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usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, January 20, 2006  -  4:51 AM Reply with quote
Walaykum Salam Dear Brother Samsher

At this stage of our discussion I have following observation for you. I don’t know weather you would like or not but I strongly feel that I must convey this to you.

1) How can be a person so blind like you in all replies many points present to you which are mostly crystal clear with backing of Quran, instead of realizing the truth and accepting it, you always come up with some more illogical, nonsense reply and people again answers you but you carry on doing like this. Its more than year passed but you are still the same Samsher Ali, which you were at very beginning.

This attitude of your remind me the Allah’s words that He put shield in the heart (which keep him away from the truth). You have shown the practical example of that. (Allah knows the best)

And who doth more wrong than one who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the (deeds) which his hands have sent forth? Verily We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance. (18:57)

2) The second possibility is that you are fully aware of the truth but you are on mission to mislead the Muslims like your Boss R.K did. You seem to one step ahead of your Boss by making sect within a sect which R.K tried to create, (by not following his directive completely). You are a failure brother like your boss R.K (no one knows him in this world, my self also know about him in this forum) You should abandon your mission here.

3) Another possibility is that for you to follow the ritual of Islam is very hard like praying five times a day and so on. So yours ego ask you to follow the teachings of R.K which looks very simple and attractive and remain as a Muslim,as compare to main stream Muslims who follows the Sunnah of Prophet (pbuh) which even ask you to make a dua if one enter in the toilet.

And whoever makes a breach with the Messenger after the right path has become clear to him, and follows a way other than that of the believers, We shall let him own what he chose and shall admit him in the Jahannam, and it is evil as a returning place. (4:115)

Brother what ever I had said above could be wrong to an extend may be not 100% perfect. If you are a case of No.2 or No.3, so you surely knows it that I am telling the truth. But if you are a case of No.1, so surely you will think that what ever I have said about you is all are nonsense. Only Allah can make you realize that, not me and others participants of this forum were wrong but you were wrong brother.

Being a human, all are failed to penetrate into the shield if there is one in your heart. (Allah knows the best)

Allah Hafiz
Sohail Usmani
Karachi-Pakistan

Edited by: usmani790 on Saturday, January 21, 2006 5:49 AM
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, January 27, 2006  -  11:06 AM Reply with quote
Walaykum Salam Samsher Ali

Your quote:-January 25,2006
As you generally do not find any proof from the Qur’an in support of your opinion and also against my reply, you adopt here a tricky effort to flee from me by way of leaving this forum

>>> I do not have to do any tricky effort to leave this forum, you ask twice but i did not leave.
Your quote:- December 23,2005
this is my last post to you and I am giving my reply to your queries. Please don’t disturb me any further.

Your Quote:-January 12,2006
Brother, I sincerely say you that I have failed to make you understand in this regard. Please leave me.

The basis of all yours structure( your boss R.K) you don,t even listen to him then who is I am.When he can wrongly interperate the Quran with regards to five prayers,then you should not use his translation any further.

If I am not wrong you have said about the hadith that we can take Hadith as historical contex.Please read the hadiths in this contex and find out from that weather the history support yours claims specially regarding the performing the rituals of Islam.

or otherwise history supporting our claims.

Have a good day.

Allah Hafiz
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, January 30, 2006  -  10:57 AM Reply with quote
Dear Samsher Ali

I have lot of regret that I can not convince you and made you understand my point of view. But now I feel that any further discussion on (Quran and Sunnah) with you will not be productive and will be wastage of time.

You, me and all the Human beings have all the freedom of choice in this life. We are free to choose and interpret our religion according to our wishes and desires.Up there Allah will judge all. If any one did mistake here, he gone.There is no second chance for him.Only regret and he will found himself in the Hellfire.

What could be worst than this.

Allah Hafiz
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, January 31, 2006  -  8:18 AM Reply with quote
Dear Usmani,

Quote:-I have lot of regret that I can not convince you and made you understand my point of view.

MY REPLY :- I sincerely told you brother, no one can convince me by supplying any type of gossip regarding islam. I can only understand the Qur'anic point of view. If Qur'an would say that we should follow men-made hadith, sunnah, twatur, ijmaa......, then definitely I could obey this. But The Nobel Qur'an says otherwise. IT says that we should follow only IT as our only source of law of islam. So I can't believe on your sayings that we should follow men-made hadith, sunnah, twatur.... besides Qur'an as sources of law of islam!!

2ndly, Qur'an does not say that Muhammad was the last messenger. IT says that messenger will come after him & IT also says that Every prophet was also a messenger but every messenger was/is not a prophet.

Brother,

[7:3] You shall all follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; do not follow any idols besides Him. Rarely do you take heed.


[6:70] You shall disregard those who take their religion in vain, as if it is a social function, and are totally absorbed in this worldly life. Remind with this (Quran), lest a soul may suffer the consequences of its evil earnings. It has none beside GOD as a Lord and Master, nor an intercessor. If it could offer any kind of ransom, it would not be accepted. They suffer the consequences of the evil works they earn; they have incurred hellish drinks, and a painful retribution because of their disbelief.

Definitely brother, my discussion, regarding the subject under consideration here, with you will not bring any fruitful result, because you follow another source(s) besides the Qur'an as your source(s) of islamic law.

Almighty Allah told us to follow only Qur'an and nothing else, but you have doubt about IT.

[7:2] This scripture has been revealed to you - you shall not harbor doubt about it in your heart - that you may warn WITH IT, and to provide a reminder for the believers.


It is your own choice brother either you can leave this forum or not.


[11:34] "Even if I advised you, my advice cannot benefit you if it is GOD's will to send you astray. He is your Lord, and to Him you will be returned."

Bye....
Samsher Ali, India.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, February 20, 2006  -  6:29 PM Reply with quote
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Assalamu Alaikum,

QUOTE 1: - Muhammad did not confirm the Qur’an, he only delivered the Qur’an to the people. His sole mission was to deliver the Qur’an.

QUOTE 2: - You don’t seem to realize what is the meaning of confirming the Qur’an. This phrase means providing ABSOLUTE and UNCONTESTED PROOF that the Qur’an is the word of God. Before the discovery of the awesome miracle in the Qur’an, through R.K., there was no absolute and uncontested proof that the Qur’an was from God.

REFERENCE OF THE QUOTES: -sksamsherali (INDIA) Posted - Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 11:36 AM

MY RESPONSE: - Your statements clearly denote that Muhammad (peace be upon him), while delivering the Quran, had no proof of it (Quran) being the WORDS OF GOD, ABSOLUTE and UNCONTESTED. Being the Prophet, why did Muhammad (peace be upon him) spend about 23 years for the mission of delivering the Quran which was not absolute and having the uncontested proof that it (Quran) was the words of God as you stated. It’s strange! Could you please comment on this fallacy?

Wassalaam!
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, March 07, 2006  -  11:14 AM Reply with quote
Salam brother,

Please read the verse 3:81 carefully;

‘GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. AFTERWARDS, A MESSENGER WILL COME TO CONFIRM ALL EXISTING SCRIPTURES. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."


Now think, If Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) confirmed the Qur’an and all other scriptures, then why Almighty Allah told that ‘Afterwards a messenger will come to confirm these’? So brother Muhammad (pbuh) did not confirm the Qur’an and also it was not his duty.

2ndly, what I told again & again that the genuine believers believe in the Qur’an without even having concrete evidence/proof, because the real believers recognize God’s signs when they are given to them. They believe without seeing. This is foretold in the Qur’an;

[2:2] This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;

[2:3] who believe in the unseen, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and from our provisions to them, they give to charity.

[2:4] And they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and with regard to the Hereafter, they are absolutely certain.

Let you read the above words given by God which explain how the believers believe in the Qur’an.

The words: “they believe in what was revealed to you and in what was revealed before you” and the words “who believe in the unseen”. That is how the believers believe in the Qur’an.

Now after the discovery of the Miracle we have further evidence that the Qur’an is the word of God and this is one of the functions of the Miracle to strengthen the faith of the faithful who already believed

[74:31] We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) TO STRENGTHEN THE FAITH OF THE FAITHFUL, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.

Your quote:- Your statements clearly denote that Muhammad(pbuh), while delivering the Quran, had no proof of it being the words of God, absolute and uncontested..

Reply:- Could you please tell me WHAT WAS THE SCIENTIFIC/UNCONTESTED PROOF OF THE QUR’AN during the prophet’s time from which anyone during that time could easily believe that the Qur’an is the world of God?

Also if you do not believe on Mathematical Miracle of the Qur’an, then could you please explain me what is the scientific/uncontested proof, at present, FOR THE WHOLE QUR’AN that it is the word of God?

Actually brother Qur’an is the word of God and the proof remained present within the Qur’an. Almighty Allah revealed this to the mankind through Rashad Khalifa. Prophet Muhammad did not give any SCIENTIFIC/UNCONTESTED PROOF of the Qur’an and also it was not his duty. If you don’t agree with me then please give me a single reference from the Qur’an from where it can be said that ‘prophet Muhammad(pbuh) gave scientific/uncontested proof regarding the Qur’an or confirmed that It is the word of God.


Samsher, India.
maskxone

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, March 15, 2006  -  7:02 AM Reply with quote
Assalam Alaykum,
I have gone through the posts on this forum. This discussion seems to be close but if possible I would like Brother Samsher to answer these questions for my understanding:
1) According to you three prayers are mentioned in Quran and offering five prayers a day is man-made. So the question is when and where did Muslims start praying five times a day? I mean according to your concept Prophet Muhammad should have been offering 3 prayers a day according to Quran. But then suddenly all muslims started praying 5 times a day? Why no one objected to this? And why we have come to know of this after 1400 years? Before this there was no muslim following the correct path for 1400 years until Rashad Khalifa found the code?
2) You said that every thing is mentioned in Quran itself. We do not need any other knowledge to follow religion. Why did RK use his knowledge of maths and computers to derive and change the Quran known to Muslims for 1400 years. I know the answer is that Maths is a common science. Everyone agrees to mathematical laws. But external knowledge was needed to understand Quran. But then transfer of Sunnah practices also got transferred to us from generation to generation. And every muslim (no matter what sect) agrees to them. So why can not knowledge of these known practices be used to follow religion? And after looking at submission.org it is clear that Rashad Khalifa himself believes in the Tawatur.
I personally think Quran is complete in giving us the right path. But to follow the right path we need a leader and instructor. e.g. a complete map tells you the correct way but does not tell you what speed to maintain and how to control the car etc. And to follow the map you need a guide who knows the way best. For me it is Prophet Muhammad and for you it is RK.

Edited by: maskxone on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:06 AM

Edited by: maskxone on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:15 AM

Edited by: maskxone on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:16 AM
maskxone

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, March 16, 2006  -  9:52 AM Reply with quote
Assalam Alaykum,
Thanks brother Samsher in clarifying your point of view.
I will also appreciate if you can clear the following:
You said:
"Also you don’t require to know Code-19 theory to be a believer."
And then you said:
"So Qur’an was changed by those people who copied from the original one not by R.K. Almighty Allah revealed this conspiracy through R.K. with his Code-19 theory."
So if I reject the code-19 theory I will still be believer. If I reject code-19 theory then this means to me R.K deleted the two verses wrongly. And most of the things derived from Quran by R.K also become unacceptable to me.
You said that:
"I follow the message of Muhammad, R.K. i.e. Qur’an and nothing else"
Your statement is wrong because R.K says that there are five daily prayers and all of them we get from Quran and using his code-19 theory we get the complete instructions to offer these prayers. But you say that there are only three prayers mentioned in Quran. So you think that R.K made mistakes still you follow him.
I follow Quran and Prophet Muhammad. My view is that Quran and Sunnah (through Tawatur) got transferred to us without any errors and what I follow I completely believe in it. What I follow is error free to me.

And you follow RK even when you accept his errors and at the same time you reject and label all the ahadith as wrong because you find errors in few of them. Please remember I do not take Ahadith as a primary source of religion.
Thanks for your attention brother.

Regards

Edited by: maskxone on Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:59 AM

Edited by: maskxone on Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:00 AM
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Friday, March 17, 2006  -  10:42 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

You are misunderstood again brother. I told you that “you don’t require to know Code-19 theory to be a believer”, but that does not mean that you should reject this!!! If I say that ‘I don’t know this’ does that mean that ‘ I should reject this’? Strange!!!

2ndly, I told you that as a man R.K. did some mistakes as every man do and also Prophet Muhammad done. The duty of R.K. was to confirm the scriptures not to confirm the prayer, zakat, hajj etc… He had done mistakes in this field and this is our test whether we take him as our idol or follow the Qur’an.

[3:81] GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."


You told that you don’t take hadith as primary source of religion. Then do you take them as secondary source of religion? If yes, then please tell me from where did you get this information that you should take them as secondary source of religion.

Brother, we should take only Qur’an as our only religious source. Not anything else, no primary, no secondary………

Bye…….
Peace
Samsher
maskxone

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, March 17, 2006  -  12:43 PM Reply with quote
Assalam Alaykum,
Thanks for the reply.
Brother You said:
“You are misunderstood again brother. I told you that “you don’t require to know Code-19 theory to be a believer”, but that does not mean that you should reject this!!! If I say that ‘I don’t know this’ does that mean that ‘ I should reject this’? Strange!!!"
Actually I meant that according to this statement I do not need to know code-19 theory to be believer. If its not needed then this means BELIEVING IN Code-19 theory is not required to be believer and practice the religion completely.
So if I do not believe in Code-19 theory then according to submitter's concepts i will not be able to extract the information about islamic rituals using Quran only. Like the number of rakah in prayers as RK has done. (www.submission.org) using Quran + CODE19 THEORY. So where will i get this information then? I will get it from the tawatur. RK also believes in method of Tawatur. This become another source of religon and your argument that Quran is only needed to PRACTICE religion completely becomes false.
And if you say that by rejecting Code-19 theory you can not completely follow religion then again your claim that only Quran is needed to PRACTICE religion holds false.
And the one you follow himself uses:
1) Tawatur
2) Code-19 theory
along with Quran to follow religion.
I on the other hand base my religion on the following:
1)Quran
2) Sunnah transferred through Tawatur.
For me Ahadith does not add to the religion (thanks for Studying-Islam team for making me understand this). It is not primary nor secondary SOURCE for the corpus of Islam to be complete. (May be I should not have said its not primary source in my previous post).
It just provides me with valuable information about Prophet and his best practices. AND Prophet Muhammad DID NOT make mistakes in his duty as a prophet, like RK has done in extracting practices from religion.
So the summary is :
1) If code-19 theory is irrelevant then by following Quran only you can not extract complete set of religious practices.
2) If code-19 theory is needed to extract religious practices from Quran then your claim that only Quran is needed to follow religious practices holds false. Check the pages of submission.org. And code-19 theory is used every where in this regard.
And you did not answer the following. And in this post again you have mentioned that RK made many mistakes. I asked:
“And you follow RK even when you accept his errors and at the same time you reject and label all the ahadith as wrong because you find errors in few of them”

BTW it is very easy to find faults in even the code-19 theory itself.
How will you answer the following:
Pasted from:
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=2059
During the research and study done by Dr. Rashad Khalifa of the mathematical structure of the Quran he had to change "two", 2, words in the latest edition of the Quran that broke the code of the "19 based" mathematical miracle of the Quran. Omar E. Sherif and Mohamed A. Elhennawy, Submitters Group Detroit, Michigan 5/29/2002
The clearest evidence of this manipulation is Rashad Khalifa's translation of the Qur'an published in 1981 and a revised translation published in 1989. Although he claimed that Surah Al-Tawbah 9: 128 - 129 were insertions by later scholars he kept them in his translation published in 1981. The word "Allah" is contained in verse 129 (in the 1981 translation):
If they turn away, then say: "God suffices me; there is no god except He; I trust in Him; and He is the Lord of the great dominion" (Rashad Khalifa's Translation, 1981, Al-Tawbah 9: 129)
His count of the word "Allah" (rendered "God" by him) in the entire Qur'an totaled 2698 = 19 x 142 in his 1981 published translation of the Qur'an. In his later translation published in 1989 he eliminates verses 128 - 129 of Surah Al-Tawbah yet he maintains that the total number of the word "Allah" is still 2698. Even the number of verses is affected by this inconsistency, as it is no longer divisible by 19. This is obviously a fallacy.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, March 19, 2006  -  9:05 AM Reply with quote
Assalamu alaikum,

QUOTE: - Could you please tell me WHAT WAS THE SCIENTIFIC/UNCONTESTED PROOF OF THE QUR’AN during the prophet’s time from which anyone during that time could easily believe that the Qur’an is the world of God?

If the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had been saying for the 23 years that he was delivering the Qur’an, which is the word of God then why we should not believe in the PROPHET’S words, otherwise we indirectly label the Prophet (peace be upon him) as a liar (Naooz be Allah). Isn’t it?

Now I have a Question. Did any prophet ever tell a lie even a single time or had been doing so repeatedly for several consecutive years?

QUOTE: - Also if you do not believe on Mathematical Miracle of the Qur’an, then could you please explain me what is the scientific/uncontested proof, at present, FOR THE WHOLE QUR’AN that it is the word of God?

Qura’n is a mixture of different aspects of our life. The scientific experts of every aspect can give the answer properly. Perhaps you know that the Quranic statements said 1426 years ago are being proved scientifically today even by the non muslims.

If you believe in the Mathematical Miracle of the Qur’an, do the EXPERTS of Mathematics support the miracle and if they do please show the evidence with complete bibliography?

Edited by: Loveall on Sunday, March 19, 2006 9:18 AM
maskxone

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, March 21, 2006  -  5:08 AM Reply with quote
Assalam Alaykum,
Brother Samsher in another thread (i think its you by the nick "samsher") :) you said that Prophet Muhammad Prayed only 3 times using Quran only. Correct?
So anyone following the Quran correctly in your opinion will pray 3 times a day?
I have asked this on the other forum too and I ask here again IF RK DOES NOT FOLLOW QURAN COMPLETELY himself then why you consider him to be messanger. IF he made mistake in such a obvious thing and you know this better than him then are you not a better messanger than RK?
Regards
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, March 23, 2006  -  8:41 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

QUOTE: - If the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had been saying for the 23 years that he was delivering the Qur’an, which is the word of God then why we should not believe in the PROPHET’S words, otherwise we indirectly label the Prophet (peace be upon him) as a liar (Naooz be Allah). Isn’t it?

My Response:- This is not the answer of my Question. We muslim believe that Qur’an is the word of God but we cannot say as we believe on Qur’an so it is the absolute/scientific proof that Qur’an is the word of God.

2ndly, Prophet Muhammad also says in the Qur’an the followings;

[3:81] GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. AFTERWARDS, A MESSENGER WILL COME TO CONFIRM ALL EXISTING SCRIPTURES. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."

[33:7] Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you (O Muhammad), Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.


Then brother why do you not believe on the above sayings of Prophet Muhammad???


Quote:- Now I have a Question. Did any prophet ever tell a lie even a single time or had been doing so repeatedly for several consecutive years?

My Response:- Above.


MY QUOTE: - Also if you do not believe on Mathematical Miracle of the Qur’an, then could you please explain me what is the scientific/uncontested proof, at present, FOR THE WHOLE QUR’AN that it is the word of God?


Your answer:- Qura’n is a mixture of different aspects of our life. The scientific experts of every aspect can give the answer properly. Perhaps you know that the Quranic statements said 1426 years ago are being proved scientifically today even by the non muslims.

My Response: Qur’an contains many scientific information but that does not mean that all the verses are contained with scientific information(according to modern science), for example A.L.M. [2:1]. How can it be proved by any scientist that it is a word of God. What is the meaning of this? But Code-19 of the Qur’an proved this.


Your Quote:- If you believe in the Mathematical Miracle of the Qur’an, do the EXPERTS of Mathematics support the miracle and if they do please show the evidence with complete bibliography?


My Response:- Not every believer may be as brave as the two magicians who declared their support of Moses despite Pharaoh's threat. Hiding one's belief to protect one's life is justified by God. However, Richard Voss, one of the few Western mathematicians who studied the numerical structure of the Quran, is more positive than negative... Please go to the following links and read; http://19.org/index.php?id=26,57,0,0,1,0 , http://19.org/index.php?id=26,60,0,0,1,0 ,
http://19.org/index.php?id=26,61,0,0,1,0 …………..

Peace
Samsher
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, March 23, 2006  -  8:44 AM Reply with quote
Salam,


My Response:- According to your logic above Prophet Muhammad also had not known this. I already told that R.K. prayed 5(five) times a day and according to your hadith & sunnah fabricated by Bukhari & Co. you must pray five times a day as you opined that Prophet Muhammad preached this. Then are you trying to say that Muhammad also did not know the time of prayers?


Peace
Samsher


quote:

QUOTE: - The duty of R.K. was to confirm the scriptures not to confirm the prayer, zakat, hajj etc… He had done mistakes in this field and this is our test whether we take him as our idol or follow the Qur’an

What a strange statement is!!!!
A guy not knowing a single matter (e.g. time of the prayers etc) is confirming the whole Qura’n!
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, March 23, 2006  -  10:21 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

My Response:- Brother, whether R.K. was a messenger or not is not here the subject under consideration. If you don’t believe that R.K. was a messenger, then I think you will be answerable for your belief in the day of judgement, not me. It is your choice/right whether you accept him as a messenger or reject.

2ndly, I did not join this forum to prove R.K.’s messengership. The debate between me & Mr. Hashmi first started regarding the subject “whether should we accept any other source(s) e.g. hadith & sunnah besides the only Qur’an as our religious source of Islam or not”. I never told, for example, ‘as R.K. was a messenger and as he told that we should not follow any other source besides Qur’an so we should obey his sayings….’.

If you don’t believe on R.K. then at least you should believe on Muhammad and Almighty Allah says in His Qur’an through Muhammad several times that we should follow only Qur’an and rule, judge only by the Qur’an…etc.. not by anything else. (6:114, 115. 5:44,45,48…..)


Now to know why anyone may not be a messenger, please go through the following links and try to understand the subject.

http://www.quran-islam.org/138.html

http://www.quran-islam.org/121.html

http://www.quran-islam.org/139.html

http://www.quran-islam.org/140.html

http://www.quran-islam.org/146.html

Peace
Samsher



quote:

Assalam Alaykum,
Brother Samsher in another thread (i think its you by the nick "samsher") :) you said that Prophet Muhammad Prayed only 3 times using Quran only. Correct?
So anyone following the Quran correctly in your opinion will pray 3 times a day?
I have asked this on the other forum too and I ask here again IF RK DOES NOT FOLLOW QURAN COMPLETELY himself then why you consider him to be messanger. IF he made mistake in such a obvious thing and you know this better than him then are you not a better messanger than RK?
Regards
maskxone

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, March 24, 2006  -  10:32 AM Reply with quote
Dear Brother Samsher,
Thanks for your response.
You said:
The fre-quency of the word God (Allah) is 2698 (19x142), without those two.

According to me these verses were ommitted only to prove the false claim that code 19 theory is true. According to my understanding I totally reject code 19 theory. (full stop)

I totally reject Rashad Khalifa becuase his concepts are based on fallacy.

As this is not about RK so leave this out. Now the difference between your and mine understanding has its foundations in the understanding of the term "Complete Book". For me if I follow the Quran and Sunnah both, I will not be rejecting the truth that Quran is complete book on the subject of following the correct path.
But if ignore Sunnah I will definitely be questioning the authenticity of Quran. As it tells me to follow instructions and examples of Prophet Muhammad.
You can again reply and twist my statements while leaving out things, but the fact remains that I have gone through the arguments given on this thread and they have strenghtened my understanding of Quran and Sunnah. If there were any arguments that were convincing enough for me to change my understanding then I would have done so willingly.
Even still if I am wrong then may Allah guide me on the right path.
Thanks for your attention.
Best Regards Brother.

Edited by: maskxone on Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:27 AM

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