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hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, June 07, 2007  -  6:42 AM Reply with quote
(some facts from recorded history)

The Holy Qur’an states:
ينِكِرشمْلا نِم َناَك امو اًفيِنح ميِهاربِإ َةَّلِم عِبتا ْنَأ كيَلِإ انيحوَأ مُث )١٢٣:١٦(

And then we revealed unto you [the command] to follow the religion of Abraham, who was steadfast and was not one of the polytheists. (16:123)

History of pre-Islamic Arabia is rich with frequent references to a number of religious and social practices which, the Arabs proudly attributed to their forefather Abraham (sws).
It is however apparent that these practices were transformed during the centuries of post-Abrahamic era. The transformations were largely the result of weakening of traditions and the gradual adoption of polytheistic ideas and rituals.

The verse of the Holy Qur’an quoted above stipulates that the Holy Prophet (sws) was to follow the Abrahamic Tradition. The Holy Prophet (sws) therefore gradually re-introduced these practices in their true spirit. He modified, amended and revived them, and induced his followers to practice them meticulously. These practices constitute the Sunnah, and were widely promoted and emphasized by the Holy Prophet (sws). He ensured that his immediate followers adopted them fully and perfectly.


iii. History
The Sunnah, in the present form, begins with the Holy Prophet (sws). The form, in which these practices existed before the Holy Prophet (sws), does not form an authentic source. It is evident from the pre-Islamic Arabian history that a lot of alterations in the rituals and spirit of the Sunnah had been affected. The Holy Prophet (sws), under the instructions of Allah, identified the genuine ones, reintroduced the practices that had died down, and reformed the practices that had been corrupted.

These practices were widely adopted because of their religious and historical importance, which becomes evident in the light of the following:

contd:
(adapted from SI courses)
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, June 21, 2007  -  7:30 AM Reply with quote
salam R;to see you back.where hv you been...we thought we lost you were missing your 'Wrong!!s' :)

contd:

•Emphasis laid on Sunan by the Holy Prophet (sws):

The Holy Prophet (sws) instituted these acts as integral part of the religion he preached and ensured that these practices were widely disseminated among his Companions (rta). These were to be strictly observed by all the Companions (rta) and the later generations. Most of them belong to everyday life, relate to acts that are performed in the public and are performed repeatedly on a regular basis. They are instantly visible in a Muslim’s everyday life and in Muslim communities.

The Holy Prophet (sws) emphasized upon the importance of these practices just as he emphasized on the need for the preservation and dissemination of the Holy Qur’an.


• The strict compliance of Sunan demonstrated by the Companions (rta) of the Holy Prophet (sws):

Because of the importance attached to the Sunan by the Holy Prophet (sws), the entire community of the Companions (rta) of the Holy Prophet (sws) realized the paramount significance of these Sunan in the Islamic way of life and adopted them. Sunan thus became an integral part of the lives of the first generation of the Holy Prophet’s followers.

• Perpetuation of the Sunan by the Companions (rta) of the Holy Prophet (sws):

The Companions (rta) taught these Sunan to all their children and to all Muslim converts. With the rapid expansion of the Muslim rule the Companions (rta) dispersed far and wide in different corners of the world. They carried these practices with them to whichever part of the world they went. They themselves became models of these Sunan and preached and propagated these like they propagated the Holy Qur’an. They carried with them the teachings of the Holy Prophet (sws) that exalt any person who revives a Sunnah that has fallen out of practice.

(adapted from studying islam courses)

contd:
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, June 21, 2007  -  11:40 AM Reply with quote
Salam to All,

•Emphasis laid on Sunan by the Holy Prophet (sws):

Q:- The Holy Prophet (sws) instituted these acts as integral part of the religion

R:- Those acts, which are not found in Qur’an brother????

Q:- he preached and ensured that these practices were widely disseminated among his Companions (rta).

R:- He preached only Qur’an. He preached the practices which were found only in Qur’an OR which were supported only by Qur’an.

Q:- Most of them belong to everyday life, relate to acts that are performed in the public and are performed repeatedly on a regular basis. They are instantly visible in a Muslim’s everyday life and in Muslim communities.

R:- If Qur’an does not support the above practices (i.e. taking them as religious law), then these practices must not be considered as Islamic religious law, because Qur’an is FULLY DETAILED, COMPLETE & PERFECT AND ALSO WE SHOULD NOT TAKE ANYTHING AS SOURCE OF LAW BESIDES QUR’AN.

Q:- The Holy Prophet (sws) emphasized upon the importance of these practices

R:- This is your WHIMSICAL OPINION and it has no support in Qur’an.

The only Sunnah is Almighty God’s Sunnah. There is no mention of Muhammad’s Sunnah in the Whole Qur’an. Muhammad’s practiced Only Qur’an. So literally Muhammad’s sunnah is Only Qur’an and nothing else.

So the idea of Muhammad’s Sunnah existed separately BESIDES QUR’AN is completely a WRONG IDEA and not related to Islam.

Samsher, India.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, June 24, 2007  -  10:22 PM Reply with quote
dear 'Wrong' brothers it does not help just to denounce the facts as 'Wrong! Wrong!' without reasonable evidence and logic.

the reasons and evidence has been repeated presented on this forum along with references in the relevant courses of this website-in favour of Muhammad sws being the fountain of deen; not only because of the fact that Qur'an was revealed to him but also because he ratified the teachings and practices of the chain of the prophets sws who came before him and he introduced them as deen-finally he made arrangements to perpetuate these practices and Qur'an onto the generatins untill this world exists.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Sunday, June 24, 2007  -  10:32 PM Reply with quote
contd:

• The living tradition of the Sunnah since then:

Successive generations of Muslim community thus adopted them with consensus and passed them on to us as a living tradition in a reliable manner, as integral components of the faith. The verdict of history is clear and definite – the Muslims in all ages have clung to these practices without fail and have been unanimous in submitting to their sanctity and importance in Islam. Any attempt to tamper with these or to discontinue them was seriously taken by the scholars and laymen alike. Similarly, any attempt to add any innovations to the received and accepted set of Sunan also met grave reaction from all.



iv. Transmission


We have received these Sunan through the consensus of the Companions (rta) of the Holy Prophet (sws) and, since the age of the Companions, every subsequent generation has faithfully preserved them and handed over to the next in large numbers. The Sunan relate to those areas of our practical lives about which we are sure that no interruption in these practices is possible in history. For example, in the communities, people keep on dying and children are being born. The dead are thus washed and buried and all male children are circumcised. It is impossible that these proceedings could have remained suspended for any considerable time or one of the generations could have missed them. History shows that all these practices were followed by vast majority of each generation of Muslims. Even an attempt to affect the slightest of change or innovation in these Sunan was strongly
resisted and harshly criticized by the Ummah.

contd:

(adapted from Studying Islam courses)
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, June 26, 2007  -  10:09 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

Q:- dear 'Wrong' brothers it does not help just to denounce the facts as 'Wrong! Wrong!' without reasonable evidence and logic.


R:- Evidences are existed in Qur’an. Qur’an informs us that Muhammad preached only Qur’an, he only practiced It, he took only It as his source of law etc..etc.. So if any one can’t see these evidences, which are existed in Qur’an, then definitely he is none other than a blind one.


The only religious source of Islam( for us) is Only Qur’an according to the claim of IT(Qur’an).

I think you people now invented your another new source of Islamic law namely ‘adapted fromStudy Islam Course’… Alas!!! What an example of a ‘true muslim’(???)!!!!!


Samsher
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, June 26, 2007  -  11:02 PM Reply with quote
quote:

I think you people now invented your another new source of Islamic law namely ‘adapted fromStudy Islam Course’… Alas!!! What an example of a ‘true muslim’(???)!!!!!


No doubt It will one day (although for some it already is) become divine & part of Islam as the so called non Quranic Sunnah and hadith
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, July 05, 2007  -  9:21 AM Reply with quote
I think we all are trying to say the same thing but in different manners.
We all agree that Muhammad's sws were not different from the teachings of Qur'an.
We cannot call them non Qur'anic; the practices have reached us in continuation as explained before.


contd:
The initiation of these practices by the Holy Prophet (sws) and their subsequent communication from generation to generation by hundreds of thousands of people means that Sunan have reached down to us through Tawatur just like the Holy Qur’an. However the mode of Tawatur is different. Unlike the oral or documentary Tawa#tur of the Holy Qur’an, the Sunnah has reached us through Tawatur i Amali or Tawatur in Practice of the Ummah.
The Muslim position is clear. They hold with certainty that the Holy Prophet (sws) himself instituted these practices. Since their institution, they have been safely and faithfully conveyed to us through the historical process of generation-to-generation communication, involving hundreds of thousands of people in every generation. People practiced the Sunan and religiously transmitted these to the next generation.
Mujahid

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, July 05, 2007  -  12:47 PM Reply with quote
My questions to the brothers/sisters who do not believe in sunnah is that how do they say their prayers,if only they believe that 'salah'(five daily prayers) is an essential part of islam?or do you interpret the word salah in Quran the way Ghulam Ahmad pervez sb(late) did?
Certainly,just from Quran no one can say prayers the way entire muslim ummah says it barring ofcourse a few heretic and insignificant groups.
I am really intrigued by this approach and would certainly want to understand it.Just to let these brothers and sisters know that i have had the privilige of visiting 'Idara e Tulu e islam' of Pervaiz sb in Lahore during the days of my quest for truth.Unfortunately i could never meet pervaiz sb who had died in 1986 but am well aware of his line of thinking.
I will be very grateful if someone could answer my question.
regards
imran776

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, July 06, 2007  -  10:04 AM Reply with quote
AOA All,

Few things worth mentionig here are:

a) Is Quran the first and only book from God? If the answer is no then the whole context must be in front of us to underdtand it. It has a background and a very long history of Shariah, prophet, books (from God).
b) Things which can reach us thorugh Sunnah are all of practical nature like Salah, Hajj, Fasting etc. If we read all about this in Quran there are two points that one will notice:
- Quran doesn't seem to be initiating those ritual, rather it will simply ask Muslims to offer their prayers. Keeping in mind the audience of this Quran at this time, which includes worst enemies of Prophet (PBUH) there was no objection raised on all these terminologies which proves not only the presence of concept but also the implementation (i am not denying the introductions of any bidahs) details at mass .
- Secondly with some rituals it will give some directives regarding the actual act which were mainly to remove the bidahs being introuduced by people over the period of time.
If we also look at the religious acts of people even before the announcement of prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH) many people were regular in Salah. Even Prophet performed Haj.
So the issue is not that those Sunnahs came from Prophet (PBUH).The sunnah is prior to Quran (means in terms of introduction). Qurash were not only familiar wit it but they were following it as a shariah of Ibrahim and then after approval, ammendation and rectificaton from Prophet they became final until the rest of the world.

W/salaam
Imran
Mujahid

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, July 06, 2007  -  2:33 PM Reply with quote
Dear Imran,
I totally agree with you on your explanation and position of Sunnah and Quran.I am actually waiting eagerly for either Skshamsherali or perv1 to answer my question on salah.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, July 09, 2007  -  11:58 AM Reply with quote
As-salamualayakum,

Quote:- I think we all are trying to say the same thing but in different manners.
We all agree that Muhammad's sws were not different from the teachings of Qur'an.
We cannot call them non Qur'anic; the practices have reached us in continuation as explained before.


Reply:- Then it can also be concluded (as per your opinion) that the teachings of Qur’an are not different from the practices(religious matters) of Muhammad and Qur’an teaches us that we should offer our regular salat in Moderate(audible) tone. So naturally Muhammad followed this. Then why do you offer your regular salat by maintaining Mixed tone,(for an example) completely violating the quranic teachings, which were not the practice of Muhammad??? Brother, don’t try to fix a label to non-quranic practices as Muhammad’s practices and also don’t give lame excuse that these non-quranic practice is the teachings of Muhammad AS they reached us through Continuity. I told several times that Continuity is not any criterion of Islam. The one & only Criterion of Islam is ONLY QUR’AN according to the claim of IT(Qur’an) [25:1]


Quote:- My questions to the brothers/sisters who do not believe in sunnah is that how do they say their prayers,if only they believe that 'salah'(five daily prayers) is an essential part of islam?or do you interpret the word salah in Quran the way Ghulam Ahmad pervez sb(late) did?
Certainly,just from Quran no one can say prayers the way entire muslim ummah says it barring ofcourse a few heretic and insignificant groups.
I am really intrigued by this approach and would certainly want to understand it.Just to let these brothers and sisters know that i have had the privilige of visiting 'Idara e Tulu e islam' of Pervaiz sb in Lahore during the days of my quest for truth.Unfortunately i could never meet pervaiz sb who had died in 1986 but am well aware of his line of thinking.
I will be very grateful if someone could answer my question.


Reply:- Firstly, You say what does mean to say ‘Sunnah’? Do you think that ‘Sunnah’ practices of Muhammad, were different from the teachings of Qur’an? I think Muhammad followed and practiced the Qur’an even without slightest alteration. So Muhammad’s Sunnah was Only Qur’an. So the fabricated sunnah, which have no references in the Qur’an, were not his sunnah e.g. offering daily salat in Mixed tone. This is the TRUTH, because Muhammad did not follow anything besides Qur’an AS HIS RELIGIOUS SOURCE and also QUR’AN IS COMPLETE, FULLY DETAILED & PERFECT.(6:114-115). I hope that you know very well the meaning of bold underlined sentence above.

You tried to claim that ‘from Qur’an no one can say salat means prayers’!!! Alas!!! Then brother, how could you know that ‘Salah’ means Prayer?? Who told you that?? Is it your Hadith(fabricated)?? Also do you think that Almighty God ordered us in the Qur’an that we should offer regular Salat, if we want to be redeemed, but He did not tell us in the said Qur’an how to offer it, when He also claimed in the same Qur’an that It(Qur’an) is COMPLETE, FULLY DETAILED, PERFECT etc..etc..!!! Brother, do you not think that it is totally illogical. Think deeply brother.


Samsher, India.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, July 09, 2007  -  12:00 PM Reply with quote
As-salamualayakum,

Quote:-

a) Is Quran the first and only book from God? If the answer is no then the whole context must be in front of us to underdtand it. It has a background and a very long history of Shariah, prophet, books (from God).
b) Things which can reach us thorugh Sunnah are all of practical nature like Salah, Hajj, Fasting etc. If we read all about this in Quran there are two points that one will notice:
- Quran doesn't seem to be initiating those ritual, rather it will simply ask Muslims to offer their prayers. Keeping in mind the audience of this Quran at this time, which includes worst enemies of Prophet (PBUH) there was no objection raised on all these terminologies which proves not only the presence of concept but also the implementation (i am not denying the introductions of any bidahs) details at mass .
- Secondly with some rituals it will give some directives regarding the actual act which were mainly to remove the bidahs being introuduced by people over the period of time.
If we also look at the religious acts of people even before the announcement of prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH) many people were regular in Salah. Even Prophet performed Haj.
So the issue is not that those Sunnahs came from Prophet (PBUH).The sunnah is prior to Quran (means in terms of introduction). Qurash were not only familiar wit it but they were following it as a shariah of Ibrahim and then after approval, ammendation and rectificaton from Prophet they became final until the rest of the world.

Reply:-

Brother Imran, please try to give your opinion reg. religion on the basis of Qur’an only, not on the basis of any other fabricated sources. The Qur’an rejects your above opinion. Please see below;

The Quran confirms that the practices of Islam are older than the Quran:

"We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat). To us, they were devoted worshipers."21:73

According to 21:73 and other verses we are told that the rituals of Islam are older than the Quran and that they were indeed first given to Abraham. However, the words in the verse do NOT say that what we have inherited today, or what was practised at the time of Muhammad, are the pure rituals as given to Abraham without being corrupted.

To analyse the truth of whether we are accountable to what was decreed for Abraham and those before us it is necessary to read the following verse:

"Then We revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed different ‘Shira’a wa minhaja’ (laws and rites). Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To God is your final destiny-all of you-then He will inform you of everything you had disputed." 5:48

Here we note 3 very important messages:

1-

"We revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations"

These words confirm that we are commanded to follow what was revealed to us (Quran) and NOTHING else ….. In this verse the Quran is given the function of "confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them" ……. This asserts the fact that what was given to those before us has now been replaced by the Quran. We are thus accountable only to what is revealed to us (Quran) …. And not what was given to Abraham or the others. To insist that we are following rituals that we inherited from as far back as Abraham is in violation of the words "superseding them" that describe the Quran in 5:48

2-

The words "For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites." tell us that the rituals given to each people (including us) are not identical to the ones given to those before them. As a result, and although we all follow the same creed of Monotheism and submission to God (Islam), yet the specific rituals and practices are different for different people.

3-

Moreover, the words "He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you." tell us a truly important matter. Here we are told that even though some (or all) of the rituals may have been passed down to us from those who came before us, yet God will test us and hold us accountable by means of the revelation He revealed to us (Quran) and NOT what was given to those before us. According to these words in 5:48, we shall be tested by the laws, regulations and rites that were given to us in the Quran, and NOT what we inherited from those before us.

to be continued....
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, July 09, 2007  -  12:02 PM Reply with quote
Contd…

Not only did God inform us that each people were given a different set of ‘Shira’a wa minhaja’ (laws), but also that every people were given different RITUALS:

"For each congregation, we have decreed 'Mansakan' (set of rituals/rites) that they must uphold. Therefore, they should not dispute with you. You shall continue to invite everyone to your Lord. Most assuredly, you are on the right path." 22:67 (also 22:34).

We note that the word 'Mansakan', which is used in this verse, is different from the words which are used in 5:48. While as the words ‘Shira’a wa minhaja’ may be related to the laws explaining the methodology of performing the rituals, the word 'Mansakan' is speaking of the RITUALS themselves. We are told that these are not the same for different people. Consequently to claim that we are to follow the exact rituals that were given to Abraham is in violation with 22:67.

Now let us take a closer a look at verses 67 to 72 of Sura 22:

"For each 'ummah' (nation), we have decreed 'Mansakan' (set of rituals/rites) that they must uphold. Therefore, they should not dispute with you. You shall continue to invite everyone to your Lord. Most assuredly, you are on the right path.

If they argue with you, then say, "God is fully aware of everything you do."

God will judge among you on the Day of Resurrection regarding all your disputes.

Do you not realize that God knows everything in the heavens and everything on earth? All this is recorded in a record. This is easy for God to do.

Yet, they idolize beside God idols wherein He placed no power, and they know nothing about them. The transgressors have no helper.

When our revelations are recited to them, clearly, you recognize wickedness on the faces of those who disbelieve. They almost attack those who recite our revelations to them. Say, "Shall I inform you of something much worse? Hell is promised by God for those who disbelieve; what a miserable destiny."

We Note from these glorious verses a number of important messages:

1- As mentioned the word 'Mansakan' speaks of rituals and how they are not the same for every people.

2- The words "If they argue with you, then say, "God is fully aware of everything you do" are indeed very significant. The question is 'why would the disbelievers argue with the believers in this context?' ..... the reply is that they will argue with them because the believers choose to follow the rites given in the Quran and NOTHING else? .... the believers are NOT interested in rites that are inherited to them and labelled (came from Abraham)! ...... the believers believe God .... they are content that the Quran contains ALL the religion they must follow.

3- These words are then followed by yet equally potent words, these are:

"Yet, they idolize beside God idols wherein He placed no power, and they know nothing about them. The transgressors have no helper.."

With these words God is stamping His seal on those people that they are idolising others beside God. All those who do not believe God when He confirms that the Quran contains all our religion with ALL the details, regardless of what was decreed for those before us or what we inherited, they are indeed transgressors. They are following rules and rites from outside the Quran, thus they have set up other gods to follow besides God

If we take a look at the verses leading to 5:48 we note that God holds each receivers of a Scripture accountable only to what they were given in their Scripture, and not to what was given to those before them:

In 5:44 we read that God gave the prophets of Israel the Torah and commanded them to rule with it (Yahkum biha) ..... the last words in the verse give this warning : (those who do not rule with God's revelations are the disbelievers) ....

Then in verse 46 God says that He gave Jesus the Injeel and once again (in verse 47) God repeats the warning He gave to the receivers of the Injeel, the warning about those who do not rule in accordance with the revelation given to them .....

Then (in verses 48 and 49) God tells Muhammad that He gave him the Quran and that he should rule (Bima Anzal Allah) ..... the very first words in verse 48 confirm that (ma Anzal Allah) means the Quran (Kitaab) and nothing else .....

This time the warning of ruling with God's revelations is repeated for us TWICE .... in verse 48 and once again in the first words of verse 49 .......

This warning, together with the confirmation that the Quran supersedes the older Scripture (5:48), confirm that we are not required to follow the previous Scripture which are the source of previous rituals, nor any accounts of what we have inherited, we are only to follow the Quran.

to be continued....
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, July 09, 2007  -  12:04 PM Reply with quote
Contd…

Furthermore, the Quran gives us the the message of our accountability to the Quran (and nothing else) on Judgement in very clear words in the following verse:

"This (Quran) is a message for you and your people which you shall all be accountable to" 43:44

"Such is a community from the past. They are responsible for what they earned, and you are responsible for what you earned. You are not answerable for anything they have done." 2:134

"That was a community from the past. They are responsible for what thay earned, and you are responsible for what you earned. You are not answerable for anything they did." 2:141

The message of these two verses is once again loud and clear. We are not answerable to anything done by those before us, they had their rules and rites and we have ours.

The Quran also states a very important matter in the following verse:

"O you who believe, do not ask about matters which, if revealed to you prematurely, would hurt you. If you ask about them in light of the Quran, they will become obvious to you. God has deliberately overlooked them. God is Forgiver, Clement." 5:101

God confirms to us here that there are some matters that He has deliberately overlooked, and thus they are not required by us (they may have been required from those before us). God also tells us that if we inquire of them IN THE LIGHT OF THE QURAN, that they will be obvious to us.

This Quranic verse assures us yet again that what is NOT IN THE QURAN has been overlooked by God and thus is NOT REQUIRED OF US.

Besides all the above verses, this glorious verse also renders such phrases as 'details of rituals as given to Abraham’ as irrelevant. This as well as God's assurance that NOTHING HAS BEEN LEFT OUT OF THE BOOK (6:38), compels us to accept only the details of the rituals that are given in the Quran. If they are not in the Quran, it is either because God has overlooked them, or because they are a corruption that was never authorised by God.

Were the religious practices given to Abraham preserved, and practised at the time of Muhammad? Are they preserved until today?

If we stick to Quranic evidence we would quickly realise that this claim is totally unfounded.

1- We are told in the Quran of various groups of people at the time of the revelation of the Quran. God mentions the Jews, also the Nasara (Christians) in various verses. God also mentions the idol worshippers who worshipped stone idols (e.g. Allaat and Al-Uzzah …. See 53:19). In all the Quran, there is never a mention of ANY group of believers at the time of Muhammad who followed the pure practices as given to Abraham. To claim that the practices given to Abraham were practiced in their purity at the time of Muhammad is thus an unfounded claim that has no Quranic support whatsoever.

2- We are told in the Quran repeatedly, how the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) have corrupted the scripture given to them (see 4:46, 3:78, 2:75, 5:41). In that light it is hard to see how they could have had a preserved scripture to represent the pure practices and laws that God decreed.

3- We are also told that the rituals, and specifically the prayer, were lost by generations that followed one another …. The claim that the rituals, and specifically the salat, were preserved and passed down generation to generation contradicts the Quranic evidence:

"After them (the prophets of Israel), He substituted generations who lost the Contact Prayers (Salat), and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences." 19:59

Thus the claim that the rituals were preserved and practised at the time of Muhammad is totally without Quranic evidence.

4- We are told in the Quran that although there was some kind of prayer observed by various factions at the kaba (at the time of Muhammad) yet that prayer was totally corrupt:

"Their Contact Prayers (Salat) at the shrine (Ka`bah) were no more than a mockery and a means of repelling the people (by crowding them out). Therefore, suffer the retribution for your disbelief." 8:35

Obviously , a prayer that is described by God as being full of mockery and a means of repelling the people, could hardly be the same Prayer that was given to Abraham. This prayer could not be regarded in any sense as a testimony to the preservation of the salat since Abraham.

Moreover, verse 35 and the verses before it speak specifically about the idol worshippers. Hence the reference to their prayer could not be used to imply that the correct prayer was practised at the time of Muhammad. How could the prayer of idol worshippers be a correct prayer? Yes, it can be said that the Quran informs us that there was some kind of prayer being practiced by the idol worshippers, but in no way does this Salat constitute evidence to

to be continued....
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, July 09, 2007  -  12:05 PM Reply with quote
Contd…..

justify the notion that Muhammad had access to the uncorrupted Salat as given to Abraham from those around him.

One last comment on 8:35. This verse has always been interpreted to be referring to the time of Muhammad fourteen centuries ago. However, with some analysis, it can be seen that this verse applies as much today as it did fourteen centuries ago. It is a fact that the salat today at the kaba is full of idol worship and glorification of Muhammad, but more important the words in the previous verse (8:34) give us some important clues:

"Have they not deserved God's retribution, by repelling others from the Sacred Masjid ......" 8:34

We can see how these words apply today to the authorities who prohibit the believers from observing their Hajj during the four months decreed by God for Hajj (2:197), and instead they restrict the time allowed for Hajj to the first ten days of the month of Zhu Al-Hijjah

Does the Quran only detail laws that have been changed and/or corrupted? Is the Quran merely an ‘Amendment book’ ?

Nowhere in the Quran do we read ANY indication that the Quran only deals with the changes and corruption. As a matter of fact the words ‘fully detailed’ in 6:114, the words ‘nothing has been left out of the book’ in 6:38 and the words that describes the Quran as giving ‘explanation to everything’ in 16:89 all indicate that the Quran contains a complete and comprehensive law, and not just the changes.

If the Quran only deals with the changes as they claim, then God’s command in 6:114 to accept no laws from outside the Quran would necessarily mean that the religion we are following is incomplete, since it would be no more than a collection of amendments and corrections!

To conclude, the attempt by some to reduce God’s assurance that the Quran contains 'all the details' and that ‘nothing has been left out of the book’ to mean (the Quran only deals with the changes/corruption) is indeed a great error.

When God says EVERYTHING He means EVERYTHING …..

The word EVERYTHING indicates that the Quran contains all what we need for salvation, and not just the changes.



The first issue that Islam is as old as Abraham is a Quranic fact, it is not disputed. The second issue, which is the legality of us accepting our inherited rituals as a second source of laws besides the Quran is totally unsupported by any Quranic evidence.

The claim that the rituals have been preserved and passed down to us from the time of Abraham is absolutely without ANY Quranic support. Nowhere in the Quran do we read of such preservation. If anything, we are (and still are everyday) discovering how the rituals we inherited are full of corruption! The only thing guaranteed preservation is the Quran itself (15:9).

To those who say we must also uphold what was authorised by God’s messenger (even if it is not found in the Quran) fall into the realm of 42:21. Moreover, the glaring fact is that the personal teachings of any messenger will also be corrupted and changed with the passing of time. What should the believers in 100 years time do? will the personal teachings of the messenger be preserved then (15:9)? Are the personal teachings of the messenger a scripture (42:21)? Is the messenger authorised to have his own personal teachings (69:44)?

"If you obey THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON EARTH, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess." 6:116

From these Quranic words, we are ascertained that what the majority do or say is always astray from the path of God and that what they follow is no more than conjecture.

Samsher, India

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