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hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, April 10, 2007  -  9:10 PM Reply with quote
it is reassuring that you all are behaving now in regards to the respectable person of the prophets. if any further disrespect is shown to any of the prophets(peace be upon them) unfortunately studying islam will not tolearate this.

also it's nice to see that you came to the point now about'person' of Muhammadsws. and what to obey. indeed this is what we have been trying to explain through this site that he had some of his likings and dislikings as human beings e.g. certain colour, food, etc. but what he was sent for is to be followed in religiouis capacity. hence the points given above from his practices -sunnah of rasool sws.

however you still ought to be careful using words like'rubbish' for your colleague participants' opinions;these reflect one's basic manners and again this will cause unhealthy environment for discussion which will not be acceptable.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, April 10, 2007  -  9:14 PM Reply with quote
following tells us clearly what is expected to be followed in the person of Muhammad pbuh/sws

Section IV: Determinants of the Sunnah

i. The Sunnah only consists of religious practices
ii. The Sunnah only consists of practices and not doctrines and texts
iii. The Sunnah only consists of the practices initiated, by the Holy Prophet (sws), not by the Holy Qur’a#n
iv. Supererogatory acts are not Sunnah
v. Sunnah excludes the Prophetic teachings which actually attempt to interpret and explain the human nature
vi. The Sunnah excludes practices that the Holy Prophet (sws) did not institute as Sunnah
vii. The Sunnah cannot be established through Individual Reports


(Ref:Understanding the Sunnah.
Module 1. Courses SI)
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, April 10, 2007  -  9:20 PM Reply with quote
DISAGREED!!!
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Wednesday, April 11, 2007  -  5:20 PM Reply with quote
we must be worried about the future of our community if the state of affair remains that in our intracommunity relations we cannot tolerate eachothers' opinion. disagreement is fine--rather a sign of active,thinking minds --however not to condemn the opponent with anger and resentment--rather to come fwd with arguements, evidence and facts in a cool & healthy environment like the one we try to promote here on this site
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, April 12, 2007  -  10:35 AM Reply with quote
Salam Raushan,

Q: -AS-SAARIQU WAS SAARIQATU FAAQTA'OO AIDEEHIMAA. (The male and the female thief: Cut off their hands).


R:- The punishment enforced in a number of Islamic countries for the crime of theft is based on the wrong interpretation of the following verse:

"The male thief, and the female thief, you shall "eqta’u" their hands as a punishment for their deeds, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Almighty, Wise."5:38

The way these so called Muslims interpret this verse makes them enforce the punishment of severing the hand of anyone caught stealing. But is this the correct interpretation of God's words in 5:38?

To determine the correct meaning of 5:38 we analyse the key word in the verse. The key word in this verse is the Arabic word "eqta’u".

The word "eqta’u" means (you shall cut).
Similar to the English language, the word CUT in Arabic (qata'a) could mean a number of different things. From these various meanings of the word CUT, there are two meanings that are relevant to our analysis, they are the following:

1- The word CUT (qata'a) can mean to sever. This use can be demonstrated by the following sentence:

"When a baby is born, its umbilical cord must be cut (severed)."

2- The word CUT could also mean to mark, scratch or cause to bleed. This use can be demonstrated by the following sentence:

"While I was playing football I fell and CUT (marked/caused to bleed) my leg".
It is obvious from this sentence that while I was playing football, I fell and my leg was wounded, scratched, marked or made to bleed .... but not severed from my body!

When we come to analyse 5:38 and try to determine which of these two meanings is the correct meaning we can seek the evidence of other Quranic verses that use the same word CUT (qata'a) and see how it is used.

The word CUT (qata'a) is used in the Quran in numerous verses, however the verse 12:31 is perhaps a most appropriate verse to refer to for the reason that like verse 5:38, we note that in verse 12:31 the word CUT was used in connection to the cutting of the hands.

"When she heard of their gossip, she invited them, prepared for them a comfortable place, and gave each of them a knife. She then said to him, "Enter their room." When they saw him, they so admired him, that they cut their hands.* They said, "Glory be to God, this is not a human being; this is an honorable angel." 12:31

This verse (12:31) refers to the women who so admired Joseph that they "cut" their hands. Obviously, they did not sever their hands from their bodies, nobody can! Anyone attempting such a gruesome act would most definitely faint before being able to do it! What is most likely to have happened is that these women in their excitement at seeing such a handsome man as Joseph, cut (marked) their hands.

It becomes clear that the correct punishment for theft is to mark the hands of the thief so as to make an example of his deed and also act as a deterrent for him and others.

Indeed, God being the Most Merciful would not deprive a sinner (thief) from the ability to earn his living (if his hands were severed). Moreover if a thief steals a thousand dollars from you, and they put him in prison, what do you get? If the thief has a wife and children, what is their crime? Why should they be deprived of their father? Why should they suffer hardship (if the father's hands are severed)?
The Quran solves this problem, as well as the problems associated with the criminal justice systems prevalent in today's world.

Equivalence is the Law in the Quran (2:178-179). According to the Quranic criminal justice, the thief who is convicted of stealing a thousand dollars from you must work for you until you are fully paid for the thousand dollars you lost, plus any other damage and inconvenience the theft may have caused you. At the same time, the thief's innocent wife and children are not deprived of their man, and the expensive prison system is eliminated. Imprisonment is a cruel and inhumane punishment that has proven useless to all concerned.

Q:- 016.044
YUSUFALI: (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
PICKTHAL: With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.
SHAKIR: With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.


R:- [16:44] We provided them with the proofs and the scriptures. And WE SENT DOWN TO YOU THIS MESSAGE, TO PROCLAIM FOR THE PEOPLE EVERYTHING THAT IS SENT DOWN TO THEM, perhaps they will reflect.


To be continued………….
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, April 12, 2007  -  10:37 AM Reply with quote
Salam Raushan,

Q: -AS-SAARIQU WAS SAARIQATU FAAQTA'OO AIDEEHIMAA. (The male and the female thief: Cut off their hands).


R:- The punishment enforced in a number of Islamic countries for the crime of theft is based on the wrong interpretation of the following verse:

"The male thief, and the female thief, you shall "eqta’u" their hands as a punishment for their deeds, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Almighty, Wise."5:38

The way these so called Muslims interpret this verse makes them enforce the punishment of severing the hand of anyone caught stealing. But is this the correct interpretation of God's words in 5:38?

To determine the correct meaning of 5:38 we analyse the key word in the verse. The key word in this verse is the Arabic word "eqta’u".

The word "eqta’u" means (you shall cut).
Similar to the English language, the word CUT in Arabic (qata'a) could mean a number of different things. From these various meanings of the word CUT, there are two meanings that are relevant to our analysis, they are the following:

1- The word CUT (qata'a) can mean to sever. This use can be demonstrated by the following sentence:

"When a baby is born, its umbilical cord must be cut (severed)."

2- The word CUT could also mean to mark, scratch or cause to bleed. This use can be demonstrated by the following sentence:

"While I was playing football I fell and CUT (marked/caused to bleed) my leg".
It is obvious from this sentence that while I was playing football, I fell and my leg was wounded, scratched, marked or made to bleed .... but not severed from my body!

When we come to analyse 5:38 and try to determine which of these two meanings is the correct meaning we can seek the evidence of other Quranic verses that use the same word CUT (qata'a) and see how it is used.

The word CUT (qata'a) is used in the Quran in numerous verses, however the verse 12:31 is perhaps a most appropriate verse to refer to for the reason that like verse 5:38, we note that in verse 12:31 the word CUT was used in connection to the cutting of the hands.

"When she heard of their gossip, she invited them, prepared for them a comfortable place, and gave each of them a knife. She then said to him, "Enter their room." When they saw him, they so admired him, that they cut their hands.* They said, "Glory be to God, this is not a human being; this is an honorable angel." 12:31

This verse (12:31) refers to the women who so admired Joseph that they "cut" their hands. Obviously, they did not sever their hands from their bodies, nobody can! Anyone attempting such a gruesome act would most definitely faint before being able to do it! What is most likely to have happened is that these women in their excitement at seeing such a handsome man as Joseph, cut (marked) their hands.

It becomes clear that the correct punishment for theft is to mark the hands of the thief so as to make an example of his deed and also act as a deterrent for him and others.

Indeed, God being the Most Merciful would not deprive a sinner (thief) from the ability to earn his living (if his hands were severed). Moreover if a thief steals a thousand dollars from you, and they put him in prison, what do you get? If the thief has a wife and children, what is their crime? Why should they be deprived of their father? Why should they suffer hardship (if the father's hands are severed)?
The Quran solves this problem, as well as the problems associated with the criminal justice systems prevalent in today's world.

Equivalence is the Law in the Quran (2:178-179). According to the Quranic criminal justice, the thief who is convicted of stealing a thousand dollars from you must work for you until you are fully paid for the thousand dollars you lost, plus any other damage and inconvenience the theft may have caused you. At the same time, the thief's innocent wife and children are not deprived of their man, and the expensive prison system is eliminated. Imprisonment is a cruel and inhumane punishment that has proven useless to all concerned.

Q:- 016.044
YUSUFALI: (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
PICKTHAL: With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.
SHAKIR: With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.


R:- [16:44] We provided them with the proofs and the scriptures. And WE SENT DOWN TO YOU THIS MESSAGE, TO PROCLAIM FOR THE PEOPLE EVERYTHING THAT IS SENT DOWN TO THEM, perhaps they will reflect.


To be continued………….
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, April 12, 2007  -  10:38 AM Reply with quote
Salam Raushan,

Q: -AS-SAARIQU WAS SAARIQATU FAAQTA'OO AIDEEHIMAA. (The male and the female thief: Cut off their hands).


R:- The punishment enforced in a number of Islamic countries for the crime of theft is based on the wrong interpretation of the following verse:

"The male thief, and the female thief, you shall "eqta’u" their hands as a punishment for their deeds, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Almighty, Wise."5:38

The way these so called Muslims interpret this verse makes them enforce the punishment of severing the hand of anyone caught stealing. But is this the correct interpretation of God's words in 5:38?

To determine the correct meaning of 5:38 we analyse the key word in the verse. The key word in this verse is the Arabic word "eqta’u".

The word "eqta’u" means (you shall cut).
Similar to the English language, the word CUT in Arabic (qata'a) could mean a number of different things. From these various meanings of the word CUT, there are two meanings that are relevant to our analysis, they are the following:

1- The word CUT (qata'a) can mean to sever. This use can be demonstrated by the following sentence:

"When a baby is born, its umbilical cord must be cut (severed)."

2- The word CUT could also mean to mark, scratch or cause to bleed. This use can be demonstrated by the following sentence:

"While I was playing football I fell and CUT (marked/caused to bleed) my leg".
It is obvious from this sentence that while I was playing football, I fell and my leg was wounded, scratched, marked or made to bleed .... but not severed from my body!

When we come to analyse 5:38 and try to determine which of these two meanings is the correct meaning we can seek the evidence of other Quranic verses that use the same word CUT (qata'a) and see how it is used.

The word CUT (qata'a) is used in the Quran in numerous verses, however the verse 12:31 is perhaps a most appropriate verse to refer to for the reason that like verse 5:38, we note that in verse 12:31 the word CUT was used in connection to the cutting of the hands.

"When she heard of their gossip, she invited them, prepared for them a comfortable place, and gave each of them a knife. She then said to him, "Enter their room." When they saw him, they so admired him, that they cut their hands.* They said, "Glory be to God, this is not a human being; this is an honorable angel." 12:31

This verse (12:31) refers to the women who so admired Joseph that they "cut" their hands. Obviously, they did not sever their hands from their bodies, nobody can! Anyone attempting such a gruesome act would most definitely faint before being able to do it! What is most likely to have happened is that these women in their excitement at seeing such a handsome man as Joseph, cut (marked) their hands.

It becomes clear that the correct punishment for theft is to mark the hands of the thief so as to make an example of his deed and also act as a deterrent for him and others.

Indeed, God being the Most Merciful would not deprive a sinner (thief) from the ability to earn his living (if his hands were severed). Moreover if a thief steals a thousand dollars from you, and they put him in prison, what do you get? If the thief has a wife and children, what is their crime? Why should they be deprived of their father? Why should they suffer hardship (if the father's hands are severed)?
The Quran solves this problem, as well as the problems associated with the criminal justice systems prevalent in today's world.

Equivalence is the Law in the Quran (2:178-179). According to the Quranic criminal justice, the thief who is convicted of stealing a thousand dollars from you must work for you until you are fully paid for the thousand dollars you lost, plus any other damage and inconvenience the theft may have caused you. At the same time, the thief's innocent wife and children are not deprived of their man, and the expensive prison system is eliminated. Imprisonment is a cruel and inhumane punishment that has proven useless to all concerned.

Q:- 016.044
YUSUFALI: (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
PICKTHAL: With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.
SHAKIR: With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.


R:- [16:44] We provided them with the proofs and the scriptures. And WE SENT DOWN TO YOU THIS MESSAGE, TO PROCLAIM FOR THE PEOPLE EVERYTHING THAT IS SENT DOWN TO THEM, perhaps they will reflect.


To be continued………….
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, April 12, 2007  -  10:38 AM Reply with quote
Salam Raushan,

Q: -AS-SAARIQU WAS SAARIQATU FAAQTA'OO AIDEEHIMAA. (The male and the female thief: Cut off their hands).


R:- The punishment enforced in a number of Islamic countries for the crime of theft is based on the wrong interpretation of the following verse:

"The male thief, and the female thief, you shall "eqta’u" their hands as a punishment for their deeds, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Almighty, Wise."5:38

The way these so called Muslims interpret this verse makes them enforce the punishment of severing the hand of anyone caught stealing. But is this the correct interpretation of God's words in 5:38?

To determine the correct meaning of 5:38 we analyse the key word in the verse. The key word in this verse is the Arabic word "eqta’u".

The word "eqta’u" means (you shall cut).
Similar to the English language, the word CUT in Arabic (qata'a) could mean a number of different things. From these various meanings of the word CUT, there are two meanings that are relevant to our analysis, they are the following:

1- The word CUT (qata'a) can mean to sever. This use can be demonstrated by the following sentence:

"When a baby is born, its umbilical cord must be cut (severed)."

2- The word CUT could also mean to mark, scratch or cause to bleed. This use can be demonstrated by the following sentence:

"While I was playing football I fell and CUT (marked/caused to bleed) my leg".
It is obvious from this sentence that while I was playing football, I fell and my leg was wounded, scratched, marked or made to bleed .... but not severed from my body!

When we come to analyse 5:38 and try to determine which of these two meanings is the correct meaning we can seek the evidence of other Quranic verses that use the same word CUT (qata'a) and see how it is used.

The word CUT (qata'a) is used in the Quran in numerous verses, however the verse 12:31 is perhaps a most appropriate verse to refer to for the reason that like verse 5:38, we note that in verse 12:31 the word CUT was used in connection to the cutting of the hands.

"When she heard of their gossip, she invited them, prepared for them a comfortable place, and gave each of them a knife. She then said to him, "Enter their room." When they saw him, they so admired him, that they cut their hands.* They said, "Glory be to God, this is not a human being; this is an honorable angel." 12:31

This verse (12:31) refers to the women who so admired Joseph that they "cut" their hands. Obviously, they did not sever their hands from their bodies, nobody can! Anyone attempting such a gruesome act would most definitely faint before being able to do it! What is most likely to have happened is that these women in their excitement at seeing such a handsome man as Joseph, cut (marked) their hands.

It becomes clear that the correct punishment for theft is to mark the hands of the thief so as to make an example of his deed and also act as a deterrent for him and others.

Indeed, God being the Most Merciful would not deprive a sinner (thief) from the ability to earn his living (if his hands were severed). Moreover if a thief steals a thousand dollars from you, and they put him in prison, what do you get? If the thief has a wife and children, what is their crime? Why should they be deprived of their father? Why should they suffer hardship (if the father's hands are severed)?
The Quran solves this problem, as well as the problems associated with the criminal justice systems prevalent in today's world.

Equivalence is the Law in the Quran (2:178-179). According to the Quranic criminal justice, the thief who is convicted of stealing a thousand dollars from you must work for you until you are fully paid for the thousand dollars you lost, plus any other damage and inconvenience the theft may have caused you. At the same time, the thief's innocent wife and children are not deprived of their man, and the expensive prison system is eliminated. Imprisonment is a cruel and inhumane punishment that has proven useless to all concerned.

Q:- 016.044
YUSUFALI: (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
PICKTHAL: With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.
SHAKIR: With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.


R:- [16:44] We provided them with the proofs and the scriptures. And WE SENT DOWN TO YOU THIS MESSAGE, TO PROCLAIM FOR THE PEOPLE EVERYTHING THAT IS SENT DOWN TO THEM, perhaps they will reflect.


To be continued………….
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, April 12, 2007  -  10:45 AM Reply with quote
Salam sister moderator,

Q:- it is reassuring that you all are behaving now in regards to the respectable person of the prophets. if any further disrespect is shown to any of the prophets(peace be upon them) unfortunately studying islam will not tolearate this.


R:- Don't talk 'Mafia like'. We never disrespected Muhammad or any other messengers, rather you people, as I already told, are disrespecting him by disrespecting the message Qur'an, which he only brought and by this way you are continuously disrespecting him.


Q:- however you still ought to be careful using words like'rubbish' for your colleague participants' opinions; these reflect one's basic manners and again this will cause unhealthy environment for discussion which will not be acceptable.

R:- I again say 'don't talk mafia like'. I always said and say that hadith & sunnah(fabricated and falsely attributed to Muhammad) have no importance in Islam and if any one pleads for these for taking them as source of law(Islamic) then I think this pleading is nothing but RUBBISH.


Q:- following tells us clearly what is expected to be followed in the person of Muhammad pbuh/sws

R:- Qur'an does not tell us to follow the person of Muhammad or follow the Muhammad. IT clearly commands us to follow & obey the messenger i.e. his message(Qur'an for us). Muhammad's sunna(practice) was only Qur'an, which consists all religious practices. Muhammad did not invent any religious rule/talk that are not found in the Qur'an.

Q:- The Sunnah only consists of the practices initiated, by the Holy Prophet (sws), not by the Holy Qur’a#n

R:- Prophet Muhammmad did not initiated anything as religious which are not in the Qur'an.

"Your friend (Muhammad) was not astray, nor was he deceived. Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire. It was divine inspiration." 53:2-4

Samsher
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, April 12, 2007  -  10:55 AM Reply with quote
Salam sister moderator,


Q:- also it's nice to see that you came to the point now about 'person' of Muhammadsws. and what to obey. indeed this is what we have been trying to explain through this site that he had some of his likings and dislikings as human beings e.g. certain colour, food, etc. but what he was sent for is to be followed in religious capacity. hence the points given above from his practices -sunnah of rasool sws.


R:- You are slightly misunderstood sister. Pl. rectify your understanding:

" We have to obey him by obeying the message, which he only brought i.e. Qur'an" as RELIGIOUS CAPACITY. We are not bound to follow any hadith, sunnah(fabricated and falsely attributed to him) and also his likings and disliking as human beings.

Muhammed without the Quran is just another human being like us. God wants it to be very clear to obey the person that has the message, the Quran, for what he has not
for who he is.

Obey the messenger is conditional on having the message, the Quran.

Obey the messenger because of the message he has, the QURAN.

Obey the messenger means to follow his message that is given to him, the QURAN.

Muhammed without the message is just a regular human being, he frowned
and turned away when the blind poor man came to him, (See 80:1-11), he feared the people when he was supposed to fear only God, (See 33:37), and he prohibited what he should not prohibit, (See 66:1)

That is why there has never been a single order in the Quran from God,the Most Cognizant to "Obey Muhammed." If we were to obey Muhammed the human
being,(not the messenger), we were to frown at the poor, fear the people instead of God and prohibit what God did not. We are required to obey the messenger, because it is the message (QURAN) that made the obedience a requirement, not the person, Muhammed, that made it a requirement.

Those who know Arabic well know that the word (Rasool) in Arabic means both
the messenger and the message. So, when God says , obey the (Rasool) , He
means both the messenger and the message (QURAN). Both are inseparable. When the messenger, the human being is dead, the true messenger among us becomes the message itself, in this case, the QURAN. God Almighty has called the Quran (Rasool) on many occasions, e.g., 5:15, 11:1-3, 14:1, 27:2, 32:3, 34:6, 42:52, & 65:11.

One great example of the distinction between obeying the messenger (For what he has) (the Quran) and obeying the human being, is what God told Muhammed's wives; in Sura 33,

"O wives of the prophet, if any of you commits gross sin, the retribution will be doubled for her. This is easy for God to do. Any one of you who obeys GOD and His MESSENGER, and leads a righteous life, we will grant her double the recompense,
and we have prepared for her a generous provision." 33:30-31

Notice the order here for the prophet's wives to obey the Messenger, not their husband or Muhammed. If God would have said to them to obey their husband, the unconditionalobedience of the wife to her husband would have been decreed.

If God would have said, obey Muhammed, it would have made the unconditional
obedience of Muhammed a decree. God wants them and wants us to obey the messenger(for the message he has, the QURAN).

Muhammed the human being was given the great honor of being chosen the final prophetof God to deliver the final message, the QURAN, and was described as "blessed with a great moral character" in 68:4.

We, however have to remember not to make any distinction between him and the rest of God's messengers, See 2:285. We are to make the distinction between obeying him by following his message and obeying him by following allegation of what he did as a human being in his own personal life.

YES, we should obey the messenger. Those who accept the Quran accept the order from God to "obey the messenger" by following his message, the Quran ALONE. When the prophet Muhammed died, he left for us ONLY one book, the Quran.

When God told Muhammed in the Quran, "Today I completed your religion for you", Muhammed had only one book at that time, the Quran. Muhammed gave us one kind of
Islam, that we can find in the book of God, the Quran. He did not leave for us the other sects of Sunni, Shiite, Ahmaddya, Ismailis…etc. These sects were created when the Muslims looked for the books of hadiths and sunna to supplement the book of God. In doing so, they willingly or unwillingly declared that they do not trust God in His own book. The book that God described as complete, perfect, fully detailed and having details of everything. See 12:111 By doing so, all these sects left God’s kingdom and joined the same groups who previously corrupted the other religions of God, Judaism and Christianity. It is very interesting to know that God gave us this prophecy in the Quran and told us the messenger will complain to Him on the Last Day that "My people have deserted this Quran." 25:30

"...this is not a fabricated Hadith, this (QURAN) confirms all previous scriptures,provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe." 12:111

Samsher
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Thursday, April 12, 2007  -  3:33 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Salam Raushan,

Q: -AS-SAARIQU WAS SAARIQATU FAAQTA'OO AIDEEHIMAA. (The male and the female thief: Cut off their hands). ...
..........
It becomes clear that the correct punishment for theft is to mark the hands of the thief so as to make an example of his deed and also act as a deterrent for him and others.


it is clear now you "need explanation "and "give explanation"to understand and "to make others understand".
why you do so when everything is" detailed and clear".Isnt your explanation 'a source' other than Quran to understand verses?
You cant go both way man!
take care
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, April 12, 2007  -  7:03 PM Reply with quote
quote:

why you do so when everything is" detailed and clear".Isnt your explanation 'a source' other than Quran to understand verses?
You cant go both way man!
take care


It's quite funny to hear!!!
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Friday, April 13, 2007  -  10:51 AM Reply with quote
Salam raushan,

Q:- it is clear now you "need explanation "and "give explanation"to understand and "to make others understand".
why you do so when everything is" detailed and clear". Isnt your explanation 'a source' other than Quran to understand verses?
You cant go both way man!

R:- Alas!!What a man with CHICKEN IQ you brother!!!! Qur’an is fully detailed, but that does not mean we can’t use our brain to understand It. We need to read IT(whole) with proper understanding. It is Almighty God who explains the Qur’an to everyone, who understand. "Most Gracious! Taught the Quran. He created humankind, and taught them power of expression" (55:1-4). Thus humans are dependent upon "power of expression" to communicate with other humans and definitely, to communicate verbally………..

[75:18-19] Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran. Then IT IS WE WHO WILL EXPLAIN IT.


[6:105] WE THUS EXPLAIN THE REVELATIONS, TO PROVE THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED KNOWLEDGE, AND TO CLARIFY THEM FOR PEOPLE WHO KNOW.


[30:28] He cites for you herein an example from among yourselves: Do you ever elevate your servants or subordinates to the level where they rival you, and to the point that you pay them as much allegiance as is being paid to you? WE THUS EXPLAIN THE REVELATIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND.


Brother, thus you can’t label OUR KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING etc. as another source(s) of Islam. In this connection please read carefully my post sent on Monday, March 26, 2007 regarding the example of Arabic language, parents, uncles etc.etc.. Brother, one thing I tell you that you should at first learn ABC of islam before joining any discussion forum. Do you not read or understand the meaning of the following verses?

[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE HEARING, THE EYESIGHT, AND THE BRAIN, AND YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR USING THEM.


[8:22] The worst creatures in the sight of GOD are the DEAF AND DUMB, WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND.


[2:170] When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?


[2:171] THE EXAMPLE OF SUCH DISBELIEVERS IS THAT OF PARROTS WHO REPEAT WHAT THEY HEAR OF SOUNDS AND CALLS, WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING. DEAF, DUMB, AND BLIND; THEY CANNOT UNDERSTAND.


I think it is useless to discuss with you about Islam because you even don’t know what does mean to say “Source of Islam”. Brother our SOURCE OF ISLAM is ONLY ONE THING i.e. Qur’an. But to understand the Qur’an we need to Read It very carefully with pure mind. Now can any one claims that 'as reading is required to understand Qur'an', so reading is another source(as through it we understand the Qur'an)??? NO Brother, it will be absurd claim.

May God Bless you


Samsher
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, April 16, 2007  -  6:28 AM Reply with quote
its nice to see this forum active. a very imp. topic to understand--the sources of islam

After the Holy Qur’a#n, the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (sws) is the source of faith in Islam.

It needs to be appreciated that all higher religions, in addition to their sacred texts, have a set of rites, rituals, manners, mores, etiquette and religious practices. Together with the doctrine and the conceptual content contained in the scriptures, these practices form the whole religion. Islam also has a set of such practices. These practices are not all of equal importance. Some of them are considered mandatory while the others just introduce manners or etiquette or they are symbolic in nature, signifying larger realities of faith. Among all such practices and mores, the most dear to the Muslims are those that

• are essentially religious in nature
• were instituted by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (sws), (who is the only personality in Islam having the right to declare anything religious) and
• have reached us through the reliable historical process of tawa'tur.


This means

1. When we say that the Sunnah has reached us to Tawa'tur we mean to say that so that such a large number of people have transmitted the Sunnah acts in each generation starting from the Companions (rta) that the Sunnah acts have bee rendered beyond any alteration in any manner).

These practices are called the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (sws).

Since Islam claims to have been the religion of all humanity since Adam (sws), and claims that Noah (sws), Abraham (sws), Moses (sws), David (sws) and Jesus (sws) were all Muslims, it immediately comes forward to lay claim on the entire heritage of these noble personalities. For Muslims, however, the personality of Abraham (sws) is of particular importance.


Abraham (sws) stands at the junction where three world religions meet. He is revered by all the three Semitic faiths - Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The religious practices initiated by Abraham (sws) (of course under divine guidance) are of particular significance to Islam.

The religious rites and rituals instituted by the Holy Prophet Muhammad (sws) are almost the same as those included in Abraham’s tradition of faith.
The teachings of Abraham (sws) were conveyed to his sons among whom his first-born Isma#’i#l (sws) finally settled down in Arabia where Bani# Isma#‘i#l (children of Isma#‘i#l) lived and multiplied. Abraham’s younger son Isaac (sws), and Isaac’s son Yaqoob (Israel) founded the clan of Bani# Isra‘i#l (Children of Israel).


Abraham’s teachings and practices were inherited by both the tribes, which developed independently.


contd:


Edited by: hkhan on Monday, April 16, 2007 9:45 AM
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, April 18, 2007  -  6:42 PM Reply with quote
hkhan,

your whims and wishes have NO at all any place in Islam!!!

continued......
StudentAffairs

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Wednesday, April 18, 2007  -  6:53 PM Reply with quote
contd:

The impact of Abraham’s teachings is conspicuous in the history, faith and practice of the Jews, in the form of prayers, fasts, circumcision etc. These practices have in fact remained the single most important distinguishing feature between the Jews and the Gentiles (non-Jews). During the days of Jesus (sws), it was extremely convenient for the Jews to divide the world population on the basis of a practice that began with Abraham (sws), i.e. circumcision. The Jews split the entire population into those who were circumcised and those who were not. The Jews were required to remain fastened to Abraham’s tradition, and came to be known as the progeny of Abraham (sws). In fact their identity as a separate nation owes itself to the personality of Abraham (sws).

ii. Definition

Literally, Sunnah in Arabic means ‘well trodden path’. However as a religious term its definition is as follows:

Sunnah is the set of ‘traditions of Prophet Abraham’ (Sunan-i-Ibrahimi) which the Holy Prophet Muhammad (sws) revived, and after corrections and additions, instituted in his followers as integral part of the faith (the Din).

The Holy Qur’an states:

And then we revealed unto you [the command] to follow the religion of Abraham, who was steadfast and was not one of the polytheists. (16:123)


History of pre-Islamic Arabia is rich with frequent references to a number of religious and social practices which, the Arabs proudly attributed to their forefather Abraham (sws).

It is however apparent that these practices were transformed during the centuries of post-Abrahamic era. The transformations were largely the result of weakening of traditions and the gradual adoption of polytheistic ideas and rituals.

The verse of the Holy Qur’an quoted above stipulates that the Holy Prophet (sws) was to follow the Abrahamic Tradition. The Holy Prophet (sws) therefore gradually re-introduced these practices in their true spirit. He modified, amended and revived them, and induced his followers to practice them meticulously. These practices constitute the Sunnah, and were widely promoted and emphasized by the Holy Prophet (sws). He ensured that his immediate followers adopted them fully and perfectly.

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