok, i do realise that the hadith (message) and sunnah (way, system) are two different things.
But i dont understand how you can say you dont follow the words of someone like Bukhari, when the sunnah things are actually written in the hadith.
Maybe i'm being stupid here, in which case i apologise, but please could you explain to me, how exactly do you know what is sunnah, without reading the hadith?
thank you
regards
salaam
aisha
Nauman

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, December 04, 2005  -  10:53 AM Reply with quote
As-Salaamu Alaikum Aisha,

While waiting for Mr. Ibrahim’s reply; you can visit the link below for your own information:

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=322

Edited by: ibrahim on Monday, December 05, 2005 5:32 AM
geek101

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, December 04, 2005  -  6:26 PM Reply with quote

thank you for that. And i will visit the link you provided
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, December 05, 2005  -  5:51 AM Reply with quote
wa salaam Dear Sister Aaisha
Lots of thanks 4 realising that hadith and sunnah are two different things. I do hope it'll Help U in understanding lots of things.
Now Plz Note that we do not take SUNNAH things Just Bcoz they are written in the hadith. Actually we have Got Whole SUNNAH thru the PRACTICLE "Twatur" (Continuity) & "Ijmaa" (Consensus) of Muslam Ummah & we have Got Quran thru the ORAL "Twatur" (Continuity) & "Ijmaa" (Consensus) of Muslam Ummah. For a Detailed Explanation Plz Do visit the link provided by Br. Numan. Thanks
& There is NO need to Apologise on any thing here & PLZ 4 God Sake never say urself stupid or any thing Else. There is NO HARM to Ask ANYTHING if U r really trying to understand Bcoz we r Here Only 4 THIS purpose. So Plz FEEL FREE to ask MORE if needed.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, December 06, 2005  -  10:32 AM Reply with quote
Salam brother,

Quote:- My Question is V Simple That Plz Tell ME In DETAIL about the PROCESS thru which "THIS Quran has Reached in YOUR Hands?" My Pt. of View is that it has Reached "ME" thru the "TWATUR" (Continuty) & "IJMAA" (Consensus) of Muslim Ummah.

I'm Sorry to Say that I've asked this Q many times in my Prev. Posts BUT U've NOT writtten EVEN a SINGLE WORD about the PROCESS of Transmission of Nobel Quran to U according to U people. U can't RUN AWAY by saying that "Twatur (Continuity) & Ijmaa(Consensus) of Muslam Ummah are Satan’s new trick to divert the attention of believers from only the Qur’an."

>>>> I told several times that Qur’an was revealed by Almighty Allah through Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad was the first to write down the Quran revealed to him and when he died, the whole Quran was completely written, although not in one book, but rather on pieces of woods, papers, palm leaves, bones…etc.

But, Prophet Muhammad did not write his sunna and did not permit anyone to do this during his life time. Almighty Allah gave only Qur’an to him and nothing else and he practised that Qur’an and nothing else. He did not find any other source besides it. Almighty Allah forbade him to give religious instruction besides the Qur’an.
[18:27] You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, AND YOU SHALL NOT FIND ANY OTHER SOURCE BESIDE IT.
[53:2-5] Your friend (Muhammad) was not astray, nor was he deceived. Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire. It was divine inspiration. Dictated by the Most Powerful.

Long after the death of Prophet Muhammad, for idolizing him beside God, hadith & sunnah were invented by some people, about which(hadith & sunnah) there is not a single reference in the Nobel Qur’an. Nowhere it is mentioned that we should observe 5 times daily salat, nowhere it is said that we should add Prophet Muhammad’s name in ‘Sahada’(Testimony), in Azaan, nowhere it is said that we should add some steps in our God given ‘Wudu’(ablution) etc…etc… which, people like you, are called Sunnah of Prophet …..

So, it is wrong to say that we should accept sunnah as our religious source of Islam besides Qur’an as it(sunnah) has come to us through Twatur, Ijmaa….. !!!!

Nowhere in the Qur’an it is said that everything which comes through Twatur, Ijmaa… we should accept them as our source of Islam. You can’t show any single reference from the Qur’an regarding your plea i.e. Twatur, Ijmaa……etc..etc.. Rather Qur’an says as follows;
[6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.
[2:170] When they are told, "FOLLOW WHAT GOD HAS REVEALED HEREIN," they say, "WE FOLLOW ONLY WHAT WE FOUND OUR PARENTS DOING." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
[2:171] The example of such DISBELIEVERS is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.
[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, USING THE QURAN ALONE, they run away in aversion.

Almighty Allah says that we should accept ONLY QUR’AN as our ONLY RELIGIOUS SOURCE. Twatur, Ijmaa….are not the CRITERIA. Our CRITERIA should only be the Qur’an through which we can judge what information regarding religious guidance is true or false.

Brother, I asked you a simple question through my previous post, but you could not able to reply this simple question yet. My question was;

First you should tell how could you know with certainty that men-made Muhammad’s sunnah are originally practiced by Muhammad or was originally Muhammad’s Sunnah? For example you pray five times a day and also in this way i.e. you observe Zuhr(noon) & Asr(Afternoon) Salat with maintaining total silence, first two unit of Maghrib(evening) and Eesha(Night) salat with maintaining moderate tone and other parts of these salat with maintaining total silence….etc….etc…. and also you claimed these are all Muhammad’s Sunnah, which reached you through consensus of opinion, now what is the proof that Muhammad prayed five times salat in a day and also in these way(mentioned above)? Show me from the Qur’an.

Do you think that practical portion of Islam i.e. Prophet’s Sunnahs is other than Qur’an, which almighty Allah revealed to Muhammad separately?

Prophetic Hadith also reached you in the same way as men-made Prophet’s sunnah reached you, then why you don’t believe on hadith?

Please also try to give your reply to my questions besides these, which I posed - Tuesday, November 29, 2005.

Quote:- THIS DISCUSSION will END here from My side Bcoz My all Other Aurguments r BASED on the Answer of This BURNING Question. So if U r Really Sincere in then Discussion then Plz GO AHEAD & Provide Us our DEAMNDED Details.

>>> You cannot discuss anything depending on your false arguments brother. At first, at least show some or any proof from the Qur’an regarding your claim and these(claim of twatur……) are not any burning question according to the Nobel Qur’an. This is your imagination brother.

I am very much sincere but I don’t want to compare conjecture i.e. sunna & hadith with the GOD Given only one source i.e. Nobel Qur’an.

Salam
Samsher.


Edited by: ibrahim on Monday, December 12, 2005 8:45 AM
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, December 08, 2005  -  7:06 AM Reply with quote
wa Salam brother,
Quote:- I told several times that Qur’an was revealed by Almighty Allah through Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad was the first to write down the Quran revealed to him and when he died, the whole Quran was completely written, although not in one book, but rather on pieces of woods, papers, palm leaves, bones…etc.
>>> Sorry Brother! ur ANSWER is STILL incomplete. I want the DETAILS of that PROCESS thru which THAT written Quran has REACHED to U. I hope U too Believe that PROPHET's WRITTEN Quran is NOT Present.
Quote:- But, Prophet Muhammad did not write his sunna and did not permit anyone to do this during his life time. Almighty Allah gave only Qur’an to him and nothing else and he practised that Qur’an and nothing else. He did not find any other source besides it. Almighty Allah forbade him to give religious instruction besides the Qur’an.
>>> Well there was NO NEED for SUNNAH to be WRITTEN down like Quran as Sunnah r NOT Words BUT Practices. & plz Tell me WHERE u've Found that Prophet didn't "PERMIT" anyone to write other than Quran during his life time? What's the PROOF w U that Allah "gave only Qur’an to him and nothing else".
Quote:- Long after the death of Prophet Muhammad, for idolizing him beside God, hadith & sunnah were invented by some people, about which(hadith & sunnah) there is not a single reference in the Nobel Qur’an.
>>> That's where ur Knowledge is BIASED Bcoz no (1) Sunnah was Present from the 1st Day when Muhammad (pbuh) became prophet & NO (2) Hadith was too Present Not only right after the Death of Prophet but Even DURING his LIFE & only Biased People will DENY this HISTORICAL fact BUT remember I do NOT want to ARGUE w U on HADITH here right NOW.
Quote:- So, it is wrong to say that we should accept sunnah as our religious source of Islam besides Qur’an as it(sunnah) has come to us through Twatur, Ijmaa….. !!!!
>>> Can I ASK what's WRONG in it?
Quote:- Nowhere in the Qur’an it is said that everything which comes through Twatur, Ijmaa… we should accept them as our source of Islam. You can’t show any single reference from the Qur’an regarding your plea i.e. Twatur, Ijmaa……etc..etc..
>>> well Brother I've Promised that I'll show MANY things from the Quran too BUT 1st let us END our Despute regarding the Transmission of Quran
Quote:- Brother, I asked you a simple question through my previous post, but you could not able to reply this simple question yet. My question was;
First you should tell how could you know with certainty that men-made Muhammad’s sunnah are originally practiced by Muhammad or was originally Muhammad’s Sunnah?

>>> I'll REPEAT again that SUNNAH is NOT Men-Made. It's GOD-Given Exactly like Quran is & we r SURE about it Exactly the SAME way as we've Become Sure of the Holy Quran.
Quote:- For example you pray five times a day and also in this way i.e. you observe Zuhr(noon) & Asr(Afternoon) Salat with maintaining total silence, first two unit of Maghrib(evening) and Eesha(Night) salat with maintaining moderate tone and other parts of these salat with maintaining total silence….etc….etc…. and also you claimed these are all Muhammad’s Sunnah, which reached you through consensus of opinion, now what is the proof that Muhammad prayed five times salat in a day and also in these way(mentioned above)? Show me from the Qur’an.
>>> Why shud I SHOW my PROOF from Quran?. I NEVER claimed that I've taken them from Quran. U urself r describing that it has reached us thru the "Consensus" So My CLAIM is that there is CONSENSUS for MORE than 1400 years NOW that "Muhammad prayed five times salat in a day and also in these ways(mentioned above)."
Quote:- Do you think that practical portion of Islam i.e. Prophet’s Sunnahs is other than Qur’an, which almighty Allah revealed to Muhammad separately?
>>> Yeah Yeah, That's what I'm trying to Convey.
Quote:- Prophetic Hadith also reached you in the same way as men-made Prophet’s sunnah reached you, then why you don’t believe on hadith?
>>> That's where U r NOT Correct. I've NEVER claimed & will NEVER do so as Hadith has NOT reached us thru TWATUR & IJMAA. So, we've Believe in it BUT we CAN'T give it the SAME STATUS that we Give to SUNNAH & that's what I'm CONSISTANTLY trying to CONVEY.

Quote:- I am very much sincere but I don’t want to compare conjecture i.e. sunna & hadith with the GOD Given only one source i.e. Nobel Qur’an.
>>> Well I've NO doubt in ur Sincerity nevertheless I wud Just REQUEST that U shud at least try Understand Our Basis of Our Pt. of View regarding SUNNAH b4 denying it. I'm sorry to SAY but I feel that at the Moment U r JUST denying it & NOT even understanding OUR Aurguments. Well SURELY u've the RIGHT to DENY anything U want to BUT my REQUEST is that PLZ try to understand MY Pt. of View on MY BASIS not on ur BASIS. & Believe me IF this Happens only then OUR this LONG discussion will be FRUITFUL.

Regards
Ibrahim.
Nauman

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, December 12, 2005  -  6:33 PM Reply with quote
As-Salaamu Alaikum Samsher Ali,

I would like to know if you consider all the following as a part of essential practices to be performed by us Muslims. We consider these as Sunnah of the prophet [pbuh].

Takbeer e Tehreemah at the beginning of our prayers,
Mentioning God's name and then eating and drinking with the right hand.
Saying "Alhamdulillah" after sneezing and responding to it with "YarhamukAllah".
Saying Adhan in the right ear of a new born baby and saying Iqamah in the left ear.
Slaughtering animals in a way that most of the blood is drained from their bodies.
Shaving the pubic & armpits hair.
Circumcising the male offspring.
Bathing the dead before burial.
Shrouding a dead body.
Burying the dead.
Iqamah before the prayers

Edited by: nauman on Sunday, March 25, 2007 3:58 PM
Nauman

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, December 13, 2005  -  8:32 PM Reply with quote
As-Salaamu Alaikum Samsher Ali,

Thanks for your reply.

>> Quote: Brother, I earlier told again & again that I believe only Qur’an. I do not find or accept any source besides Qur’an as my religious source of Islam.

I know that you accept only what is stated in Quran. I was interested in knowing how do you accept the points, those I raised, in light of the Quran only; because I believe that those are not mentioned there. In this reply I have avoided all those points that you do not even consider essential to be done from your Islamic viewpoint.

>> Quote: MENTION GOD"S NAME on everything you are going to eat. See 5:4, & 6:118-119,

Your mentioned verses deal with the meat of the animals. I was actually asking about mentioning Allah’s name before eating or drinking anything. I do believe that you do pronounce Allah’s name before eating and also eat with your right hand, don’t you. That is what I do not see in Quran.

>> Quote: God Almighty knows many Muslims will be living in the middle of Christians and Jews and will be sharing their food and for this reason God told the Prophet Muhammed more than 1400 years ago, the following;

"Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture (Jews & Christians) is LAWFUL (HALAL) for you......"5:5

I think there is another verse that you also mentioned before i.e. 6:118.

Therefore eat of that on which Allah's name has been mentioned if you are believers in His communications. 6:118

Do you believe that the Christian pronounce God’s name before slaughter? I do not think so. The animal should be slaughtered in the name of God only. I do not find any difference between the slaughter meat by Christians and dead meat now days.

>> Quote: Do Jews and Christian slaughter their animals as you mentioned above?

In present times Jews do. You must have known the word “kosher”. Yes I do believe that the Jews as well as Christian of prophet Muhammad ‘s [pbuh] time pronounce the name of God and also slaughter the animal as well. As I said it before otherwise there is no difference between the dead meat and the meat on which the God’s name is pronounced.

>> Quote: Takbeer e Tehreemah at the beginning of our prayers. Iqamah before the prayers.
Reply:- Could you please tell me what are these?

Takbeer e Tehreemah: It is a beginning of the prayers by raising both hands up to the shoulders or ears and uttering “Allah-o-Akbar”.

Iqaamah is the announcement of the commencement of a prayer behind Imam in a group.

I do believe that you do the same also; why?


Edited by: ibrahim on Monday, January 30, 2006 8:21 AM
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, December 19, 2005  -  11:49 AM Reply with quote
Salam,
Quote:- Your mentioned verses deal with the meat of the animals. I was actually asking about mentioning Allah’s name before eating or drinking anything. I do believe that you do pronounce Allah’s name before eating and also eat with your right hand, don’t you. That is what I do not see in Quran.
Reply: - No brother the verses 6:118 & 119 do not only deal with the meat of the animals but also all kind of foods. Please see once again;

"YOU SHALL EAT FROM THAT UPON WHICH GOD'S NAME HAS BEEN PRONOUNCED, if you truly believe in His revelation." 6:118

"WHY SHOULD YOU NOT EAT FROM THAT UPON WHICH GOD'S NAME HAS BEEN MENTIONED ? He has DETAILED for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors." 6:119.

The corrupt Muslims have substituted God's condition for making food lawful (which is through uttering God's name on it before eating it) by a new un-Quranic condition of their own making. Somehow they have made slaughtering the ONLY lawful method of killing an animal for its meat. Needless to say, there is no such restriction in the Quran. As a result of this corrupt restriction, they insist that to make food Halal the name of God must be uttered on it before slaughtering it. The following arguments all show that this imposed restriction is false and that it is not part of God's law in the Quran:

1- The first reason is that (unless you are a butcher ) you are not the person who slaughtered the animal .... and since the Quran is clear in holding people accountable ONLY to what they did personally, then the only certain way to confirm that the name of God has been uttered on the meat is for each person to utter God's name on the food before eating it.

"Every human being is responsible only for his own works." 53:39

2- The spiritual reason behind uttering God's name on our food before eating it is given in 16:114. This is to constantly remember and be appreciative of God's blessings on us:

"Therefore, you shall eat from God's provisions everything that is lawful and good, and BE APPRECIATIVE OF GOD'S BLESSINGS, if you do worship Him alone." 16:114

This act of appreciation for God's blessings would not be genuine and heart felt if we rely on someone else uttering God's name somewhere in the slaughter house.

3- By reading 6:114, we note that the command of uttering God's name is related to what we eat in general and not just meat. The command in the verse means that we should utter God's name (appreciative of God’s blessings) on all food before eating it and not just meat. This includes fruit, vegetables, or even snacks like biscuits or peanuts ... etc. Consequently, and since we cannot slaughter fruit nor peanuts, the only method to obey God's law is to utter His name before eating all foods.

4- If we read 5:5, we note that God made it lawful for us to eat the food of the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians). But as the Christians in particular do not say the name of God before slaughtering, yet their food is lawful for us (5:5), this can only mean that the duty is laid on each of us before eating our food and nothing else.

God knows that one day these slaughter houses will be run by machines and computers. He assigned the responsibility to every true Muslim to mention His name on his /her food.

Sadly, we see many Muslims today, and because of their obsession with the restriction of slaughtering, buying and gulping what they are told is halal meat, yet when they eat other food (e.g. fruit or vegetables) they ignore God's command to utter His name on it. Hence, and since they ignored God's commands and followed man made innovations they in fact are eating a lot of food that according to the Quran is unlawful.

So the mentioned verses do not tell us that we should only pronounce God’s name when we eat the meat of the animals. Rather we should pronounce GOD"S NAME on everything we are going to eat.

Quote: Do you believe that the Christian pronounce God’s name before slaughter? I do not think so. The animal should be slaughtered in the name of God only. I do not find any difference between the slaughter meat by Christians and dead meat now days.
Reply : Above.
Quote: Takbeer e Tehreemah: It is a beginning of the prayers by raising both hands up to the shoulders or ears and uttering “Allah-o-Akbar”.
Reply:- We must comprehend the meaning of our prayers, as these are the moments in which we communicate directly with the GOD(4:43). We must be reverent during our contact prayers(23:2). Alongwith understanding what we say we can recall one of Gods atrivutes, depending on our need and condition during the time of our prayer(17:111). The prayer is to commemorate God and God alone96:162, 20:14, 29:45). Prayer is to praise, exalt and remember His greatness, His mercy and ultimately our dependence on each of these attributes(1:1-7,17:111, 2:45). Now I ask you suppose if anyone does not raise his hands upto his shoulder or ears at the beginning of his prayers, then according to the Qur’an will his prayer be nullified? I don’t think so.
Quote:- Iqaamah is the announcement of the commencement of a prayer behind Imam in a group.
Reply :- I think this is a system but not obligatory. Also I don’t see any violation of any Qur’anic command if we do it except mentioning Muhammad’s name.
Salam,
Samsher

Edited by: ibrahim on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:11 AM
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, January 07, 2006  -  11:41 AM Reply with quote
Dear Skysamsherali.

There is a news for you that Your peoples have updated the nos, of prayers from three to five.And Nos. of Rakah for five times prayers is also taken as 2,4,4,3,4
Have a look and reply please.


Introduction
 The contact prayer was given to the Prophet Abraham and passed on to us from generation to generation.
 The prayer existed before Muhammad. Muhammad's sole mission was to deliver the Quran.
 There is no dispute concerning the number of units in all five daily prayers.
 The Quran's mathematical code confirms the number of units in the five prayers 2,4,4,3 and 4 respectively.
 The Quran deals only with practices that were distorted, for example, the voice tone during the prayer.

1. The Dawn Prayer must be observed during two hours before sunrise [11:114], [24:58].
2. The Noon Prayer is due when the sun declines from its highest point at noon [17:78].
3. The Afternoon Prayer can be observed during the 3-4 hours preceding sunset [2:238].
4. The Sunset Prayer is due after sunset [11:114].
5. The Night Prayer can be observed after the twilight disappears from the sky [24:58].
The Friday noon congregational prayer is an obligatory duty of every Submitting man and woman [62:9]. Failure to observe the Friday Prayer is a gross offense.


http://www.submission.org/salat19.html

Watch and Listen to R.K regarding the prayer.He saying that Nos. of prayers in day are five?????????????.While you were all the time keep saying three.I need your response on this please.

Video Recordings by Dr. Rashad Khalifa

Contact Prayer Part-1 and Part-2

http://www.submissiontv.com/


Allah Hafiz
Zulfee

USA
Posted - Sunday, January 08, 2006  -  7:43 AM Reply with quote
Quote: Understand Our Basis of Our Pt. of View regarding SUNNAH b4 denying it. I'm sorry to SAY but I feel that at the Moment U r JUST denying it & NOT even understanding OUR Aurguments. Well SURELY u've the RIGHT to DENY anything U want to BUT my REQUEST is that PLZ try to understand MY Pt. of View on MY BASIS not on ur BASIS.

If we say you to understand our point of view why you are reluctant? Why do you want to make other to understand your point of view not those of others? Our point of view is very, very and very simple that is the example of “Official rights of Mr. Zulfee as the chief executive in his office NEVER, NEVER and NEVER in his home and his personal affairs” quoted earlier in some post of this forum. People denying this simple fact is beating about the bushes to lengthen the discussion to support the way of adulterating and corrupting the religion deliberately.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Friday, January 13, 2006  -  10:18 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

Please go through and read:

http://www.quran-islam.org/178.html

According to verse 3:81, the duty of the messenger of covenant was to confirm the existing scripture i.e. to confirm the Qur'an.

As a man he could do many things e.g. he might be said that the format of contact prayer is 24434 or so(I don't know whether he opined this or not). But we should remember if the Holy Qur'an does not support this format then we should never follow this, because we should follow only Qur'an and Qur'an says that the number of contact prayer is 3(three) and also there is no 'Raka' system.


In order to enable the messengers to accomplish their asigned mission, God blesses His messengers with wisdom and the knowledge of the scripture:

"(Blessings) such as the sending of a messenger from among you to recite our revelations to you, purify you, TEACH YOU THE SCRIPTURE AND WISDOM, and to teach you what you never knew." 2:151


"Our Lord, and raise among them a messenger to recite to them Your revelations, TEACH THEM THE SCRIPTURE AND WISDOM, and purify them. You are the Almighty, Most Wise." 2:129


"When Jesus went with the proofs, he said, "I BRING TO YOU WISDOM, and to clarify some of the matters in which you dispute. You shall reverence GOD and obey me." 43:63


Other verses speak of the same truth, how God endows His messengers with wisdom (Joseph 12:22), (Lot 21:74), (Moses 28:14), (David 38:20) ...... and so on.


However, the Quran also emphasises that His messengers are NOT infallible. They are apt to do mistakes just like everyone else. Many examples are given in the Quran for specific mistakes committed by various messengers and prophets. We note that Muhammad is reprimanded in the Quran six times for mistakes he committed. Mistakes for other messengers include Moses killing an innocent man, Jonah abandoning God's mission half way through its completion, Solomon forgetting his prayer, Joseph (when he was in prison) putting his trust and fate in the ruler's hand when he should have trusted that God is the Only One to decide his fate.


Perhaps, the principal reason we are told of these mistakes in the Quran is to establish the fact that God's messengers are human beings like all of us and that they should NOT be idolised.


"Say (O Muhammad), "I AM NO MORE THAN A HUMAN LIKE YOU, being inspired that your god is one god. Those who hope to meet their Lord shall work righteousness, and never worship any other god beside his Lord." 18:110

Salam
Samsher

quote:

Dear Skysamsherali.

There is a news for you that Your peoples have updated the nos, of prayers from three to five.And Nos. of Rakah for five times prayers is also taken as 2,4,4,3,4
Have a look and reply please.


Introduction
 The contact prayer was given to the Prophet Abraham and passed on to us from generation to generation.
 The prayer existed before Muhammad. Muhammad's sole mission was to deliver the Quran.
 There is no dispute concerning the number of units in all five daily prayers.
 The Quran's mathematical code confirms the number of units in the five prayers 2,4,4,3 and 4 respectively.
 The Quran deals only with practices that were distorted, for example, the voice tone during the prayer.

1. The Dawn Prayer must be observed during two hours before sunrise [11:114], [24:58].
2. The Noon Prayer is due when the sun declines from its highest point at noon [17:78].
3. The Afternoon Prayer can be observed during the 3-4 hours preceding sunset [2:238].
4. The Sunset Prayer is due after sunset [11:114].
5. The Night Prayer can be observed after the twilight disappears from the sky [24:58].
The Friday noon congregational prayer is an obligatory duty of every Submitting man and woman [62:9]. Failure to observe the Friday Prayer is a gross offense.


http://www.submission.org/salat19.html

Watch and Listen to R.K regarding the prayer.He saying that Nos. of prayers in day are five?????????????.While you were all the time keep saying three.I need your response on this please.

Video Recordings by Dr. Rashad Khalifa

Contact Prayer Part-1 and Part-2

http://www.submissiontv.com/


Allah Hafiz
Nauman

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, January 14, 2006  -  2:28 PM Reply with quote
As-Salaamu Alaikum All,

After looking at the steadfastness that Mr. Samsher Ali has shown until now, it reminds me the verse of Ghalib.

Wafa-dari ba-shart-i-ustwari shart hai
Mare butkhanay may to garho Kaaba may Brahmin ko.

Loyalty with steadfastness is all that is required
If a Brahmin serves his temple well, bury him in the Kaaba

No Offense At All.

Edited by: nauman on Saturday, March 24, 2007 3:21 PM
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, January 16, 2006  -  10:05 AM Reply with quote
Salam brother Nauman,


Please read the following verses of the Nobel Qur’an and try to understand what should OR should not do to get the ‘Jannah’(Heaven).


[4:36] You shall worship GOD alone - do not associate anything with Him. You shall regard the parents, the relatives, the orphans, the poor, the related neighbor, the unrelated neighbor, the close associate, the traveling alien, and your servants. GOD does not like the arrogant show-offs.


[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.


[5:69] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.


What is Righteousness? To get the answer please read the following verse;


[2:177] Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those;

(a)who believe in GOD,
(b) the Last Day,
(c) the angels,
(d) the scripture,
(e) and the prophets;
(d)and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves;
(e)and they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and
(f)give the obligatory charity (Zakat); and
(g)they keep their word whenever they make a promise; and
(h)they steadfastly persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and war.

These are THE TRUTHFUL; these are THE RIGHTEOUS.


[6:151] Say, "Come let me tell you what your Lord has really prohibited for you: You shall not set up idols besides Him. You shall honor your parents. You shall not kill your children from fear of poverty - we provide for you and for them. You shall not commit gross sins, obvious or hidden. You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."


[6:152] You shall not touch the orphans' money except in the most righteous manner, until they reach maturity. You shall give full weight and full measure when you trade, equitably. We do not burden any soul beyond its means. You shall be absolutely just when you bear witness, even against your relatives. You shall fulfill your covenant with GOD. These are His commandments to you, that you may take heed.


[6:153] This is My path - a straight one. You shall follow it, and do not follow any other paths, lest they divert you from His path. These are His commandments to you, that you may be saved.


Salam,
Samsher
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, January 16, 2006  -  11:30 AM Reply with quote
Dear Skysamsherali

Quote:-Almighty Allah would have told here that “he was the final messenger and prophet of GOD” OR He would have told that “ he was the final prophet of GOD”. But he did not. Why? Why HE used the word ‘final’ before the word prophet and not before the word messenger? This is not coincidence brother. He used the word ‘final’ before the word prophet and not before the word messenger, because messenger will come after Muhammad. So simple.

>>> Brother Samsher Here I am posting some one's point of view in this regards.Have a look please

MUHAMMED WAS THE LAST PROPHET. BUT WHY NOT THE LAST MESSENGER?
Koran clearly states that Muhammed was the last prophet and a messenger of God . Some people argue that since Koran doesn’t state that Muhammed was the final messenger that means that there are more messengers to come . So who are those messengers? I believe that they misinterpret the word “messenger”. They think that only a human can be a messenger. But that is a wrong idea according to the Koran which tells us that beings other than humans can also be messengers(not prophets . only humans can be prophets ) :

Non human messengers

The angels of death are also called messengers :

[6:61] He is the Omnipotent over His slaves. He sendeth guardians over you until, when death cometh unto one of you, Our messengers receive him, and they neglect not.

[7:37] Who doeth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie concerning Allah or denieth Our tokens. (For such) their appointed portion of the Book (of destiny) reacheth them till, when Our messengers come to gather them, they say: Where (now) is that to which ye cried beside Allah? They say: They have departed from us. And they testify against themselves that they were disbelievers.

The servants(probably angels?) of God who record our every move are also called messengers :

[10:21] And when We cause mankind to taste of mercy after some adversity which had afflicted them, behold! they have some plot against Our revelations. Say: Allah is more swift in plotting. Lo! Our messengers write down that which ye plot.

Gabriel also functions as a messenger who brought down the Koran to the prophet’s heart .

[2:97] Say (O Muhammad, to mankind): Who is an enemy to Gabriel! For he it is who hath revealed (this Scripture) to thy heart by Allah's leave, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, and a guidance and glad tidings to believers;

[26:192-194] And lo! it is a revelation of the Lord of the Worlds, Which the True Spirit hath brought down upon thy heart, that thou mayest be (one) of the warners,

[2:98] Who is an enemy to Allah, and His angels and His messengers, and Gabriel and Michael! Then, lo! Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers.

The Koran has also been called a messenger in 65:11, not prophet, all messengers are not prophets . prophets are those humans ,as explained before, who bring scriptures , while the Koran is the scripture :

[65:10-11] Allah hath prepared for them stern punishment; so keep your duty to Allah, O men of understanding! O ye who believe! Now Allah hath sent down unto you a reminder, A messenger(Koran) reciting unto you the revelations of Allah made plain, that He may bring forth those who believe and do good works from darkness unto light.

so we see that Muhammed was the last prophet, but he could not have been the last messenger in the presence of so many other messengers .The angels of death , Gabriel , the Koran etc are all messengers . It is only in this way that Muhammed was not the last messenger . We also see that angels ,Koran etc are called messengers not prophets . That is because only a human can be a prophet messenger(am I being repetitive?) . In the Koran only the human messengers are called prophets, for example : 19:30, 19:41 ,19:49 ,19:53 ,19:56 … and Muhammed was the final prophet (human messenger) .
Now we see that a prophet is one among many types of messengers of God .

What we learn from the Koran .
1. Prophets are only one type of messengers of God ,among many others types(for example angels of deaths , Gabriel etc). ie all prophets are messengers but all messengers are not necessarily prophets or humans .
2. Only human messengers are called prophets.
3. Prophets brought scriptures.
4. Muhammed was the last prophet , but ,due to the presence of so many non human messengers, not the last messenger.
5. So expect no more human messengers(prophets).

[6:93] Who is guilty of more wrong than he who forgeth a lie against Allah, or saith : I am inspired, when he is not inspired in aught; and who saith: I will reveal the like of that which Allah hath revealed? If thou couldst see, when the wrong doers reach the pangs of death and the angels stretch their hands out, saying: Deliver up your souls. This day ye are awarded doom of degradation for that ye spake concerning Allah other than the truth, and scorned His portents.
_________________

Allah Hafiz
Sohail Usmani
Karachi-Pakistan
Nauman

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, January 16, 2006  -  11:53 AM Reply with quote
Walaikum As-Salaam Mr. Shamsher Ali,

The verses of Ghalib actually praising the loyalty with steadfastness of Brahmin towards his temple i.e. total submission without any doubt and hypocrisy. Brahmin here truly believes that this is what God wants him to do and he has achieved that level of submission that even he deserves to be buried in Kaaba.

What I have derived from all of your posts is that you are not one of those who need to be told about Islam i.e. who lacks in Islamic knowledge per se. In fact you have chosen to adhere to Quran only yourself.

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