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perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, March 09, 2007  -  3:29 PM Reply with quote
Salaam all

quote:

All sects and divisions in Islam, whether Sunni, Shias, Ahmaddis, Ismailli......etc have disagreements about hadith and sunnah attributed to the prophet.


I think this is at the heart of the whole debate.

quote:

However, these same sects have no disagreements about the Quran.

Yes as far I am aware all muslims believe in the same Quran.

quote:

Muslims divide because they follow different sources besides the Quran


So even a child should be able to see that it is the sources besdie the Quran are responsible for the different sects in Islam & yet we still cling to them as though they were divine revelations from God.

My personal opinion is that so called scholars like Mr Ghamdi reject hadith and are well aware of their anti-Islamic nature, but living in countries like Pakistan, are too afraid of the consequences from the bigots if they openly declared their opposition to hadith etc as corrupting influence in Islam but instead choose to muddy the waters with so called Sunnah issue. Which is even more confusing than the hadith and in my opinion just as corruptive as the hadith books.
This sunnah business will yet create another sect(or perhaps has already done so) in Islam.
regards
Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007  -  4:32 PM Reply with quote
Samsher said……… Posted - Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 12:07 PM
MY REPLY:- I only try to preach the message of Qur'an and I have been doing this since long through many forums, for en example this forum.But it is proved that you propaget many of your nonsense thinking/story through this website, example of that are the rest of your posts.

Samsher said……… Posted - Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 12:07 PM
MY REPLY:- What was the practice of Prophet Muhammad? Is it not ONLY QUR'AN? Then which tone, for example, did he use his regular salat? How many salat he offered in a day?...How he observed his abluation(wudu).....? You people think that he invented/produced some rulings regarding islamic practices leaving behind the Qur'an, but this is your wishful thinking, which you are propagating through this website.

Samsher said……… Posted - Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 12:07 PM
MY REPLY:- At first you tell me what is 'Sunnah' according to the Qur'an? Where did you find your cherished sunnah i.e. Muhammad's sunnah in the Nobel Qur'an? Pl. don't try to propaget your wishful thinking. Provide proof from the Qur'an

Samsher said……… Posted - Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 12:07 PM
MY REPLY:- Mr. Moderator, I want reference from Qur'an not from any conjecture. The original source of Islam(for ours) is ONLY QUR'AN and noting else. By the way I asked you long ago a question that Hindu Pandits, Christian Missionaries are also doing great job towards their religion, even in many cases they are more qualified (academic) than your scholars. What about your opinion regarding there works???? But till date you could not been able to reply properly.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
AGREED WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!


Edited by: Bhavittre on Sunday, March 11, 2007 5:00 AM
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Sunday, March 11, 2007  -  11:39 AM Reply with quote
what an amazing alliance!
thanks madam bhawitri...

Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, March 11, 2007  -  11:51 AM Reply with quote
most welcum
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, March 12, 2007  -  3:13 PM Reply with quote
oh bhavittre a surprise to see you! still around aye

samsher it is our self made code of conduct you are right, by the site you are on; therefore you ought to abide by it if you wish to stay here our dear brother in islam

Consequently, the Almighty fulfilled His promise and provided guidance to mankind by selecting people from among them and through them delivered His guidance to mankind. This guidance contained both al-hikmah and al-shari‘ah. The former obviously did not require any change, while the latter was revealed as per the needs of a people until the time of Abraham (sws) when its directives crystallized in the form of a sunnah for all mankind. In the time of Moses (sws), when a formal state of the Israelites had been established, the Torah was revealed and directives of the shari‘ah regarding the collectivity were also revealed. During this time, when certain aspects of hikmah did not remain before the eyes of people, they were made evident to them through the Psalms and Gospels. When the original texts of these scriptures became extinct, the Almighty sent the last of His messengers and gave him the Qur’an:



وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَـكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَآ آتَاكُم فَاسْتَبِقُوا الخَيْرَاتِ إِلَى الله مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ (5: 48)

And [O Prophet!] We have revealed to you the Book with the truth in confirmation of the shari‘ah before it, and standing as a guardian over it. Therefore give judgement among these [People of the Book] according to the guidance revealed by God and do not yield to their whims by swerving from the truth revealed to you. For each of you, we have ordained a shari‘ah and assigned a path, and had God pleased, He could have made of you one community: but it is His wish to try you by that which He has bestowed upon you. So, compete with each other in good deeds. To God shall you all return. Then He shall disclose upon you all your differences.



This is the history of religion. Consequently, keeping it in consideration, the following precede the Qur’an:



i. Innate Guidance

ii. The Sunan of Abraham (sws)

iii. The Scriptures of the Prophets


contd:

for details see

http://renaissance.com.pk/JanQur2y7.htm
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, March 12, 2007  -  3:16 PM Reply with quote
The first of the above mentioned things relate to the basics of faith and morality. In the terminology of the Qur’an, a major portion of this is called ma‘ruf and munkar. The former refers to things which are regarded to be good by human nature and the latter refers to things which are regarded to be evil by it and which it evades. The Qur’an does not give a comprehensive list of these things; on other hand, it says that a person is innately aware of these and is able to fully distinguish the two on this basis. It thus demands that a person accept ma‘ruf and shun munkar:



وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتُ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ نهَِي عَنِ المُنْكَر (71:9)

And true believers, both men and women, are friends to one another. They urge one another to what is good and forbid what is evil. (9:71)



If there arises a difference of opinion in determining the ma‘ruf or the munkar, then the inclination of the progeny of Abraham (sws) shall be regarded as decisive in that particular matter. The reason for this is that for the past many centuries, prophets were sent to them and it is as if their inclination of the ma‘ruf and the munkar has been ratified by the prophets.


contd:

for details see

http://renaissance.com.pk/JanQur2y7.htm
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, March 12, 2007  -  5:58 PM Reply with quote
After reading this whole forum (The Quran'n and Sunnah) from page 1 to 46, I have reached the conclusion to agree 100% with sksamshirali.
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, March 13, 2007  -  5:27 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Consequently, the Almighty fulfilled His promise and provided guidance to mankind by selecting people from among them and through them delivered His guidance to mankind. This guidance contained both al-hikmah and al-shari‘ah.

What is the Qura’nic evidence you quoted (This guidance contained both al-hikmah and al-shari‘ah)?
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007  -  5:07 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Hkhan the moderator is not a brother but a wonderful sister. anyhow that does not mean I agree with her views regarding this site.
perv1 from UK Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007-10:30 PM

What you mean by the word highlighted in the quote?
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, March 15, 2007  -  11:12 AM Reply with quote
Dear Khan,


Quote:- samsher it is our self made code of conduct you are right, by the site you are on; therefore you ought to abide by it if you wish to stay here our dear brother in islam


MY REPLY:- That means you also agreed the second point of my statement(as you agreed my first point) i.e. under this code of conduct you can say anything or blame to any one’s opinion , but no one can say anything about your opinion, which is full of ILLUSION!!!

Samsher Ali.
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, March 15, 2007  -  11:27 AM Reply with quote
quote:

MY REPLY:- That means you also agreed the second point of my statement(as you agreed my first point) i.e. under this code of conduct you can say anything or blame to any one’s opinion , but no one can say anything about your opinion, which is full of ILLUSION!!!

Samsher Ali.


You are correct!!!
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, March 15, 2007  -  12:46 PM Reply with quote
Salam,


Quote:- And [O Prophet!] We have revealed to you the Book with the truth in confirmation of the shari‘ah before it, and standing as a guardian over it. Therefore give judgement among these [People of the Book] according to the guidance revealed by God and do not yield to their whims by swerving from the truth revealed to you. For each of you, we have ordained a shari‘ah and assigned a path, and had God pleased, He could have made of you one community: but it is His wish to try you by that which He has bestowed upon you. So, compete with each other in good deeds. To God shall you all return. Then He shall disclose upon you all your differences. (5: 48)


Reply:- You said in the above translation as ‘we have revealed to you the Book………..confirmation of the SHARI’AH BEFORE IT……’. Could you please tell me which translation did you use in this case ???


005.048
YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it….:

PICKTHAL: And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it ….

SHAKIR: And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book ……

Samsher
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, March 16, 2007  -  3:21 PM Reply with quote
thnx for everyones' effort to know the right 'n god bless. (thnx perv 1 for the comments:)'n i appreciate your endeavour to learn and understand. may Allah guide us all to the most Right . amen

The beauty of Studying Islam and its sister websites is that the facts given are backed up with evidence from the basic sources of deen i.e. Qur'an and Sunnah; however we do not at all expect our respected participants to agree with us fully/partially. The reason these sites are put up is to convey what we have understood as Truth and for which explaniation and logic is made available as well; for the sincere seekers of the Right
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, March 16, 2007  -  3:26 PM Reply with quote
ps further to the previous:

contd:

The second of the above mentioned things is called by the Qur’an as millat-i ibrahimi. The prayer, the fast, the hajj and the zakah are all directives of this millat-i ibrahimi. The addressees of the Qur’an were fully aware of them and to a great extent practiced them the way they were. In the narrative which depicts Abu Dharr’s (rta) acceptance of faith, he explicitly says that he would diligently offer the prayer even before Muhammad (sws) had declared his Prophethood.44 It is known that the Friday prayer was not unknown to the addressees of the Qur’an.45 They would offer the funeral prayer46 and would fast in the very manner we would fast today.47 Zakah too was known to them as a specific share in their wealth the way it is now.48 Regarding the worship rituals of hajj and ‘umrah, every knowledgeable person knows that though the Quraysh had added some religious innovations to them, the rites of these worship rituals which they offered were virtually the same as they are today. In fact, it is evident from certain narratives that people were even aware of these innovations. Consequently, there is a narrative in Bukhari that the hajj offered by Muhammad (sws) before his prophethood was offered without these innovations of the Quraysh in the very manner it was offered ever since the time of Abraham (sws).49

Same is the case with animal sacrifice, i‘tikaf, circumcision besides some other customs and etiquette of Islam. All these things were already known and specified and the Arabs were aware of them as age old traditions transferred by one generation to another. Thus there was no need for the Qur’an to give their details. They fully knew what the Arabic words which referred to them meant. If the Qur’an asked them to pray and to fast and to offer the hajj and to pay zakah, they fully knew what these terms meant. The Qur’an never gave them the first directive about these. It only reformed and revived them and explained some aspect – and that too to the extent of what was essential. All this tradition of the religion of Abraham (sws), which in religious parlance is called Sunnah, is regarded by the Qur’an as the religion of God, and it asks of its followers to fully adopt it:



ثُمَّ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ أَنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (123:16)

Then We revealed to you to follow the ways of Abraham, who was true in faith and was not among the polytheists. (16:123)



contd:

for details see our beautifully compiled monthly research journal

http://renaissance.com.pk/JanQur2y7.htm
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, March 17, 2007  -  9:52 PM Reply with quote
quote:

for details see our beautifully compiled monthly research journal

http://renaissance.com.pk/JanQur2y7.htm


NOT AT ALL!!!!!!!
But read an Authorized English Version, Translated from the original by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D at http://www.submission.org/Q-T.html
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, March 19, 2007  -  9:54 AM Reply with quote
Quote:- The second of the above mentioned things is called by the Qur’an as millat-i ibrahimi. The prayer, the fast, the hajj and the zakah are all directives of this millat-i ibrahimi.
_______________________________________

Salam H.Khan and All


MY REPLY :- What does mean to say ‘Millat Ibraheem’ ???? For details please see the beautiful and perfect article at ;

http://www.quran-islam.org/176.html

Samsher

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