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Posted - Tuesday, August 7, 2007  -  7:02 PM Reply with quote
Most humbly bro, In my opinion bro Mujahid did not answer because his question remains unanswered. The link you quoted gives importance of salah , please explain where it tells how to say the salah and what are the contents or essentials of salah. So when did you answer the question. Please tell me about the details of ablution in Qur'an,what about the Kalima taht makes a person Muslim Muslim? in Qur'an.

Posted - Tuesday, August 7, 2007  -  7:05 PM Reply with quote
Mosat respectfully bro there is a differance between writing an answer and claiming that you have answered a question and giving an answer that is relevant to the discussion. The question asked was specific, please quote the verses of Qur'an that detail how to perform salah and also detail the contents of slah. That question in my opinion remains unanswered.

Posted - Tuesday, August 7, 2007  -  7:13 PM Reply with quote
“In what manner do they offer their regular salat? Do they maintain the TONE of salat as specified in verse 17:110 when they offer their regular salat?

According to Islahi, Mushrakeen's way of prayers was to make a loud of noise, in contrast for muslims religion is a serious affair and entails being serious and respectful. Thus Muslims were instructed that their salah and prayers are neither too loud and nor to quiet but somewhere in between.

Posted - Wednesday, August 8, 2007  -  12:33 PM Reply with quote
Salam brother,

Q:- According to Islahi, Mushrakeen's way of prayers was to make a loud of noise, in contrast for muslims religion is a serious affair and entails being serious and respectful. Thus Muslims were instructed that their salah and prayers are neither too loud and nor to quiet but somewhere in between.

R:- Not clear brother. Please clarify again.

I have given all the details about sala several times in this forum. If any one tries, he can find these easily by reading my posts. But it seems to me that some people like you do not have any time to find it, but to shout. Please go through the following links to know the details about sala;









If anything else, please inform me.


Posted - Wednesday, August 8, 2007  -  1:24 PM Reply with quote
salam bro. Yet again despite all these links I am unable to decipher how to say namaz and what to pray in namaz.

Posted - Thursday, August 9, 2007  -  1:25 PM Reply with quote
You cannot find it because you are looking for something that is not there. You should look at what the holy Quran is saying and not try to find things that it is not saying.

Posted - Tuesday, August 14, 2007  -  9:57 AM Reply with quote

Do you have another book to uphold? In it, do you find anything you want? [68:38]


Salam to All,

Qur'an is Fully Detailed, Complet and the Only Source of Law/Guidance for us;

"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?....The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words.....[6:114-115]

If all the trees on earth were made into pens, and the ocean supplied the ink, augmented by seven more oceans, the words of GOD would not run out. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise[31:27]

"If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out, even if we double the ink supply." [18:109]

"O you who believe, do not ask about matters which, if revealed to you prematurely, would hurt you. If you ask about them in light of the Quran, they will become obvious to you. GOD has deliberately overlooked them. GOD is Forgiver, Clement. [5:101]

"Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters." [3:84]

"You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it".[18:27)

"Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you all do".[33:2]

Those who do not believe

They follow idols who decree for them religious laws never authorized by GOD...... .[42:21]

"When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided? The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand. [2:170-171]

"Are they seeking other than GOD's religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?" [3:83]


Posted - Tuesday, August 14, 2007  -  9:59 AM Reply with quote

You cannot find it because you are looking for something that is not there. You should look at what the holy Quran is saying and not try to find things that it is not saying.




Posted - Friday, August 17, 2007  -  8:28 AM Reply with quote
S its good that you have agreed with oosman-finally-who has beautifully conveyed to you above that the method of praying is not given in Qur'an. this is what the other forum participants are trying to explain that the practices of the prophets sws have done this job and Qur'an only mentions the prayers briefly-details available in the latter.

Sources of ~Religion

Sources of Islam

Javed Ahmad Ghamidi

Islam is the guidance which was first inspired by the Almighty in human nature and after that it was given by Him with all details to mankind through His prophets. Muhammad (sws) is the last of these prophets. Consequently, it is now he alone who in this world is the sole source of this religion. It is only through him that man can receive divine guidance and it is only he who, through his words, deeds or tacit approvals, has the authority to regard something as part of Islam until the Day of Judgement. The Qur’an says:

هُوَ الَّذِي بَعَثَ فِي الْأُمِّيِّينَ رَسُولًا مِّنْهُمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ (2:62)

It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from amongst themselves who rehearses upon them His verses and purifies them and for this he instructs them in shari‘ah and in hikmah. (62:2)

It is this shari‘ah (law) and this hikmah (wisdom) which is termed as “Islam”. The source of this religion is the Prophet Muhammad (sws) from whom it has been given to the ummah through the consensus of his Companions (rta) and through their perpetual practice and perpetual recitation in two forms:

1. The Qur’an

2. The Sunnah

1. The Qur’an

Every Muslim knows that the Qur’an was revealed by Allah to Muhammad (sws) – the last of the prophets – and it has since then remained with the ummah with the unanimous verdict from the ummah itself that it is this very book which was revealed to the Prophet (sws), and which his Companions (rta), through their consensus and through their perpetual recitation, delivered to the world without the slightest alteration.



Edited by: hkhan on Monday, August 20, 2007 2:21 PM

Posted - Friday, August 17, 2007  -  1:52 PM Reply with quote
Salam mr/miss.h.khan.

Reply:- You had overlooked the main point, which Mr. oosman tried to convey you type of people regarding which I am totally agreed with Mr. oosman i.e. he tried to say you type of people that "You should look at what the holy Quran is saying...." , but you people are so blind that you could not see/understand the meaning of this simple sentence. It is your misfortune.


Posted - Monday, August 20, 2007  -  2:29 PM Reply with quote
ps: my post was longer than A4 size, have therefore split into two.vide infra.
(participants are reminded of the code of conduct whilst using words like'blind' and 'your type' for forum colleagues. plz note that if such were repeated, the registration will be cancelled without further notice which will be sad for us, but is necessary for the wider interest of the site. wassala'm)

2. The Sunnah

By Sunnah is meant that tradition of Prophet Abraham’s (sws) religion which the Prophet Muhammad (sws) instituted among his followers as religion after reviving and reforming it and after making certain additions to. The Qur’an has directed Muhammad (sws) to obey this Abrahamic tradition in the following words:

ثُمَّ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ أَنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (123:16)

Then We revealed to you to follow the ways of Abraham, who was true in faith and was not among the polytheists. (16:123)

The following portion of Islam has been given to us through the Sunnah:

Worship Rituals

i. The Prayer

ii. Zakah and Sadqah of ‘Id al-Fitr

iii. Fasting and ‘Itikaf

iv. Hajj and ‘Umrah

v. Animal Sacrifice and the takbirs during the days of tashriq1

Social Sphere

i. Marriage and Divorce and their relevant details

ii. Abstention from coitus during the menstrual and the puerperal period

Dietary Sphere

i. Prohibition of pork, blood, meat of dead animals and animals slaughtered in the name of someone other than Allah

ii. Slaughtering in the prescribed manner of tadhkiyah by taking Allah’s name


Edited by: hkhan on Monday, August 20, 2007 2:32 PM

Posted - Monday, August 20, 2007  -  2:33 PM Reply with quote

Customs and Etiquette

i. Remembering Allah’s name before eating or drinking and using the right hand for eating and drinking

ii. Greeting one another with assalamu ‘alaykum (peace be to you) and responding with wa ‘alaykum al-salam (and peace be to you)

iii. Saying alhamdu lilah (praise be to Allah) after sneezing and responding to it by saying yarhamu kallah (may Allah have mercy on you)

iv. Saying adhan in the right ear of a new born baby and saying ‘iqamah in its left ear

v. Keeping moustaches trimmed

vi. Shaving pubic hair

vii. Shaving the hairs under the armpits

ix. Circumcising the male offspring

x. Cleaning the nose, the mouth and the teeth

xi. Cleaning the body after excretion

xii. Bathing after the menstrual and the puerperal period

xiii. Ghusl-i Janabah2

xiv. Bathing the dead before burial

xv. Enshrouding a dead body and preparing it for burial

xvi. Burying the dead

xvii. ‘Id al-Fitr

xviii. ‘Id al-Adha

This is all what the Sunnah is, and it can be said with certainty that there is no difference between it and the Qur’an as far as their authenticity is concerned. Just as the Qur’an has been received by ummah through the consensus of the Prophet’s Companions (rta) and through their perpetual recitation, the Sunnah has been received by it through their consensus and through their perpetual practice and stands validated like the Qur’an in every period of time through the consensus of the ummah. Consequently, there is no doubt or debate about it now.

All that is Islam is constituted by these two sources. Nothing besides these two is Islam or can be regarded as its part.

A narrative of the words, deeds or tacit approvals of the Prophet (sws) called Hadith and the knowledge gained from them can never be regarded as absolutely certain. Hence, a Hadith does not add anything to the content of Islam stated in the Qur’an and Sunnah. Ahadith (plural of Hadith) only explain and elucidate what is contained in these two sources and also describe the exemplary way in which the Prophet (sws) followed Islam. This only is the sphere of Hadith which falls within the ambit of Islam. Outside this sphere, there exists no narrative which can be called or accepted as Hadith.

Within this sphere, however, every person who after being convinced of a Hadith accepts it as one containing the words, deeds or tacit approvals of the Prophet must follow it. In no circumstances can he evade or ignore it; in fact, it becomes incumbent upon him to accept any directive or decision of the Prophet (sws) depicted in that Hadith.

(Translated from Ghamidi’s Mizan by Shehzad Saleem)

adapted from Monthly Renaissance July 06

Posted - Thursday, August 23, 2007  -  12:17 PM Reply with quote
Dear All,

Have any code of conduct in the world, which hinders to say the Truth ??? I think there is none, but Mr./Miss.khan(moderator) had invented this type of code of conduct!!! Very very laughing…

Mr./Miss khan has given a long list of Islamic rituals which came to us(according to him/her) from Sunnah of Prophet( invented word because in the whole Qur’an no one can find such word i.e. Sunnah of Prophet), BUT NOT FROM QUR’AN !!! Yet he/she claimed these(the list) are Islamic, which is also very laughing!!!

I think Mr./Miss. Khan ONCE AGAIN requires to give special attention to the followings points with open mind, not blocked with fabricated sunnah/hadith and tries to understand the proper meaning of these;

"Then We revealed to you THIS scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and SUPERSEDING them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. FOR EACH OF YOU, WE HAVE DECREED DIFFERENT ‘SHIRA’A WA MINHAJA’ (laws and rites). Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus Puts You To The Test Through The Revelations He Has Given Each Of You…(5:48).

Here we note 3 very important messages:


"We revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations"

These words confirm that We Are Commanded To Follow What Was Revealed To Us (Quran) and NOTHING else ….. In this verse the Quran is given the function of "confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them" ……. This asserts the fact that WHAT WAS GIVEN TO THOSE BEFORE US HAS NOW BEEN REPLACED BY THE QURAN. We Are Thus Accountable Only To What Is Revealed To Us (Quran) …. And not what was given to Abraham or the others. To insist that we are following rituals that we inherited from as far back as Abraham is in violation of the words "superseding them" that describe the Quran in 5:48


The words "For Each Of You, We Have Decreed Laws And Different Rites." Tell Us That The Rituals Given To Each People (Including Us) Are Not Identical To The Ones Given To Those Before Them. As a result, and although we all follow the same creed of Monotheism and submission to God (Islam), yet the specific rituals and practices are different for different people.


Moreover, the words "He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you." tell us a truly important matter. Here we are told that even though some (or all) of the rituals may have been passed down to us from those who came before us, Yet God Will Test Us And Hold Us Accountable By Means Of The Revelation He Revealed To Us (Quran) And Not What Was Given To Those Before Us. ACCORDING TO THESE WORDS IN 5:48, WE SHALL BE TESTED BY THE LAWS, REGULATIONS AND RITES THAT WERE GIVEN TO US IN THE QURAN, AND NOT WHAT WE INHERITED FROM THOSE BEFORE US.

If we take a look at the verses leading to 5:48 we note that God holds each receivers of a Scripture accountable only to what they were given in their Scripture, and not to what was given to those before them:

In 5:44 we read that God gave the prophets of Israel the Torah and commanded them to rule with it (Yahkum biha) ..... the last words in the verse give this warning : (those who do not rule with God's revelations are the disbelievers) ....

Then in verse 46 God says that He gave Jesus the Injeel and once again (in verse 47) God repeats the warning He gave to the receivers of the Injeel, the warning about those who do not rule in accordance with the revelation given to them .....

Then (in verses 48 and 49) God tells Muhammad that He gave him the Quran and that he should rule (Bima Anzal Allah) ..... the very first words in verse 48 confirm that (ma Anzal Allah) means the Quran (Kitaab) and nothing else .....

This time the warning of ruling with God's revelations is repeated for us TWICE .... in verse 48 and once again in the first words of verse 49 .......

This warning, together with the confirmation that the Quran supersedes the older Scripture (5:48), confirm that we are not required to follow the previous Scripture which are the source of previous rituals, nor any accounts of what we have inherited, we are only to follow the Quran.

Not only did God inform us that each people were given a different set of ‘Shira’a wa minhaja’ (laws), but also that every people were given different RITUALS:

"For each congregation, we have decreed 'Mansakan' (set of rituals/rites) that they must uphold. Therefore, they should not dispute with you. You shall continue to invite everyone to your Lord. Most assuredly, you are on the right path." 22:67

To be Contd……

Posted - Thursday, August 23, 2007  -  12:18 PM Reply with quote
In continuation to the page one…….

Furthermore, The Quran Gives Us The Message Of Our Accountability To The Quran (and nothing else) on Judgement in very clear words in the following verse:

"This (Quran) is a message for you and your people which you shall all be accountable to" 43:44

The Quran also states a very important matter in the following verse:

"O you who believe, do not ask about matters which, if revealed to you prematurely, would hurt you. If you ask about them in light of the Quran, they will become obvious to you. God has deliberately overlooked them. God is Forgiver, Clement." 5:101

God Confirms To Us Here That There Are Some Matters That He Has Deliberately Overlooked, And Thus They Are Not Required By Us. God also tells us that if we inquire of them IN THE LIGHT OF THE QURAN, that they will be obvious to us.

This Quranic verse assures us yet again that what is NOT IN THE QURAN has been overlooked by God and thus is NOT REQUIRED OF US.

Besides all the above verses, this glorious verse also renders such phrases as 'details of rituals as given to Abraham’ as irrelevant. This as well as God's assurance that NOTHING HAS BEEN LEFT OUT OF THE BOOK (6:38), compels us to accept only the details of the rituals that are given in the Quran. If They Are Not In The Quran, It Is Either Because God Has Overlooked Them, Or Because They Are A Corruption That Was Never Authorised By God.

The words ‘fully detailed’ in 6:114, the words ‘nothing has been left out of the book’ in 6:38 and the words that describes the Quran as giving ‘explanation to everything’ in 16:89 all indicate that the QURAN CONTAINS A COMPLETE AND COMPREHENSIVE LAW.

When God says EVERYTHING, He means EVERYTHING …..

The word EVERYTHING indicates that the Quran contains all what we need for salvation.

The Quran Also Gives Us The Message That We Should Not Find/Seek Any Other Source As Source Of Law.

Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?...(6:114)

SUNNIS say that the Quran alone is not sufficient for a believer to practice his/her religion but one must also uphold the inherited rituals. But still they claim that they follow the Quran alone!!!! They justify this by saying that all the practices of Islam (Salat, Zakat …etc) were first given to Abraham …. This is quite true, no one will dispute this fact. However, There Is A Massive Difference Between God Telling Us That Islam Is As Old As Abraham, And Between God Telling Us To Accept What We Inherited Of Rituals As A Second Source Of Law Besides The Quran!

The first issue that Islam is as old as Abraham is a Quranic fact, it is not disputed. The second issue, which is the legality of us accepting our inherited rituals as a second source of laws besides the Quran is totally unsupported by any Quranic evidence.

For a start, the claim that the rituals have been preserved and passed down to us from the time of Abraham is absolutely without ANY Quranic support. Nowhere in the Quran do we read of such preservation. If anything, we are (and still are everyday) discovering how the rituals we inherited are full of corruption! The only thing guaranteed preservation is the Quran itself (15:9).

To those who say we must also uphold what was authorised by prophet or messenger (even if it is not found in the Quran) fall into the realm of 42:21. Moreover, the glaring fact is that the personal teachings of any messenger will also be corrupted and changed with the passing of time.

Should we rely on ‘Universal Acceptance’?

One further argument put forward by those who uphold rules and practices not authorised in the Quran such as the Stoning during Hajj, the 5 salat or the 2.5% for Zakat, is their reference to the fact that the greatest number of Muslims all over the world agree on these practices and figures. Consequently, they claim that this must be a sign that these practices have been preserved.

Once again, and by consulting Quranic evidence, we realize that this argument is quite contrary to the Quranic truth.

"If you obey THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON EARTH, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess." 6:116

From these Quranic words, we are ascertained that what the majority do or say is always astray from the path of God and that what they follow is no more than conjecture. This means that if we apply the concept of universal acceptance with regards to 24434 and others, that we must indeed REJECT these rules. Indeed, absolute truth is only in God’s Scripture, anything from other than the Quran is pure guesswork.

We must always remember that the Quran is all we need FOR SALVATION .....

To be continued………

Posted - Thursday, August 23, 2007  -  12:20 PM Reply with quote
In continuation to the previous page……..

The Quran, like any other Scripture is a manual of how to get to heaven and how to correct our mistake ... the Quran contains all the details we need for this specific purpose.

To understand the meaning of 6:38 (the Quran contains everything) we must read a number of other verses as well:


We are told in 2:38 that God's offer to redeem mankind involved sending us ‘Hoda’ (guidance), and that the ones who will accept this guidance, which in verse 2:39 is connected to ‘Ayat Allah’ (God’s revelations) will be redeemed while those who reject it will end up in hell ......


We are told that God sent us the ‘Hoda’ (guidance) through the Quran (27:2 , 31:3). We are also told that the guidance was given to the previous people in the previous Scripture (3:4) ......

Third :

After God has given us the exact duty of the Quran (and all the other scripture) , that being to give us the means for salvation, God tells us that the Quran contains everything ....... it is only logical to understand the completeness of the Quran in relationship to its function, which is to give us the guidance and means for salvation.

Let us compare with the following situation:

If you are studying in school for a physics exam, and your teacher gives you a book and tells you it contains everything you need to pass the exam ..... you cannot one day tell him I did not find in the book how to cook a pizza !!!

The teacher never claimed that the book contains how to cook a pizza, he only said it contains everything to pass the exam .......

Moreover, you cannot go and borrow a physics book from the class of the year before you or any other and follow it/them, since the questions you will get in your exam will be based on the book the teacher gave you and not the book given to them ........ you have your MINHAJ (rules) and they have theirs (see minhaj in 5:48) .......

Similarly, since God defined for us the function of the Quran (or any Scripture) as being the complete rules to attain salvation (2:38-39) (and to pass the test) Then We Must Understand The Completeness Of The Quran According To The Function Ascribed To It And Not In Any Other Sense.


All this confirms is the fact that to attain salvation and redeem our souls in God's heaven (In Sha Allah) we only need the (menhaj) (rules and laws) that are set for us, and NOT the menhaj that was given to those before us ........ in 5:48, we are told that our menhaj is the Quran and not the rituals or Scripture given to Abraham or the others.

Samsher Ali

Posted - Thursday, August 23, 2007  -  1:18 PM Reply with quote
So We have taught thee(Muhammad pbuh) the inspired (Message), "Follow the ways of Abraham the True in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah."16:123

Bro Shamsher If Qur'an is the complete source for muslims then why the QUr'an iteslf is asking prophet pbuh to follow the ways of Ibrahim pbuh?

I would also suggest that whilst you have a perfect right to disagree with sister Henna's views and the views of Al-Mawrid, keeping in mind that we are discussing our respected religion, we maintain respect for each other's views.sister Henna is quoting the views of scholars and not just her own opinion.In my opinion it is not a laughing matter. Ethos of Islam is humility and worship,not mocking opposing views.
Allah knows best.

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