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saba2
Moderator

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, December 31, 2011  -  4:23 AM Reply with quote
Happy New Year and may this new year bring peace harmony and happiness to all.
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Monday, January 02, 2012  -  7:43 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

.....OBEYING, BELIEVING & RESPECTING the prophet Muhammed simply means to FOLLOW THE QUR’AN AS HE FOLLOWED and nothing else..... Samsher.

"....AS HE FOLLOWED ..."? How does one come to know that ? What do you call the compilation where that is recorded?


Edited by: aboosait on Friday, December 30, 2011 12:18 PM


Salam,

please read the followings;-

[5:48] [b]Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

[6:50] Say, "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of GOD. Nor do I know the future. Nor do I say to you that I am an angel. I simply follow what is revealed to me." Say, "Is the blind the same as the seer? Do you not reflect?"

[7:203] If you do not produce a miracle that they demand, they say, "Why not ask for it?" Say, "I simply follow what is revealed to me from my Lord." These are enlightenments from your Lord, and guidance, and mercy for people who believe.

[10:15] When our revelations are recited to them, those who do not expect to meet us say, "Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!" Say, "I cannot possibly change it on my own. I simply follow what is revealed to me. I fear, if I disobey my Lord, the retribution of an awesome day."

Samsher
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, January 03, 2012  -  2:25 PM Reply with quote
Happy New Year and may this new year bring peace harmony and happiness to all


Thanks A lot.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, August 07, 2012  -  9:49 AM Reply with quote
quote:

OBEYING, BELIEVING & RESPECTING the prophet Muhammed simply means to FOLLOW THE QUR’AN AS HE FOLLOWED and nothing else.

Samsher
4:59 (Y. Ali) O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger,.........

This clearly shows that according to Qur'an Allah and Muhammad are separate to obey.

In Surah 66:3, the Prophet told his wives that he knew because Allah had informed him about it. Show me a Quranic verse where Allah had informed the Prophet about it. You cannot. This proves that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran.

Surah 2:143 shows that Allah (swt) gave an order for the Muslims to change their Qibla from (Bayt Al Maqdis in Jerusalem) to the Kabah in Mecca. However, there is no Quranic verse that shows the first order that Allah gave to make the Qibla towards Jerusalem. This is another proof that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran.


Edited by: aboosait on Monday, August 13, 2012 9:20 AM
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, August 07, 2012  -  4:48 PM Reply with quote
Assalam Alikum abusaid,

And there are those of them who hear you, but can you make the deaf to hear though they will not understand?
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #42)

Brother Don't waste your time on him.

Usmani
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, August 08, 2012  -  5:27 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Assalam Alikum abusaid,

And there are those of them who hear you, but can you make the deaf to hear though they will not understand?
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #42)

Brother Don't waste your time on him.Usmani


Brother usmani,

Wa 'alaykum assalam wa Rahmathullah.

Thanks for your concern.

Jazakallahu khair..

My reply to the Hadith rejectors is not only aimed at them but also at the hundreds of passive members of this forum, some of whom are put into confusion reading all the misguiding stuff.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Monday, August 13, 2012  -  9:29 AM Reply with quote
﴿سَيَقُولُ السُّفَهَآءُ مِنَ النَّاسِ مَا وَلَّـهُمْ عَن قِبْلَتِهِمُ الَّتِى كَانُواْ عَلَيْهَا قُل لّلَّهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ يَهْدِى مَن يَشَآءُ إِلَى صِرَطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ - وَكَذَلِكَ جَعَلْنَـكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِّتَكُونُواْ شُهَدَآءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِى كُنتَ عَلَيْهَآ إِلاَّ لِنَعْلَمَ مَن يَتَّبِعُ الرَّسُولَ مِمَّن يَنقَلِبُ عَلَى عَقِبَيْهِ وَإِن كَانَتْ لَكَبِيرَةً إِلاَّ عَلَى الَّذِينَ هَدَى اللَّهُ وَمَا كَانَ اللَّهُ لِيُضِيعَ إِيمَـنَكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِالنَّاسِ لَرَءُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ ﴾
(142. The fools (idolators, hypocrites, and Jews) among the people will say: "What has turned them (Muslims) from their Qiblah ﴿prayer direction (towards Jerusalem)﴾ to which they used to face in prayer.'' Say (O Muhammad ): "To Allah belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to the straight way.'') (143. Thus We have made you ﴿true Muslims ـ real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah (legal ways)﴾, a Wasat (just and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad ) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad ) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e., disobey the Messenger). Indeed it was great (heavy, difficult) except for those whom Allah guided. And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e., your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allah is full of kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.)

The highlighted portion clearly shows that the previous qibla was also from Allah.

Where is the order in the Qur'an asking the Prophet to face the previous qibla? It was outside of the Qur'an!

He did not face a particular direction without wahy from above as is clear from the Verse I quoted.

So agree with the Muslims' belief that not all wahy is in Qur'an. There is another set of wahy which the prophet received in the form of 'Hikmah' which is also known as Sunnah and which has been passed on to us by the noble pedicessors duly recorded later in the books of hadith.The above is only an example.


Edited by: aboosait on Monday, August 13, 2012 9:31 AM
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, August 13, 2012  -  4:56 PM Reply with quote
Dear rother Abusaid,

I am agree with on that.This time is the only wealth we have here in this world.We should be very careful while we are doing some thing.

best regards
Usmani
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, August 13, 2012  -  5:03 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Dear rother Abusaid,

I am agree with on that.This time is the only wealth we have here in this world.We should be very careful while we are doing some thing.

best regards
Usmani
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, August 14, 2012  -  3:37 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Dear rother Abusaid,

I am agree with on that.This time is the only wealth we have here in this world.We should be very careful while we are doing some thing.

best regards
Usmani
Jazakallahu khair.
imran2015

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, March 19, 2015  -  8:10 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Assalam Alikum abusaid,

And there are those of them who hear you, but can you make the deaf to hear though they will not understand?
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #42)

Brother Don't waste your time on him.

Usmani


If you have any true logic, then please provide here to refute his views. Rather u used objectionable language.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, March 29, 2016  -  3:26 PM Reply with quote
quote:


If you have any true logic, then please provide here to refute his views. Rather u used objectionable language.
@ imran2015 -
To whom is that addressed? Who has used objectionable language? On whom? Refute whose views? Which views?


Edited by: aboosait on Tuesday, March 29, 2016 3:29 PM

Edited by: aboosait on Wednesday, March 30, 2016 4:10 AM
rayhan

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, November 17, 2016  -  8:29 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

OBEYING, BELIEVING & RESPECTING the prophet Muhammed simply means to FOLLOW THE QUR’AN AS HE FOLLOWED and nothing else.

Samsher
4:59 (Y. Ali) O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger,.........

This clearly shows that according to Qur'an Allah and Muhammad are separate to obey.

In Surah 66:3, the Prophet told his wives that he knew because Allah had informed him about it. Show me a Quranic verse where Allah had informed the Prophet about it. You cannot. This proves that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran.

Surah 2:143 shows that Allah (swt) gave an order for the Muslims to change their Qibla from (Bayt Al Maqdis in Jerusalem) to the Kabah in Mecca. However, there is no Quranic verse that shows the first order that Allah gave to make the Qibla towards Jerusalem. This is another proof that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran.


Edited by: aboosait on Monday, August 13, 2012 9:20 AM


Peace

 The following Ayah establishes that Obedience to Allah and His Messenger is ONE and the SAME thing:
O you who believe! Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger and do not turn back from HIM <anhu while you hear (8:20)
Here the believers are identified to be those who were listening to the Messenger who delivers the Quraanic laws to them, as the singular pronoun anhu (from him) indicates. This confirms that Allah and His Messenger are not two separate sources of law to be obeyed, but that the source of Divine law to be obeyed is ONLY Allah and ONLY the people are able to hear these divine laws through the LIPS of His Messenger.
 There is big difference between Revelation and Inspiration. A revelation is a scripture which God gives a prophet to deliver to the people. Moses received a revelation from God (Torah), Jesus received a revelation from God (Injeel) and Muhammad received a revelation from God (Quran).
However, an inspiration is not a scripture, it is simply a personal piece of information which God inspires to a single person, and for the benefit of that person alone.
In addition, God inspires all people and not only the messengers. For example, we read in the Quran how God inspired the mother of Moses (who was not a messenger) to throw her baby in the river (28:7).
God in fact inspires all creatures and not just humans. In 16:68 we read how God inspired the bee.

 When we read 2:143-144 we indeed learn of a change of Qibla by God. However, the exact details of this change and the exact location of the previous Qibla does not affect us in any way when we come to observe the Salat. To observe the Salat, we need to know the Qibla which God assigned to us and not to previous people. The Qibla which applies to us is given in 2:144, it is the Masjid Al-Haram. It is important here to remind ourselves of the correct meaning of the Quran being “fully detailed”.
Fully details does not mean all historic events are fully detailed, but only what related to the message of the Quran and the law of God.

With the words: “We did not appoint the Qiblah which you were on except to …..” we are told of a previous Qibla which God appointed, however we are not told if this Qibla was appointed specifically to Muhammad, or if it was appointed before the time of Muhammad and when Muhammad came it was the Qibla being followed. The words in 2:143 do not say “We did not appoint FOR YOU the Qiblah which you were on except to …..” As a result, the test of who follows the messenger, could be speaking about a previous people and their messenger.
When we read the words of the following verse the matter becomes clearer:

[2:144] We have seen you turning your face about the sky, thus, We now assign you to a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Masjid Al-Haram.

Rayhan

Edited by: rayhan on Thursday, November 17, 2016 8:33 AM
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Sunday, February 05, 2017  -  4:13 PM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

quote:

OBEYING, BELIEVING & RESPECTING the prophet Muhammed simply means to FOLLOW THE QUR’AN AS HE FOLLOWED and nothing else.

Samsher
4:59 (Y. Ali) O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger,.........

This clearly shows that according to Qur'an Allah and Muhammad are separate to obey.

In Surah 66:3, the Prophet told his wives that he knew because Allah had informed him about it. Show me a Quranic verse where Allah had informed the Prophet about it. You cannot. This proves that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran.

Surah 2:143 shows that Allah (swt) gave an order for the Muslims to change their Qibla from (Bayt Al Maqdis in Jerusalem) to the Kabah in Mecca. However, there is no Quranic verse that shows the first order that Allah gave to make the Qibla towards Jerusalem. This is another proof that there are revelations to Prophet Muhammad besides the Quran.


Edited by: aboosait on Monday, August 13, 2012 9:20 AM


Peace

 The following Ayah establishes that Obedience to Allah and His Messenger is ONE and the SAME thing:
O you who believe! Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger and do not turn back from HIM <anhu while you hear (8:20)
Here the believers are identified to be those who were listening to the Messenger who delivers the Quraanic laws to them, as the singular pronoun anhu (from him) indicates. This confirms that Allah and His Messenger are not two separate sources of law to be obeyed, but that the source of Divine law to be obeyed is ONLY Allah and ONLY the people are able to hear these divine laws through the LIPS of His Messenger.
 There is big difference between Revelation and Inspiration. A revelation is a scripture which God gives a prophet to deliver to the people. Moses received a revelation from God (Torah), Jesus received a revelation from God (Injeel) and Muhammad received a revelation from God (Quran).
However, an inspiration is not a scripture, it is simply a personal piece of information which God inspires to a single person, and for the benefit of that person alone.
In addition, God inspires all people and not only the messengers. For example, we read in the Quran how God inspired the mother of Moses (who was not a messenger) to throw her baby in the river (28:7).
God in fact inspires all creatures and not just humans. In 16:68 we read how God inspired the bee.

 When we read 2:143-144 we indeed learn of a change of Qibla by God. However, the exact details of this change and the exact location of the previous Qibla does not affect us in any way when we come to observe the Salat. To observe the Salat, we need to know the Qibla which God assigned to us and not to previous people. The Qibla which applies to us is given in 2:144, it is the Masjid Al-Haram. It is important here to remind ourselves of the correct meaning of the Quran being “fully detailed”.
Fully details does not mean all historic events are fully detailed, but only what related to the message of the Quran and the law of God.

With the words: “We did not appoint the Qiblah which you were on except to …..” we are told of a previous Qibla which God appointed, however we are not told if this Qibla was appointed specifically to Muhammad, or if it was appointed before the time of Muhammad and when Muhammad came it was the Qibla being followed. The words in 2:143 do not say “We did not appoint FOR YOU the Qiblah which you were on except to …..” As a result, the test of who follows the messenger, could be speaking about a previous people and their messenger.
When we read the words of the following verse the matter becomes clearer:

[2:144] We have seen you turning your face about the sky, thus, We now assign you to a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Masjid Al-Haram.

Rayhan

Edited by: rayhan on Thursday, November 17, 2016 8:33 AM


Where is the order in the Qur'an asking the Prophet to face the previous qibla? It was outside of the Qur'an! He did not face a particular direction without wahy from above as is clear from the Verse I quoted. So agree with the Muslims' belief that not all wahy is in Qur'an. There is another set of wahy which the prophet received in the form of 'Hikmah' which is also known as Sunnah and which has been passed on to us by the noble pedicessors duly recorded later in the books of hadith.The above is only an example.
rayhan

INDIA
Posted - Monday, February 06, 2017  -  5:44 AM Reply with quote
Salam, friend

Please read with patience;-

Some people, who insist that the Quran alone is not sufficient to practice Islam, manipulate a number of Quranic verses to justify their claim. One such verse is 2:143. They state that the previous Qibla, which is spoken of in 2:143 and which was intended as a temporary test, is not given full details in the Quran, but it was inspired to the prophet. They add that since this was a command from God which the people had to follow, they had to follow words from the prophet outside the Quran. From that they justify the need for hadith and that the Quran alone is not sufficient.

They make similar claims regarding 2:187 where we read that the rules for fasting have been relaxed for the receivers of the Quran, but the previous rules are not given in the Quran. It can be said that the argument they pose for 2:143 is the same as that for 2:187, thus the reply to 2:143 should serve as a reply to 2:187 as well.
One of the interpretations of 2:143 has it that God has set a temporary Qibla as a test for the people of that time, the details of which are not given in the Quran. There are other interpretations for 2:143, but for arguments sake we will assume that this is the correct interpretation. If this is what happened, then this would have been before it was changed to the masjid al-haram in 2:144. It would also mean that this Qibla was set before the whole Quran was revealed to Muhammad, and certainly before 2:144 was revealed.
This would mean that the prophet would have received an inspiration about a previous Qibla before the Masjid Al-Haram was set in 2:144 to be the final Qibla.
It would also mean that the temporary Qibla would have been applicable only until 2:144 was revealed and not one day after.

It would also be correct to say that the believers at that time only had to follow inspiration given to the prophet about a different Qibla, only up to when 2:144 was revealed. It is very important here to note that this would have taken place before the complete Quran was revealed. What this also means is that after the change of Qibla in 2:144, the details of the previous Qibla do not apply to us today. This is the heart of this matter, and it is the factor which totally invalidates the claims of those who reject the ‘Quran alone’.
As a result, we are able to practice perfect Islam today by using the Quran alone. All we are required to do is follow the Qibla in 2:144. The details of the previous Qibla, and in whatever way it was inspired to the prophet, do not apply to us today.

Therefore, the attempt of the hadith followers to use 2:143 to imply that the Quran is not sufficient for us is another big lie which is easily exposed. God indeed inspires to His messengers information that is outside the scripture. One example we have is when God inspired some information to Muhammad about some of his wives (66:3). The details of this information are not given in the Quran.
God inspires His messengers all the time, but that is not all, God inspires ordinary people and not just messengers.
We have the example in 28:7 of how God inspired the mother of Moses to throw her baby son in the river and not worry.
So there is no problem whatsoever in accepting inspiration given to Muhammad which is not in the Quran. But we must be focused on the fact that none of this information relates to our practice of Islam today nor is required by us. The hadith advocates then ask: If you accept that Muhammad received inspiration from God outside the Quran then why do you not follow his hadith?
The answer is simple, the personal hadith of Muhammad was not inspired by God.
In reply, they claim that every word uttered by Muhammad was inspired by God. Now here the question is, if every word uttered by Muhammad was inspired by God, then how come we read in the Quran about SIX OCCASIONS where God reprimanded Muhammad for mistakes he made?
Is God inspiring mistakes to His messenger? When we have the clarity to distinguish between inspiration given to Muhammad outside the Quran (as in 66:3), and between his personal hadith, we realise that neither of these are applicable to us today nor do they form any part of our religion.

On the one hand, and as shown above, the various pieces of inspiration given to Muhammad outside the Quran related to that time only and not to us today.

As for the personal hadith of Muhammad, once again we are commanded very clearly not to follow it for the following reasons:

1- God commands us not to believe/follow any hadith other than the Quran (45:6)
2- God tells us that the Quran has all the details we need (6:114) and that nothing has been left out of the book (6:38). As a result, all what may have been inspired to Muhammad and which is not in the Quran is not part of our Islam today nor is required of us.
3- God commands us to use the Quran as the only source of law (6:114)
3- God tells us that the hadith is the fabrication of the devil (6:112)
4- God tells us that we are not accountable to what was given to those before us, which refutes the claim associated with the previous Qibla. The Quranic evidence is clear:

“Such is a community from the past. They are responsible for what they earned, and you are responsible for what you earned. You are not answerable for anything they have done"2:134

"For each congregation, we have decreed 'Mansakan' (set of rituals/rites) that they must uphold.” 22:67

“For each of you, we have decreed different ‘Shira’a wa minhaja’ (laws and rites). Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you.” 5:48.
Summary:

1- Was Muhammad given inspiration regarding a previous Qibla? Very possible
2- Is this Qibla applicable to us today? No, our Qibla is given in 2:144
3- Do we need information about this previous Qibla in order to practice our religion? No
4- Does 2:143 justify the call to follow hadith? Never! Not in a million years!
The same reply applies to 2:187, whatever rules were connected to fasting in the past do not apply to us today, their details do not need to be in the Quran. We do not need these details to practice Islam. The fact still remains; the Quran is all we need for salvation.

Taken from www.quran-islam.org
Sanwal

INDIA
Posted - Sunday, December 31, 2017  -  2:49 PM Reply with quote
Agree!

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