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aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, October 19, 2011  -  12:40 PM Reply with quote
quote:


.........Those who do not believe that Qur’an is Complete, fully detailed, is a deaf and dumb......
And the Qur'an says addressing Prophet Muhammed, ﴿فَلاَ وَرَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّى يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ﴾

"But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them."

But you have denied belief in this verse when you stated:


quote:

....I only said that 'Muhammed was not the last messenger' .........


According to Islam there is no Messenger and no Prophet after Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); he was the last of the Prophets and of the Messengers, (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Every Messenger is a Prophet, but not every Prophet is a Messenger.

Thus it is clear that everything which says that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets and that there is no Prophet after him indicates that there is no Messenger after him either, because there cannot be any Messenger who is not also a Prophet.

If the text said that the Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Messengers, that would not suggest that there would be no Prophet after him, because it would be possible for there to be a Prophet who was not a Messenger.

But, the text states that the Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets and that there will be no Prophet after him and this means that there can be no Prophet after him and no Messenger after him.

With regard to the aayah,

“but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last (end) of the Prophets” [al-Ahzaab 33:40]

and why it did not say the last of the Messengers – the end of the Message does not mean the end of Prophethood, but the end of Prophethood does mean the end of the Message. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There will be no Prophet after me,” and he did not say, there will be no Messenger after me.


Edited by: aboosait on Wednesday, October 19, 2011 1:47 PM
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Monday, October 24, 2011  -  7:52 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:


.........Those who do not believe that Qur’an is Complete, fully detailed, is a deaf and dumb......
And the Qur'an says addressing Prophet Muhammed, ﴿فَلاَ وَرَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّى يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ﴾

"But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them."

But you have denied belief in this verse when you stated:


quote:

....I only said that 'Muhammed was not the last messenger' .........


According to Islam there is no Messenger and no Prophet after Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); he was the last of the Prophets and of the Messengers, (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Every Messenger is a Prophet, but not every Prophet is a Messenger.

Thus it is clear that everything which says that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets and that there is no Prophet after him indicates that there is no Messenger after him either, because there cannot be any Messenger who is not also a Prophet.

If the text said that the Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Messengers, that would not suggest that there would be no Prophet after him, because it would be possible for there to be a Prophet who was not a Messenger.

But, the text states that the Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets and that there will be no Prophet after him and this means that there can be no Prophet after him and no Messenger after him.

With regard to the aayah,

“but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last (end) of the Prophets” [al-Ahzaab 33:40]

and why it did not say the last of the Messengers – the end of the Message does not mean the end of Prophethood, but the end of Prophethood does mean the end of the Message. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There will be no Prophet after me,” and he did not say, there will be no Messenger after me.


Edited by: aboosait on Wednesday, October 19, 2011 1:47 PM


quote:

quote:


.........Those who do not believe that Qur’an is Complete, fully detailed, is a deaf and dumb......
And the Qur'an says addressing Prophet Muhammed, ﴿فَلاَ وَرَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّى يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ﴾

"But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them."

But you have denied belief in this verse when you stated:


quote:

....I only said that 'Muhammed was not the last messenger' .........


According to Islam there is no Messenger and no Prophet after Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); he was the last of the Prophets and of the Messengers, (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Every Messenger is a Prophet, but not every Prophet is a Messenger.

Thus it is clear that everything which says that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets and that there is no Prophet after him indicates that there is no Messenger after him either, because there cannot be any Messenger who is not also a Prophet.

If the text said that the Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Messengers, that would not suggest that there would be no Prophet after him, because it would be possible for there to be a Prophet who was not a Messenger.

But, the text states that the Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets and that there will be no Prophet after him and this means that there can be no Prophet after him and no Messenger after him.

With regard to the aayah,

“but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last (end) of the Prophets” [al-Ahzaab 33:40]

and why it did not say the last of the Messengers – the end of the Message does not mean the end of Prophethood, but the end of Prophethood does mean the end of the Message. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There will be no Prophet after me,” and he did not say, there will be no Messenger after me.


Edited by: aboosait on Wednesday, October 19, 2011 1:47 PM


Quote :- "But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them."

But you have denied belief in this verse when you stated:

Reply :- I did not deny anything brother, rather you denied or probably did not understand the message of the following verses;-

[4:105] We have sent down to you the scripture, truthfully, in order to judge among the people in accordance with what GOD has shown you. You shall not side with the betrayers.
[5:47] The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.
[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.
[pre]The message of the above verses is very clear:- Prophet Muhammad judged between the people in accordance with the God’s Book i.e. in accordance with the Qur’an and nothing else.[/black][/pre]

Quote:- According to Islam there is no Messenger and no Prophet after Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); he was the last of the Prophets and of the Messengers, (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Reply:- Yes, it is according to HISLAM not Islam.

Quote:- Every Messenger is a Prophet, but not every Prophet is a Messenger.


Thus it is clear that everything which says that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets and that there is no Prophet after him indicates that there is no Messenger after him either, because there cannot be any Messenger who is not also a Prophet.

Reply:- Whimsical thinking does not indicate anything. Only Qur’an indicates the TRUTH, which is as follows;

In 3:81 God defined the exact duty of the Prophet (Nabi) and also the duty of the Messenger (Rasoul):

"God took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you." 3:81

Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall translated 3:81 as follows:

"When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you)in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear witness. I will be a witness with you."

Verse 3:81, among many other verses, provides the definitions of "Nabi" (Prophet) and "Rasoul" (Messenger). "Nabi" is a messenger of God who delivers a new scripture, while "Rasoul" is a messenger commissioned by God to confirm existing scripture; he does not bring a new scripture. According to the Quran, every "Nabi" is a "Rasoul," but not every "Rasoul" is a "Nabi".

Samsher Ali
Sanwal

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, November 12, 2011  -  11:53 AM Reply with quote
Now Aboosait has NO way to exhibit his lies, fabrications and forgeries etc.
Aboosait, "Don't have you your own un-corrupted brain?"
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Sunday, November 13, 2011  -  3:21 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Now Aboosait has NO way to exhibit his lies, fabrications and forgeries etc.........
Sure. aboosait has accepted Allah's words and the teachings of Prophet Mohammed Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله، وأشهد أن محمدا عبده و رسوله He cannot force anyone because "la ikraha fiddeen". He has clearly pointed out the verses which call upon Muslims to obey Allah and follow the teachings of Mohammed Rasoolullah Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam and also proved above that apart from Al-kitab' the angel Gabriel was deputed by Allah to teach al-hikmah to the Prophet Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam. The Truth has become clear but there is no compulsion 'La ikraha fiddeen'.
Sanwal

INDIA
Posted - Sunday, November 13, 2011  -  2:11 PM Reply with quote
quote:

]He cannot force anyone because "la ikraha fiddeen".

OK, "La kum deen o kum wa le ya deen"
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Friday, November 25, 2011  -  8:23 AM Reply with quote
Dear brother....

Almighty Allah is the teacher of Qur'an and ONLY HE will Explain IT to the believers NOT Prophet Muhammad.

The Most Gracious. Teacher of the Quran." 55:1-2

"Then it is We who will explain it." 75:19


The sole duty of Prophet Muhammad was to deliver the Qur'an.

“The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message” 24:54

The Quran states that no prophet brings a law of his own. The only law and Sunna is that of God:

“You will find no substitute to God’s Sunna ” 33:62.

The messenger is prohibited from adding his own teachings to the message he received from God. If he does he would be committing a great error that would incur a severe punishment from God (see 69:44-46).

What this means is that the messenger is authorised only in delivering the message of the Quran and nothing else. All what he preaches to us from the Quran must be obeyed, but not any other teachings that do not have reference or authorisation in the Quran. To obey the messenger blindly in every word he ever uttered is the work of those who are intent on making an idol out of the messenger, and they do so by corrupting yet another Quranic verses which says “obey God and the messenger”.

The moment they uphold the personal sayings of the messenger or any kind of personal teachings which are not authorised in the Quran they immediately become guilty of idol worship:

"They follow idols who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution." 42:21

One more claim made by the advocates of hadith is that the Quran contains the headlines only, and that the the hadith offers the guidance on how to apply the specific details of the religion.

Needless to say, not only does this claim show total disregard for the Quranic assurances that the book contains all the details (6:114), and that nothing has been left out of the book (6:38) and that the Quran has explanations for all things (16:89), but it also shows total disregard for the Quranic words which confirm that:

1- The only duty of the messenger is to deliver the message:

“the sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message (Quran)” 5:92

2- The prophet Muhammad was commanded to specifically proclaim to the people that he cannot guide them:

“Say (O Muhammad), "I possess no power to harm you, nor to guide you." 72:21

“I only deliver God's words and messages." 72:23

Verily, if the messenger cannot guide the people, so much for the claim which states that the hadith offers guidance!

Samsherali
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Monday, December 19, 2011  -  7:59 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Dear brother....

..........Almighty Allah is the teacher of Qur'an and ONLY HE will Explain IT to the believers NOT Prophet Muhammad......

Samsherali


I have to repeat Allah’s words again “ Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest?”
This because you are picking random Verses leaving out Verses relevant to the topic under discussion and saying that Qur’an does not support my claim.
Allah says: (translation of menings) "And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them." [An-Nahal, 16:44].
And He says: (translation of menings) "Allah did confer a great favor on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and ]teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error." [A'ale Imran 3:164].

Who understood deen better-early muslims or' modernist' muslims?

Then take the meanings as understood by the early Muslims.

Where were these illogical and irrational underdeveloped minds before 150 yrs?

Why only they popped up during british rule in India in the form of Parvezis and Qadianis?

Why is there no trace of Parvezis from other parts of world except Pakistan?

Why don't they come up for an open debate?Why have they used the medium of internet?

Why do they hide and deceive people with fake IDs'?

Why do they quote out of context,incomplete hadith with no references?

Where were they for 12 centuries of Islamic history?
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Monday, December 19, 2011  -  10:01 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

Dear brother....

..........Almighty Allah is the teacher of Qur'an and ONLY HE will Explain IT to the believers NOT Prophet Muhammad......

Samsherali


I have to repeat Allah’s words again “ Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest?”
This because you are picking random Verses leaving out Verses relevant to the topic under discussion and saying that Qur’an does not support my claim.
Allah says: (translation of menings) "And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them." [An-Nahal, 16:44].
And He says: (translation of menings) "Allah did confer a great favor on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and ]teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error." [A'ale Imran 3:164].

Who understood deen better-early muslims or' modernist' muslims?

Then take the meanings as understood by the early Muslims.

Where were these illogical and irrational underdeveloped minds before 150 yrs?

Why only they popped up during british rule in India in the form of Parvezis and Qadianis?

Why is there no trace of Parvezis from other parts of world except Pakistan?

Why don't they come up for an open debate?Why have they used the medium of internet?

Why do they hide and deceive people with fake IDs'?

Why do they quote out of context,incomplete hadith with no references?

Where were they for 12 centuries of Islamic history?



Dear brother,-

Do the words in 16:44 and 3:164 authorise the Hadith as a second source of Law besides the Quran?

Verses 16:44 and 3:164 have been used to claim that since the messenger is commissioned to explain and teach the Quran, thus we need the hadith which explains the Quran.

In 16:44 we read:

“We have sent down to you the reminder (Quran) so that you make evident to the people what was sent to them”

and in 3:164 we read:

“God has bestowed favour on the believers by sending them a messenger from among them, to recite for them His revelations, and to purify them, and to teach them the scripture and wisdom. Before this, they were totally astray.”


To analyse this claim we will deal with two separate claims:

1- Do these verses authorise the hadith as an additional source besides the Quran?

2- Can the messenger really guide people to the true meaning and message of the Quran?

First:

Do these verses authorise the hadith as an additional source besides the Quran?

The words in 16:44 clearly state that the messenger can only make things clear to the people by means of what is revealed to him (Quran). This is also confirmed in 6:114 which states that the only source of law is the book. In addition, the messenger is prohibited from adding his own teachings to the message he received from God. If he does he would be committing a great error that would incur a severe punishment from God (see 69:44-46).

What this means is that the messenger is authorised only in delivering the message of the Quran and nothing else. All what he preaches and which is from the Quran must be obeyed, but not any other personal teachings that do not have reference or authorisation in the Quran. To obey the messenger blindly in every word he ever uttered is the work of those who are intent on making an idol out of the messenger, and they do so by corrupting yet another Quranic verse which says “obey God and the messenger”.

One of the very clear messages of the Quran is that the moment anyone upholds any kind of personal teachings which are not authorised in the Quran they immediately become guilty of idol worship and are promised severe retribution:

"They follow idols who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution."

But, Traditionalists have opted for that is consider an inaccurate rendering of the Arabic root word "BYN." The word 'lituBaYyeNa is a derivative of "BYN," which is a multiple-meaning word. It means:

1)To reveal what is concealed; or
2)To explain what is vague.


Thus the first meaning is the antonym of "hide," and the second is the antonym of "make vague." This passage should be translated in accordance with the first meaning, and understand the passage as relating to God's order to Muhammad to proclaim the revelation which is revealed to him personally. I believe that the Quran is clear, as its text itself insists.

Indeed, "proclaiming" is the whole mission of the messengers of God, as the Quran maintains
(16:35).

To be sure, prophets sometimes experience difficulty in proclaiming the revelation (33:37, 20:25). But if the Quran is a profound book written in Arabic so that people may understand (12:2), if it is to be explained by God (75:19), and if it is simple to understand (5:15; 26:195; 11:1; 54:17; 55:1-2), then it is hard to see why or how the prophet is to assume the additional mission of explaining the divine message?

I emphasize, once again, that 75:19 holds that God explains the Quran, and makes no mention of Muhammad or any other prophet, or indeed any human explanation whatsoever. Thus, the word lituBaYyeNa of 16:44, which must be translated as "proclaim," is similar to the one in 3:187. Verse 3:187 tells us that the people who received the revelation should "… proclaim the scripture to the people, and never hide it." (3:187)

Second: Can the messenger really guide people to the true meaning and message of the Quran?


It must also be said that a common misunderstanding arises when one or two verses are looked at in isolation. Without looking at all the relevant verses dealing with one particular Quranic topic, a misleading deduction can be arrived at.

If we read 16:44 and 3:164 on their own it may well appear that the messenger can fully explain the Quran to the people and that he is the teacher of the Quran, but what about when we read 55:1-2 which says that God is the teacher of the Quran?

Also, what about 75:19 where God is speaking to the messenger and tells him clearly that it is He (God) who will explain the Quran?

It is clear that when we read other verses we get a different picture.


As a result, we must arrive at a common meaning which would be in harmony with all the Quranic verses and not just 3:164 and 16:44.


The common meaning is that the messenger delivered the Quran to the people and that he spent all his remaining days preaching the Quran and commanding people to follow it and showing them what the Quran requires them to do.

However, the messenger cannot guide anyone or guarantee that all people will understand the true message of the Quran. It is God, and God alone, who can guide the people and truly explain the message of the book to the ones who deserve the guidance.


The Quranic verses which confirm this truth are numerous, such as:
“You cannot guide the ones you love. God is the only One who guides in accordance with His will, and in accordance with His knowledge of those who deserve the guidance.” 28:56


And in 72:21 the messenger is commanded to proclaim to all people:
“I possess no power to harm you nor to guide you” 72:21

The messenger is a tool and a medium between God and the people, but the messenger cannot change what is in the heart nor can he implant belief into any heart nor can he guide anyone, he can only pass the message:
"The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message (Quran)" 5:92

This duty does not only apply to the messenger, it applies to any Imam or teacher or preacher. There are thousands of such teachers all over the world today giving lectures, lessons and sermons. They all try to explain the Quran ( then what is the difference between the messenger and these imams as explainer?), but do all their listeners understand the message of the book?

The answer is NO!

To conclude, the messenger is authorised to use the Quran alone to preach to the people. The messenger will pass the message of the book to all people and invite all to accept and follow the Quran, but he cannot guide anyone nor guarantee that anyone will attain the true message of the book. And if the messenger cannot guide anyone (72:21), so much for the claim which states that the Hadith offers guidance[pre]Text[/pre]

Samsher Ali[pre]Text[/pre]
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Monday, December 19, 2011  -  2:14 PM Reply with quote
quote:

.........Do these verses authorise the hadith as an additional source besides the Quran?.............
The Qur’aan mentions many rules, but it also tells us that the Sunnah is a source of evidence in which many rules are mentioned in detail that are not mentioned in the Qur’aan. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

“… and We have also sent down to you (O Muhammad) the reminder and the advice (the Qur’aan), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them and that they may give thought.” [al-Nahl 16:44]

“… and whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it…” [al-Hashr 59:7]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“I have been given the Qur’aan and something like it with it…”

(Reported by Imaam Ahmad, 16546; this is a saheeh hadeeth).

Whether the rules were narrated in the Qur’aan or in the Sunnah, all of it is true and right, and all of it has one source, which is the wahy or revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.

According to the hadeeth of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Water is for water (i.e., ghusl must be done when semen is emitted).”

Narrated by Muslim (343).

What this means, as was stated by al-Nawawi, is that it becomes obligatory to do ghusl with water if gushing water is emitted, i.e., maniy.

So, you rejecter of Sunnah, do you take bath or not after an ejaculation?



Edited by: aboosait on Monday, December 19, 2011 2:18 PM
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, December 20, 2011  -  6:21 AM Reply with quote
[pre]
quote:

quote:

.........Do these verses authorise the hadith as an additional source besides the Quran?.............
The Qur’aan mentions many rules, but it also tells us that the Sunnah is a source of evidence in which many rules are mentioned in detail that are not mentioned in the Qur’aan. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

“… and We have also sent down to you (O Muhammad) the reminder and the advice (the Qur’aan), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them and that they may give thought.” [al-Nahl 16:44]

“… and whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it…” [al-Hashr 59:7]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“I have been given the Qur’aan and something like it with it…”

(Reported by Imaam Ahmad, 16546; this is a saheeh hadeeth).

Whether the rules were narrated in the Qur’aan or in the Sunnah, all of it is true and right, and all of it has one source, which is the wahy or revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.

According to the hadeeth of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Water is for water (i.e., ghusl must be done when semen is emitted).”

Narrated by Muslim (343).

What this means, as was stated by al-Nawawi, is that it becomes obligatory to do ghusl with water if gushing water is emitted, i.e., maniy.

So, you rejecter of Sunnah, do you take bath or not after an ejaculation?



Edited by: aboosait on Monday, December 19, 2011 2:18 PM


Dear brother,


(1) Firstly the verse 16:44 says about only one thing i.e. Qur’an, not about two things.

“We have sent down to you the REMINDER (Quran) so that you make evident to the people what was sent to them”

(2) Now come to the verse 59:7.

"So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and refrain from what he withholds from you" 59:7

These Quranic words which form part of verse 7 of Sura 59 have been badly manipulated by those who wish to find any justification for granting prophet Muhammad legislative powers. According to these scholars they interpret these words to mean that we must uphold everything and every word spoken by the prophet as law and refrain from everything he prohibits. With this allowance they have elevated Muhammad to being a Law maker besides God. This is in sharp violation to many Quranic verses such as 6:114, 42:21 and 66:1.
One common way of corrupting the meaning of a Quranic truth is to isolate one verse, or part of a verse, from the verses that come before it or after it. By doing so, a totally misleading meaning can be obtained.
Let us look at the following very simple example:

"O you who believe, do not approach the Salat (prayer) while intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying." 4:43

Now let us read the first few words of this verse without the remainder, we get:

"O you who believe, do not approach the Salat (prayer)"

Here we have material for manipulation, since these Quranic words command us not to observe our prayers! Obviously this manipulation was possible only because we quoted part of a verse and omitted the remainder.

The same principle can also sometimes apply when we quote one Quranic verse in isolation without reading the verses immediately before or or after it. This is exactly the case when applied to 59:7 in isolation.

It is true that the words used in 59:7 say that we should accept what the messenger gives us and refrain from what he withholds from us. But what exactly is God speaking about here? Do these words mean that the messenger has the authority to legislate and we to accept him as a law maker? What do the words before these words in 59:7 say? Well, by reading the whole verse the picture becomes totally different from what the manipulators are claiming:

Sura 59, verses 6-7:

Whatever God restored for His messenger was not the result of your war efforts, whether you fought on horses or on foot. God is the One who sends His messengers against whomever He wills. God is Omnipotent.
That which God gives as spoil unto His messenger from the defeated towns, it is for God and His messenger and for the relatives, the orphans and the needy and the traveling alien. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the strong among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and refrain from what he withholds from you. You shall reverence God. God is strict in enforcing retribution."

By reading these glorious Quranic words we arrive at the following important issues:

1- These two verses (59:6-7) speak very clearly about the spoils of war and nothing else. The words "that which God gives as spoils from the defeated towns" confirm that the subject is the spoils of war.

2- More important the source of what is given to the people by the messenger "what the messenger asigns to you" is God and not the messenger. This is confirmed with the words "what God restored for His messenger". What this means is that whatever is given to the believers, and even though is given by the messenger, yet the source is still God. The spoils of war are given to the messenger in order that he may distribute them in accordance to God's rules.

3- We read that the messenger is told specifically how to distribute these spoils of war: "for the relatives, the orphans, the needy, and the traveling alien".

4- Following these words, God says that the believers should accept what the messenger gives them (of the spoils) and refrain from what is not given to them. In other words, God is telling the believers to accept the way the messenger distributes these spoils of war without grumbling.

5- The words "so it would not remain monopolised by the strong among you" is further conclusive proof that God is not speaking about the hadith or sunna of the messenger but is speaking about material gains, i.e the spoils of war.

6- The conclusion is that these two verses have been badly manipulated by those who would go to any lengths to justify the legality of sunna. As we have just seen they would even manipulate God's own words in order to justify their hadith and sunna. And to justify this false claim they took few words out of 59:7 "take what the messenger gives you" and quoted them in isolation in order to deceive.


(3) I LEAVE FOR YOU THE QURAN ALONE you shall uphold It, Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; ibn Majah 25/84, Abu dawud 11/56. See Sahih Muslim, Book of Hajj, Book 7 , Number 2803:}

– Now which hadis is correct brother?

(4) Regarding Bath, Brother, I do not require any hadis to know when should I take a bath or not.

Brother, have you anything in your basket now? Please show me.

Samsher[/pre]
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, December 20, 2011  -  12:07 PM Reply with quote
quote:

.....Regarding Bath, Brother, I do not require any hadis to know when should I take a bath or not....
You have already made it clear that you dont believe in Hadith and also do not follow Sunnah. Note my words:
quote:

.........So, you rejecter of Sunnah,....


Answer my question YES or NO.








Edited by: aboosait on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 12:14 PM
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, December 21, 2011  -  8:24 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

.....Regarding Bath, Brother, I do not require any hadis to know when should I take a bath or not....
You have already made it clear that you dont believe in Hadith and also do not follow Sunnah. Note my words:
quote:

.........So, you rejecter of Sunnah,....


Answer my question YES or NO.


Edited by: aboosait on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 12:14 PM



It seems to me that you even did not understand the meaning of a simple sentence!!


I clearly said that "Regarding Bath,I do not require any hadis to know when should I take a bath or not".


I am not your student brother as you ordered me to answer your question by saying yes or no. If you are able to understand the meaning of the above simple sentence, then welcome, if not, then I can't help you.


Also prophet's sunnah was Only Qur'an. He practised only Qur'an and nothing else. You please prove that Prophet Muhammad practised outside Qur'an, which is called sunnah.

Samsher
samsher
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, December 29, 2011  -  3:06 PM Reply with quote
quote:

.........I clearly said that "Regarding Bath,I do not require any hadis to know when should I take a bath or not"..........
samsher
Then where do you take your guidance on impurities and prescribed method of cleansing yourself and preparation for prayer ?

Allah says "..............whatever the (Prophetic) Messenger gives you, take it and whatever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..............

Some Selected Verses From The Holy Qur'an On
OUR BELOVED PROPHET MUHAMMAD
Sallallahu 'alayhi wa Sallam

BELIEVE, HONOUR, LOVE, RESPECT AND OBEY HIM

1. Believe, honour and respect him

That you (mankind) may believe in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and may respect him, and honour him, and may glorify Him (Allah) morning and evening. (48:9)

That you believe in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah’s way with your property and your persons; that is better for you, if you only knew! (61:11)

2. Love Allah and His Beloved Prophet more than anything else

Say (O Beloved Prophet): If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your kinsfolk, and the wealth you have acquired, and merchandise for which you fear that there will be no sale, and dwellings you desire, are dearer to you than Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger and fighting in His Way: then wait till Allah brings His Command to pass, and Allah does not guide the disobedient people. (9:24)

3. He is closer to the believers than their own selves

The Prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers. And blood-relations have closer ties one to another in the Book of Allah (regarding inheritance) than (the brotherhood of) the believers and the Migrants (from Makkah), except that you do any good to your friends. This is inscribed in the Book (of Divine Decrees). (33:6)

4. Respect him

O you who believe! Be not forward in the presence of Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and be in reverential awe of Allah. Surely, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
O you who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud when speaking to him as you shout one to another, lest your deeds become worthless while you perceive not.
Surely, those who lower their voices in the presence of the (Prophetic) Messenger of Allah, those are they whose hearts Allah has tested for piety. For them is forgiveness and an immense reward. (49:1-3)

5. Obey Allah (Ta‘ala) and His Beloved Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam)

And obey Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger that you may obtain mercy. (3:132)

Those are the limits set by Allah, and whoso obeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, He (Allah) will make him enter Gardens (in Paradise) underneath which rivers flow, to abide therein. And that is the great success. (4:13)

O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger and those in authority from amongst you, then if you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger if you believe in Allah and the Last Day (of Jedgement). That is better and very good in the end. (4:59)

And whoso obeys Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger, they will be with those to whom Allah has shown favour, of the Prophets and the Truthful and the Martyrs and the Righteous, and the best of Companions are they! (4:69)

Whoever obeys the (Prophetic) Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah; and whoever turns away, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them. (4:80)

And the believing (Muslim) men and the believing (Muslim) women are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong, and they establish regular Prayer and they give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Undoubtedly, Allah is Mighty, Wise. (9:71)

And he who obeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and has reverential awe of Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him): then these it is that are the successful. (24:52)

Say (O Beloved Prophet): “Obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger. But if you turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and you for that placed on you, and if you obey him, you will be rightly guided. And the responsibility of the (Prophetic) Messenger is only to convey (the Message) clearly. (24:54)

And establish regular Prayer and give the obligatory charity (Zakat) and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger, so that mercy may be shown to you (from Allah). (24:56)

O you who believe! Have reverential awe of Allah and speak the right word.
He (Allah) will set right your deeds for you and will forgive you your sins, and whosoever obeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, he has indeed gained a mighty success. (33:70-71)

The bedouins say: “We believe”. Say (to them, O beloved Prophet): “You do not (yet) believe, but rather say ‘We have submitted’, for the Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, He will not diminish anything of (the reward of) your deeds. Surely, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

The (true) believers are only those who have believed in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger and afterward, have never doubted but have struggled with their wealth and their persons in the Way of Allah. It is they who are the truthful. (49:14-15)

And obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger; but if you turn away, then (know that) the duty of our (Prophetic) Messenger is only to convey (the Message) clearly. (64:12)

6. Follow the Commands of Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta‘ala) and of his Beloved Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam)

And it befits not a believing (Muslim) man or a believing (Muslim) woman, when Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger have decreed a matter (for them), that they should (after that) claim any choice in their matter; and whoso disobeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, he has surely gone astray in manifest error. (33:36)

7. Whatever he gives you, take it

Whatever Allah has restored to His (Prophetic) Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the (Prophetic) Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarers, so that it may not (merely) circulate between the wealthy among you, and whatever the (Prophetic) Messenger gives you, take it and whatever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and be in reverential awe of Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil). (59:7)

8. The reward of believing in Allah and His Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam)

O you who believe! Be in reverential awe of Allah and believe in His (Prophetic) Messenger. He (Allah) will give you twofold of His Mercy and will appoint for you a light wherein you shall walk, and will forgive you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (57:28)
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Friday, December 30, 2011  -  7:42 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

.........I clearly said that "Regarding Bath,I do not require any hadis to know when should I take a bath or not"..........
samsher
Then where do you take your guidance on impurities and prescribed method of cleansing yourself and preparation for prayer ?

Allah says "..............whatever the (Prophetic) Messenger gives you, take it and whatever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..............

Some Selected Verses From The Holy Qur'an On
OUR BELOVED PROPHET MUHAMMAD
Sallallahu 'alayhi wa Sallam

BELIEVE, HONOUR, LOVE, RESPECT AND OBEY HIM

1. Believe, honour and respect him

That you (mankind) may believe in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and may respect him, and honour him, and may glorify Him (Allah) morning and evening. (48:9)

That you believe in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah’s way with your property and your persons; that is better for you, if you only knew! (61:11)

2. Love Allah and His Beloved Prophet more than anything else

Say (O Beloved Prophet): If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your kinsfolk, and the wealth you have acquired, and merchandise for which you fear that there will be no sale, and dwellings you desire, are dearer to you than Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger and fighting in His Way: then wait till Allah brings His Command to pass, and Allah does not guide the disobedient people. (9:24)

3. He is closer to the believers than their own selves

The Prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers. And blood-relations have closer ties one to another in the Book of Allah (regarding inheritance) than (the brotherhood of) the believers and the Migrants (from Makkah), except that you do any good to your friends. This is inscribed in the Book (of Divine Decrees). (33:6)

4. Respect him

O you who believe! Be not forward in the presence of Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and be in reverential awe of Allah. Surely, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
O you who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud when speaking to him as you shout one to another, lest your deeds become worthless while you perceive not.
Surely, those who lower their voices in the presence of the (Prophetic) Messenger of Allah, those are they whose hearts Allah has tested for piety. For them is forgiveness and an immense reward. (49:1-3)

5. Obey Allah (Ta‘ala) and His Beloved Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam)

And obey Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger that you may obtain mercy. (3:132)

Those are the limits set by Allah, and whoso obeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, He (Allah) will make him enter Gardens (in Paradise) underneath which rivers flow, to abide therein. And that is the great success. (4:13)

O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger and those in authority from amongst you, then if you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger if you believe in Allah and the Last Day (of Jedgement). That is better and very good in the end. (4:59)

And whoso obeys Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger, they will be with those to whom Allah has shown favour, of the Prophets and the Truthful and the Martyrs and the Righteous, and the best of Companions are they! (4:69)

Whoever obeys the (Prophetic) Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah; and whoever turns away, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them. (4:80)

And the believing (Muslim) men and the believing (Muslim) women are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong, and they establish regular Prayer and they give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Undoubtedly, Allah is Mighty, Wise. (9:71)

And he who obeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, and has reverential awe of Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him): then these it is that are the successful. (24:52)

Say (O Beloved Prophet): “Obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger. But if you turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and you for that placed on you, and if you obey him, you will be rightly guided. And the responsibility of the (Prophetic) Messenger is only to convey (the Message) clearly. (24:54)

And establish regular Prayer and give the obligatory charity (Zakat) and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger, so that mercy may be shown to you (from Allah). (24:56)

O you who believe! Have reverential awe of Allah and speak the right word.
He (Allah) will set right your deeds for you and will forgive you your sins, and whosoever obeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, he has indeed gained a mighty success. (33:70-71)

The bedouins say: “We believe”. Say (to them, O beloved Prophet): “You do not (yet) believe, but rather say ‘We have submitted’, for the Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, He will not diminish anything of (the reward of) your deeds. Surely, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

The (true) believers are only those who have believed in Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger and afterward, have never doubted but have struggled with their wealth and their persons in the Way of Allah. It is they who are the truthful. (49:14-15)

And obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger; but if you turn away, then (know that) the duty of our (Prophetic) Messenger is only to convey (the Message) clearly. (64:12)

6. Follow the Commands of Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta‘ala) and of his Beloved Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam)

And it befits not a believing (Muslim) man or a believing (Muslim) woman, when Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger have decreed a matter (for them), that they should (after that) claim any choice in their matter; and whoso disobeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, he has surely gone astray in manifest error. (33:36)

7. Whatever he gives you, take it

Whatever Allah has restored to His (Prophetic) Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the (Prophetic) Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarers, so that it may not (merely) circulate between the wealthy among you, and whatever the (Prophetic) Messenger gives you, take it and whatever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and be in reverential awe of Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil). (59:7)

8. The reward of believing in Allah and His Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam)

O you who believe! Be in reverential awe of Allah and believe in His (Prophetic) Messenger. He (Allah) will give you twofold of His Mercy and will appoint for you a light wherein you shall walk, and will forgive you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (57:28)



Salam,

For your first query the answer is as follows;

(5:6) O you who acknowledge, when you rise to attend the contact prayer, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you could not find water, then you shall do ablution from clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative.

For your 2nd comment i.e. “Allah says "..............whatever the (Prophetic) Messenger gives you, take it and whatever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..............”, I have already replied in detailed through my earlier post dtd.20/12/11. I think you did not read it.

And lastly, obeying, believing, respecting the Prophet Muhammad does not surely mean to follow any hadis ascribing upon him long after completion of Qur’an and also long after his death.

OBEYING, BELIEVING & RESPECTING the prophet Muhammed simply means to FOLLOW THE QUR’AN AS HE FOLLOWED and nothing else.

Samsher

I greet you in advance for ‘HAPPY NEW YEAR 2012’.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Friday, December 30, 2011  -  12:08 PM Reply with quote
quote:

.....OBEYING, BELIEVING & RESPECTING the prophet Muhammed simply means to FOLLOW THE QUR’AN AS HE FOLLOWED and nothing else..... Samsher.

"....AS HE FOLLOWED ..."? How does one come to know that ? What do you call the compilation where that is recorded?


Edited by: aboosait on Friday, December 30, 2011 12:18 PM
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Friday, December 30, 2011  -  12:16 PM Reply with quote
quote:

.........I greet you in advance for ‘HAPPY NEW YEAR 2012’.
Whilst living in a secular state we should no doubt accept, for administrative purposes, that we are going to enter the year 2012, but this administrative reality should always be rehashed with the notion that Allah ordained, as we know from revelation, that the actual year commences with Muharram and ends with Dhu al-Hijjah with months measured in accordance to lunar cycles as well as there being specific acts of worship related to the divinely ordained months.

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