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Alexander

PHILIPPINES
Posted - Monday, November 13, 2006  -  10:41 PM Reply with quote
Assalamualakom

Alhamdulillah, our forum is great for it is very informative. I am a student in this website and I consider my self ignorant in as much as our religion is concerned. I pray to Almighty Allah to guide us all in the straight path. Here in our country, Philippines, it is my first time to encounter people like samsher, Usman, Tariq and the rest ( sorry I could not enumerate you all) with such brilliance. For me, the way I understand the Quran fully detailed and compelete is like how the most Muslims and non Muslims understand it. The scientific miracles of the Qur'an is NOT fully detailed but indeed it is a miracle. Like the Big Bang Theory and the Embryo Genesis. Those made me believe that it is fully detailed in the sense that it can be understood by people who have faith.

I don't intend to participate in your discussion brothers and sister for I am not a learned however you guys encouraged me to seek further knowledge. Thank you and me Allah Guide us all.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, November 14, 2006  -  10:15 AM Reply with quote
QUOTE of Perv 1: - Not only you have a very poor understanding of Islam but also very poor understanding, of your supposed field, medicine.

First of all, I want to clear that I have not addressed YOU and if you have replied then I have all the rights to reply, which is as under.

1. Regarding the Islamic knowledge, I don’t say to be a knowledgeable but NOT as worst as you are!

2. If you are not incorrect and illiterate regarding the subject, “Could you please guide regarding the protocol of the research and furthermore which branch of science (medical) is responsible for such work?” “And also could you please tell me how many of your papers have been published and how many you have presented or read in the various conferences and how many are pending?”

You must know very well that even in all parts of the exams of e.g. MRCS, MRCOG, FRCS or FRCOG etc, there is NOTHING something like thesis/dissertation or research work in their curriculums or the training. Isn’t it?

Furthermore, REMEMBER, “If you are a medical doctor (which is very UNLIKELY) even then you have NOT EVEN a ZERO percent respect near me if you don’t respect me”. Also, remember, if you are failing to try to divert the attention of some readers, “Do you consider them as laymen as YOU are?”

NOTE: For getting further help from you, if YOU CAN, I will DO Insh’Allah comment and question you regarding your irrational replies about the health problems in the concerned forums. This is your home work of today and start today to avoid facing any DIFFICULTY.

I am wondered to know that the people like you NOT knowing even the commonest differential diagnosis of the given clinical scenario, try to give the opinions, alas! Don’t worry, we will Insh’Allah discuss in detail with the QUOTES in the relevant forums, NOT here. Wait please.

Wassalaam!

*************************

NOW my following post is not only for Sk Samasir Ali but for you as well i.e. every YOU addresses you too!
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, November 14, 2006  -  3:47 PM Reply with quote
Salaam leveall
It is obvious from your answer you have very little knowldge of research & medicine. How exactly do you wish to research effects of camel urine on diseases by asking the appropriate authorities. do you have a particular disease in mind for their are million of diseases. If you had done any meaningful research you would not make the statement that you did. It is a statement that only someone without any medical knowldge would make or someone who is trying to falsley impress a layman.
someone who needs to keep reffering to their own qualifications has a very weak point so needs to bloster it with his/her qualifications.

quote:

If you are not incorrect and illiterate regarding the subject, “Could you please guide regarding the protocol of the research and furthermore which branch of science (medical) is responsible for such work?” “And also could you please tell me how many of your papers have been published and how many you have presented or read in the various conferences and how many are pending?”


Normally i have no desire to state my qualifications, strength/weakness of your point should be suficent. However as you have asked: I have over a dozen publications of original research in BMJ, Lancet & BJOG. I have made hunderds presentations including International forums (There are many on this forum who personally know me). HOWEVER IN WAY DO I CONSIDER THIS TO BE OF ANY RELEVANCE..As I believe each point should be judged on its merit not because the person stating has X number of qualifications.
From what you have written I would be very upset if you started rspecting me.
So please take it from me I have very little desire for your respect.
regards
oosman

USA
Posted - Tuesday, November 14, 2006  -  4:23 PM Reply with quote
I request everyone to stop the name calling and please stop using the word 'layman' in derogatory terms, or 'faggot', 'idol worshipper', 'blind' or anything else like that. It does not suit a believer to stoop low and do name calling.

To loveall, it comes as a surprise to me that you are willing to debunk a hadith based on some scientific evidence. As far as I know about hadith, the proper way to debunk one is to see if there is a discredited person in the isnad.

If today it is mediacally, scientifically found that camel urine is no good, then you will debunk the hadith? What if tomorrow scientists discover that it is actually good and earlier researcher made a mistake, then will you say the hadith is authentic? Will you flip flop based on scientific research?

Religion does not depend on the work of scientists that may be flawed.
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, November 14, 2006  -  5:48 PM Reply with quote
Salaam oosman

quote:

I request everyone to stop the name calling and please stop using the word 'layman' in derogatory terms, or 'faggot', 'idol worshipper', 'blind' or anything else like that. It does not suit a believer to stoop low and do name calling.


You are good person and I wish I had as much tolerance as you... occassionally my ego gets the better of me (Which I am not proud).
I hope I have not called anyone names, my use of layman was purely to describe a non medical person, because the term in the UK medical faternity is used to describe a non medic and is not meant to be offensive. Although I appreciate in different regions same word can have different quonotations.
I am also sorry to see the forums are stooping to such depths that any disagreement is meant with such vile reaction.
As for my post questioning lovealls medical knowldge... I have no intention to discuss anything with the likes of him (I neither have the time or inclination)but it was purely for the non medics who in this forum might think there is some merit in camel urine having medicinl properties.
Also I am not proud of having to respond to his jibe about academia.... It is just refuge for those who cannot make a logical statement but need to hide behind there profession or qualifications. Self praise is no more than psychological weakness and huge number of hang ups.
Anhow you carry on as you are....bringing much needed Islamic manners to this forum.... one does not become a muslim because one claims to be one but by ones actions and behaviour.
I have no hesitation in apologising to anyone where i have been rude.
You take care
regards
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Tuesday, November 14, 2006  -  7:29 PM Reply with quote
sorry

quote:

HOWEVER IN WAY DO I CONSIDER THIS TO BE OF ANY RELEVANCE


should have read IN NO way.
Zulfee

USA
Posted - Wednesday, November 15, 2006  -  10:36 AM Reply with quote
The post has been removed due to execcive length. Please summarize and resend.However if it remains more than A4 page size, please send to Articles section for review.
If you wish to have a copy your post back, it can be sent via email.
Thank you

Edited by: ibrahim on Friday, March 09, 2007 5:23 AM
Rakhtal

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, November 15, 2006  -  1:47 PM Reply with quote
See importance of hadith here
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/scienceofhadith/atit.html
Asim2

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, November 16, 2006  -  10:42 AM Reply with quote
Check out the resources on Qur'an, Sunnah and Hadith available at:

http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com
Asim2

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, November 16, 2006  -  11:16 AM Reply with quote
Hadith issues:

http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com/hadeeth.htm
Asim2

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, November 18, 2006  -  4:07 PM Reply with quote
Many resources to prove importance of Hadith / Hadeeth given at

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd/hadeeth.htm

http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com/hadeeth.htm

Also check out links including some books on this issue.

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd

http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com

The above links can be expanded further. If you know any other link on importance of Hadith post here.

Some links from my website are being pasted below :

Authentic Hadith defense:

http://ccminc.faithweb.com/iqra/articles/authsun/index.html (Detailed book proving Authentic Hadith using Qur'an , historical evidence and more...)

www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/ (Hadith defense resources with evidences)

www.ahya.org/news/chadeeth.pdf (The compilation of Hadith)(NEW)



http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?art icleid=259&page=10 (Hadith defense section from an authoritative exposition by Abdur Raheem Green)

www.islamtomorrow.com/hadeeth/index.asp (10 Hadith questions and more…)

http://muslim-canada.org/ch2hamid.html (Preservation of the original teachings of Islam)(NEW)

www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/ (various resources)

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd/hadeeth.htm (Many Ayaat translations to support Authentic Hadith defense)

www.whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3772&PN=1 (Preservation and importance of Hadith)

www.islaam.com/Section.aspx?id=8 (articles on Sunnah defense)

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?art icleid=312

Hadith predictions: (Miraculous)
www.signsofthelastday.com/hadiths.html
www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=73
www.jesuswillreturn.com/signs/signs_index.html

Note: Highlighting, bold text and underlined text at important areas which is necessary for viewing the following article of mine was lsot during copy paste. So to read the highlighted version which highlights important portions of the Ayaat translations, you must visit:

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd/hadeeth.htm

proofs of finality: Finality of Prophethood: www.irshad.org/finality.php , www.ymsite.com/books/fop/index.htm , www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/finalprophet.html )
(For commentary and references to many other Ayaat on Hadith defense see book Authority of Sunnah (the first link in Authentic Hadith defense section))
(for commentary of many of the Ayaat I have quoted see the first link in the authentic Hadith defense section on the home page)
More examples are mentioned in the book The authority of Sunnah by Taqi Usmani and is freely available online. See first link in authentic Hadith defense section.
"An Index to the Qur'an" freely available for download and free access at www.harunyahya.com)
www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd/hadeeth.htm
http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com/hadeeth.htm

Edited by: ibrahim on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:28 AM
Asim2

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, November 20, 2006  -  10:12 AM Reply with quote
1. Your translations are manipulated and anyone can easily prove it by comparing it to any popular translation that your translations have clear errors and manipulations.

2. Your comments and opinions are your own and your quotations are mistranslated and out of context.
So we are not required to even read your comments.

3. The only thing we can do to your posts is see the references of Ayaat you quoted and check them up using the popular and well know translations, check their context and compare them to other Ayaat on the subject not your Rashad Khalifa's translation who claimed to be a prophet and is out of Isam.

4. Who are you to explain what obedience is. The word is crystal clear. Obedience means obedience.

5. And almost 41 pages of this forum are filled with your commentary and repetition things again and again.

You claim to be Qur'an only but you are the one using too much commentary to justify your twisted understanding.

You should have simply quoted references i.e. Surah number and Ayat number and rest should have let Qur'an speak for itself.

So you may keep talking and wasting your time and others' here . While I would rather like to help users find more evidences by updating the Hadith defense section as much as possible with even more evidences. Insha'ALLAH! at :
http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com/hadeeth.htm

and

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd/hadeeth.htm

So all viewers are invited to throughly read the evidences provided at:

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd/hadeeth.htm

and don't waste your time here.

Some questions for Qur'an only cult:

Q1. How do you translate the Qur'an using The Qur'an only?

Q2. How do you obey the Qur'an using The Qur'an only?

Q3. How do you implement The Qur'an using The Qur'an only?

Q4. Is it possible to translate the Qur'an using the Qur'an only and nothing else?

Q5. How do you offer Salat and define Zakat using The Qur'an only?

Q6. How do you learn the details of Hajj using the Qur'an only?

Q7. Do you think the Qur'an has been preserved for decoration or is it preserved to be followed totally?

Q8. How do you explain the Qur'an using the Qur'an only?

Q9. Who gave you the authority to interpret the Qur'an according to your baseless whims and desires?

Q10. How do you know how to get married officially using the Qur'an only?

Q11. How do you decide how to dispose the dead using the Qur'an only? Maybe some of you bury them plagiarizing the method of the Muslims who follow the Hadith , maybe you burn them like some Hindus , or may be something else?

Q12. Whatever manipulation, mistranslation and whims and desire games you play with the words like salat, zakat, hajj, etc...how does each and every person follow the above orders using the Qur'an only in the exact unique way. I am not talking about literal meanings from 19th century CE lexicons. I am talking about the evidence on which your interpretations are supposed to be based. Suppose you translate the word then how does each and every Quranite follow the exact interpretation and follow the above orders? Now you see each Quranite is a unique sect in his own as no 2 Quranites offer salat, give zakat and offer hajj in the same way?

Q13. This life is a test for the Infinite hereafter. How does each individual Quran only person sell this life for the Infinite Hereafter?

Q14. Why wasn't the Qur'an sent down as a book directly to the Arabs who knew Arabic well?

Q15. Why was the Qur'an sent via Prophet Muhammad (ALLAH's Mercy, Blessings and peace be upon him)?

Q16. If the Qur'an can be understood as it should be by any human being then the Arabs were the best people capable of understanding it as it was in their language. If for their understanding a Messenger (ALLAH's Mercy, Blessings and peace be upon him) was necessary then how can the so called Quran only people claim to understand the Quran whose mother tongue is not Arabic, who don't know Quranic Arabic well, who ignore the interpretation and implementation of Prophet Muhammad (ALLAH's Mercy, Blessings and peace be upon him), his Noble Companions etc...?

Q17. Was the Qur'an sent down for all times to come till the day of Judgement or only for the Arabs of that time? For all times to come. OK ... So why does it have so many orders on obeying, following Prophet Muhammad (ALLAH's Mercy, Blessings and peace be upon him) and many similar crystal clear orders? See article on Hadith for details of some of these orders. Are all these orders merely decoration pieces for us or are they to be followed as the Qur'an has been preserved for a good reason and not for decoration?

Q18. Why don't you think about it?

and more at: Click the following link to read the remaining article and read it with highlighting, emphasis etc...

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd/quranonlycults.htm

Edited by: ibrahim on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:36 AM
Asim2

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, November 20, 2006  -  10:24 AM Reply with quote
And :

Finality of Prophethood: (NO new prophets. Defeating Qadianis, followers of Rashad Khalifa & other heretic cults)

www.irshad.org/finality.php ( www.irshad.org is a web site containing many resources for defeating Qadianis and other heretic cults) . External links to refute Qadianis : www.irshad.org/other/ext_res.php

www.ymsite.com/books/fop/index.htm

www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/finalprophet.html

For latest updated information and links keep checking :

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd

and

http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com
Asim2

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, November 20, 2006  -  10:31 AM Reply with quote
And now you all must read the detailed evidences and links prestented at:

www.geocities.com/asimiqbal2nd/hadeeth.htm

http://asimiqbal.2.googlepages.com/hadeeth.htm
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, November 21, 2006  -  6:35 AM Reply with quote
The Difference Between the Qur-aan and Ahaadeeth Qudseeyah

Ash Shaykh Al ‘Allaamah Saaleh al Fawzaan

Question: What is the difference between a Hadeeth Qudsee and the Hadeeth of the Messenger (صلى الله عليه و سلم)? And what is the difference between the Qur-aan and Ahadeeth Qudseeyah?

Answer: Hadeeth Al Qudsee is that which the prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) narrated from Allaah ‘Azza Wa Jall with Allaah’s own wording and His meaning, and other than Hadeeth Al Qudsee is that which the meaning of, is revelation from Allaah and the wording is from the Messenger (صلى الله عليه و سلم) just as Allaah Ta 'ala said:

"He doesn't speak from his own accord rather it is only revelation revealed to him[53/3]
"



There are many differences between the Qur-aan and Hadeeth al Qudsee:

Firstly: The Qur-aan is a Miracle and Hadeeth al Qudsi is not a miracle in it’s wording.

Secondly: Recitation of the Qur-aan is a form of worship and there is no worship with the reading of Hadeeth al Qudsee.

Thirdly: The Qur-aan is Mutawaatir and it is not necessary that the Hadeeth al Qudsee be Mutawaatir.

Fourthly: None can touch the Qur-aan except one who is pure (in a state of purification) and there is no problem in touching the Hadeeth al Qudsee if you are not in a state of purification.

.


Translated by: Abu Az-Zubayr Shadeed Muhammad
.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


س: ما الفرق بين الحديث القدسي وحديث الرسول صلى الله عليه و سلم؟ وما الفرق بين القرآن و الحديث القدسي؟

ج: الحديث القدسي هو الذي يرويه النبي عليه السلام عن الله عز وجل بلفظه ومعناه, والحديث غير القدسي هو الذي يكون معناه وحيا من الله, ولفظه من النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم كما قال تعالى: وما ينطق عن الهوى إن هو إلا وحى يوحى. و هناك عدة الفروق: أولا: القرآن معجز, والحديث القدسي ليس من المعجز بلفظه. ثانيا: القرآن متعبد بتلاوته, والحديث القدسي ليس متعبدا بتلاوته. ثالثا: القرآن متواتر, والحديث القدسي لا يلزم أن يكون متواترا. رابعا: القرآن لا يمسه إلا طاهر, والحديث القدسي لا بأس بمسه من غير طاهرة.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, November 22, 2006  -  11:41 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

I am on tour. I shall come back after two weeks. Till then good bye.

Samsher

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