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raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Monday, September 25, 2006  -  11:32 AM Reply with quote
dear shamsher,
salam,

Better we should invest our energies to answer these ATTACKS on Quran
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, September 27, 2006  -  8:35 AM Reply with quote
Salaam

Quote:

· You who believe! When the call is made for prayer on FRIDAY, then hasten to the remembrance of Allah and leave off trading; that is better for you, if you know (62: 9).

· The month of RAMAZAN is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction; therefore whoever of you is present in the month, he shall fast therein, and whoever is sick or upon a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire for you difficulty, and (He desires) that you should complete the number and that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks (2: 185).

MY QUESTION IS,

“According to Holy Quran, which day is the Friday and which month is the Ramazan?”

OR

“How does Holy Quran CONFIRM the day as Friday, which we consider it in our daily life i.e. the day between Thursday and Saturday and the month as Ramazan which we consider it in our daily life i.e. the month between Shaaban and Shawal?”


REPLY: That means you brother do not believe that ‘Qur’an is the ONLY religious source of Islam’!!! Also you do not believe that QUR’AN IS FULLY DETAILED, COMPLETE & PERFECT!! Also you do not believe that Almighty Allah ordered Prophet Muhammad to say in the Qur’an ‘Not To Accept Any Other Source As Source Of Law(Religious) Besides Qur’an’!!![6:114]

Quote:- If Holy Quran confirms it is then Ok otherwise WHAT IS THE SOURCE, which we (almost every Muslim) FOLLOW to act upon the sayings of God (62: 9 and 2: 185)?

REPLY:- This is a stupid arguments by the worshippers of hadith, they will invent any stupid argument to justify why they are not happy with the Quran on its own and why they follow the medieval hadith,

If you would believe that Qur’an is FULLY DETAILED, COMPLETE & PERFECT AND IS THE ONLY RELIGIOUS SOURCE OF ISLAM, then you could not have raised this type question.

Now come to the point;

With regards to the month of Ramadan, I have already answered this question in this forum before , I am not sure why you keep asking the same question. I have explained that it is God who devised the CALANDER for us and more important it is God who NAMED EVERYTHING WE KNOW.
It is God who named the tree a tree and the boat a boat, and also it is God who named the months of the calander, including Ramadan .....

To demonstrate this, I am giving here an example of ablution in 5:6 where God commands us to wash our hands, face ... etc, before salat.
Can you ask God where in your body is your hand????
Or do you know that God gave you the knowledge that your hand is the organ sticking out of your shoulder?
Similarly, can you ask God where in your body is your face…….????

2ndly, God commanded us to do the collective salat on Friday.
Now according to our counting Friday is the 5th day of the week ....
God did not command us to do the collective salat on the 5th day, did He?
Do you have a problem finding out when does Friday come?
Do you say it is not mentioned in the Quran that Friday is the 5th day???
Do you say it is not written in the Quran that Friday is the 5th day, so how do I know when to do the collective prayer?
Do you have to depend on other sources to know when to do the collective prayer on Friday?????
Or do you do the collective salat when Friday comes? regardless of it being the 5th day or any other number?

Similarly, God did not command us to fast during the 9th month or in your own words ‘the month between Shaaban and Shawal’ , did He?

Why is the number 9 or ‘the month between Shaaban and Shawal’ so important?

The number 9 is of no importance, just like the number 5 is of no importance to Friday, and the Friday prayer.

God named all the months and Ramadan is one of the months in the CALANDER, when Ramadan comes you should fast it .....

So brother please leave your stupid argument and try to follow Only Qur’an as your only religious source of law. Now the ball is in your court.

salaam,
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Wednesday, September 27, 2006  -  9:32 AM Reply with quote
<<Can you ask God where in your body is your hand????
Or do you know that God gave you the knowledge that your hand is the organ sticking out of your shoulder?
Similarly, can you ask God where in your body is your face…….????>>>>

Excellent!!!!!!!!!
certainly we ll not ask God where in our body is our hand.

but how we come to know why an organ sticking out of our shoulder is called hand and why not leg?

this is becoz our parents,teachers and scholars of the body science said so.Isnt it?

In the same way Almighty has commanded us about Ramzan,we have to follow those commands.
But for relevant details same as" what a hand is" we should rely on the concerned experts.

wassalam
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, September 27, 2006  -  9:49 AM Reply with quote
Salam,


Quote:- Better we should invest our energies to answer these ATTACKS on Quran


REPLY :- It will be of no use to argue with disbelievers.


[2:1 - 7] “A.L.M. This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous; who believe in the unseen, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and from our provisions to them, they give to charity. And they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and with regard to the Hereafter, they are absolutely certain. These are guided by their Lord; these are the winners. AS FOR THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE, IT IS THE SAME FOR THEM; WHETHER YOU WARN THEM, OR NOT WARN THEM, THEY CANNOT BELIEVE. GOD SEALS THEIR MINDS AND THEIR HEARING, AND THEIR EYES ARE VEILED. They have incurred severe retribution”.


You can argue with them in the nicest possible manner – unless they transgress.


[29:46] Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters."


But the question is, when the sects of muslim( Shiha, Sunni…..) cannot satisfy with the Qur’an only and they even can’t believe ONLY on Qur’an in totality, then how the disbelievers can satisfy with the Qur’an???? Very surprising matter!!! So brother it is our duty that at first we should be united – we should follow ONLY QURAN as our religious source and nothing else.


We the muslim believe that Qur’an is written by Almighty God. But how can you prove it to the disbelievers?? WHAT IS YOUR ABSOLUTE PROOF TO THE DISBELIEVERS THAT THE WHOLE QUR’AN WAS WRITTEN BY ALMIGHTY GOD??


My proof, as an example, is below;

Please read the links carefully; http://www.quran-islam.org/92.html


Peace
Samsher.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, September 27, 2006  -  11:38 PM Reply with quote
Salam sksamsherali and thanks for your reply having NOTHING but to prove the FOLLOWING QUOTE of nonstoptaxi, dated Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 11:35 AM.

QUOTE: - the answer will :-
1.definitely be a vague one
2.be very long so that you can forget what you were asking
3.one half of the answer will be dedicated to abuses for CORRUPT FORM OF AHL HADITH GROUPS
4.It must be covering 6 sheets of A4 size paper
5.The answer must not contain anything new but a copy paste from regular posts as usual.
6.the looooooooong and dettttttttttailed answer will be posted 4-5 times so that an average participant will not be able to see your question.

the only trick these people playing since beginning is to mould the question as per their (read submitters)convenience first.

Khuda Hafiz
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, September 28, 2006  -  8:25 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

Quote:- but how we come to know why an organ sticking out of our shoulder is called hand and why not leg? this is becoz our parents, teachers and scholars of the body science said so. Isn’t it?


REPLY :- So you think as your parents, teachers and scholars of the body science said so i.e. sticking out of our shoulder is called hand… therefore it(the opinion of your parents, teachers…..in this regard) should also be regarded as your RELIGIOUS SOURCE!!! What a stupid argument!!!


Qur’an is neither science book nor astronomical book. Also Qur’an does not say how to cook Pizza……….. Qur’an is the Guide book of mankind(religious guidance) Almighty Allah says that Qur’an is fully detailed, complete….. that can only mean all the religious information/laws that are required for our salvation/guidance, are completely given in the Qur’an.


So we do not require to search the Qur’an to know which parts of our body are called hand…………


Quote: In the same way Almighty has commanded us about Ramzan, we have to follow those commands.


REPLY: Had I told anywhere that we should not obey almighty Allah’s command? Definitely, we have to follow HIS commands, but at first you should know where did HE give His commandments. He gave His commandment through His Book i.e. Qur’an and we should follow ONLY IT as our RELIGIOUS SOURCE.


Do you think that Prophet Muhammad was the first man who gave the names of twelve months of Arabic Calendar or do you think that before Muhammad no one knew the names of twelve months of Arabic Calendar??? Do you think that which day is Friday was first known through the prophetic hadith(fabricated)????


[9:36] “The count of months, as far as GOD is concerned, is twelve. This has been GOD's law, since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred. This is the perfect religion….”


Fasting was not a new thing at that time and also Muhammad did not bring this.


Samsher.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, September 28, 2006  -  8:52 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

Quote:- Salam sksamsherali and thanks for your reply having NOTHING but to prove the FOLLOWING QUOTE of nonstoptaxi, dated Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 11:35 AM.

REPLY:- My reply in this regard is brother Zulfee’s reply, dated Wednesday, September 27, 2006 as follows;

It is useless to ask them because they have seal on their hearts, minds, eyes and ears (said by Almighty). If Allah has put wrath on them, we can do nothing.

[pre][2:170] When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided? [/pre]

[pre][2:171] The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand[/pre].

[pre][6:21] Who is more evil than one who lies about GOD, or rejects His revelations? The transgressors never succeed.

[6:22] On the day when we summon them all, we will ask the idol worshipers, "Where are the idols you set up?"

[6:23] Their disastrous response will be, "By GOD our Lord, we never were idol worshipers."

[6:24] Note how they lied to themselves, and how the idols they had invented have abandoned them.

[6:25] Some of them listen to you, but we place veils on their hearts to prevent them from understanding, and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what kind of proof they see, they cannot believe. Thus, when they come to argue with you, the disbelievers say, "These are tales from the past."

[6:26] They repel others from this (Quran), as they themselves stay away from it, and thus, they only destroy themselves without perceiving.
[/pre]


Peace
Samsher.
nonstoptaxi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, September 30, 2006  -  5:22 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Salam sksamsherali and thanks for your reply having NOTHING but to prove the FOLLOWING QUOTE of nonstoptaxi, dated Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 11:35 AM.

QUOTE: - the answer will :-
1.definitely be a vague one
2.be very long so that you can forget what you were asking
3.one half of the answer will be dedicated to abuses for CORRUPT FORM OF AHL HADITH GROUPS
4.It must be covering 6 sheets of A4 size paper
5.The answer must not contain anything new but a copy paste from regular posts as usual.
6.the looooooooong and dettttttttttailed answer will be posted 4-5 times so that an average participant will not be able to see your question.

the only trick these people playing since beginning is to mould the question as per their (read submitters)convenience first.

Khuda Hafiz


6.the looooooooong and dettttttttttailed answer will be posted 4-5 times so that an average participant will not be able to see your question.

wassalam
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, October 04, 2006  -  10:32 AM Reply with quote
Salam,


I placed the following question before the worshippers of Muhammad on 28th September, 2006, but till date no one amongst them could reply to the same;


Do you think that Prophet Muhammad was the first man who gave the names of twelve months of Arabic Calendar or do you think that before Muhammad no one knew the names of twelve months of Arabic Calendar??? Do you think that which day is Friday was first known through the prophetic hadith(fabricated)????

Samsher.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, October 08, 2006  -  6:09 AM Reply with quote
QUOTE: - I placed the following question before the worshippers of Muhammad on 28th September, 2006, but till date no one amongst them could reply to the same;
Do you think that Prophet Muhammad was the first man who gave the names of twelve months of Arabic Calendar or do you think that before Muhammad no one knew the names of twelve months of Arabic Calendar??? Do you think that which day is Friday was first known through the prophetic hadith(fabricated)????

My Reply: I have NEVER told that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the first who told us about seven days of a week and the twelve months of a year. I think, the definition of “Friday” and “Ramzan” is extra Quranic. My question was, in other words, “Why are we adapting the EXTRA QURANIC knowledge (whatever its source is) to act upon the Quranic verses regarding the Friday prayer and the fasting in the month of Ramzan?”
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, October 09, 2006  -  8:47 AM Reply with quote
MY QUOTE:

”Do you think that Prophet Muhammad was the first man who gave the names of twelve months of Arabic Calendar or do you think that before Muhammad no one knew the names of twelve months of Arabic Calendar??? Do you think that which day is Friday was first known through the prophetic hadith(fabricated)????


Your Reply: I have NEVER told that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the first who told us about seven days of a week and the twelve months of a year. I think, the definition of “Friday” and “Ramzan” is extra Quranic. My question was, in other words, “Why are we adapting the EXTRA QURANIC knowledge (whatever its source is) to act upon the Quranic verses regarding the Friday prayer and the fasting in the month of Ramzan?”


MY REPLY:- Several times I told you that the Nobel Qur’an Itself says that IT is the ONLY RELIGIOUS SOURCE/ONLY GUIDANCE FOR US. I also told you that Qur’an is neither Science book nor Astronomical book, Recipe book….etc.etc. IT is the Book/Source of Guidance(religious) for mankind.



[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as A SOURCE OF LAW, WHEN HE HAS REVEALED TO YOU THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.


[6:115] THE WORD OF YOUR LORD IS COMPLETE, IN TRUTH AND JUSTICE. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.


The verse 6:114 mentioned above clearly says us that we should not accept/find/seek any other SOURCE OF LAW BESIDES GOD BECAUSE HE HAS REVEALED THE QUR’AN FULLY DETAILED.


The verse 6;115 says us also that the WORD OF ALMIGHTY ALLAH IS COMPLETE IN TRUTH AND JUSTICE.


So now no one can come and say this that ‘as Qur’an does not say us which day is Friday( it is forth day or fifth day of week) or which month is Ramadan(it is 9th or 10th or 11th ), so IT is not fully detailed and IT is not the only source of law(religious)!!!

Please another example;

[5:6] O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had (sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water, you shall observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) BY TOUCHING CLEAN DRY SOIL, then rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the religion difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.


Now can any one came and ask a question by saying that ‘What does mean SOIL mentioned in the above verse’??? And as this verse does not say us what is SOIL, so we can’t observe the dry ablution unless we accept outside source about SOIL besides Qur’an as our religious source!!!


I several times that it is Almighty Allah Who gave the name of all things i.e. tree as tree, month as month, day as day…etc…. It is Almighty Allah Who told us that the number of months are 12.


[9:36] “The count of months, as far as GOD is concerned, is twelve. This has been GOD's law, since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred. This is the perfect religion….”


Prophet Muhammad knew the names of 12 months and he also knew which day is called Friday. I earlier told you that Fasting was not a new thing at that time and also Muhammad did not bring this and also the Salat.


[2:1 - 7] “A.L.M. This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous; who believe in the unseen, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and from our provisions to them, they give to charity. AND THEY BELIEVE IN WHAT WAS REVEALED TO YOU, AND IN WHAT WAS REVEALED BEFORE YOU, and with regard to the Hereafter, they are absolutely certain. These are guided by their Lord; these are the winners. AS FOR THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE, IT IS THE SAME FOR THEM; WHETHER YOU WARN THEM, OR NOT WARN THEM, THEY CANNOT BELIEVE. GOD SEALS THEIR MINDS AND THEIR HEARING, AND THEIR EYES ARE VEILED. They have incurred severe retribution”.


Samsher.
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, October 09, 2006  -  11:33 AM Reply with quote
Salaam raushan

Since the topic we are discussing is hadith and sunnah. What are you views regarding this article and your conclusion regarding the hadith and its effect on the muslim faith-since hadith were first introduced.
regards
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Monday, October 09, 2006  -  1:05 PM Reply with quote
salam perv,

the article explains in detail about how these objections against hadith started , what leads some people to this opposition and what was the response given to them.

I thought , this article may be useful to understand the complete story to our forum members and this was my only motive behind posting the same.
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, October 09, 2006  -  1:18 PM Reply with quote
salaam raushan

You neatly side stepped my question.
reagards
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, October 10, 2006  -  9:33 AM Reply with quote
Salam,


Quote:- He then built on his asserted discovery of what Kassim Ahmad on page 68 refers to as “THE MIRACLE OF CODE 19” TO ASSERT FURTHER THAT THIS REVELATION TO HIM FROM ALLAH PROVED THAT HE WAS A PROPHET. HE DEVELOPED THIS TO ASSERT THAT HE WAS THE FIFTH MOST IMPORTANT PROPHET, RIGHT AFTER ABRAHAM, MOSES, JESUS, AND MUHAMMAD. He then proceeded to introduce new customs, like encouraging women to lead the prayers of both men and women together. As a result he was assassinated.


REPLY:- Nowhere Rashad Khalifa claimed that he is a PROPHET.


Quote :- He cautions that, “A return to the Qur’an does not mean that we destroy all the books of hadith and all the books of the religious scholars, nor do we mean that we no longer need the religious scholars. It only means that we must refer to the Qur’an alone as infallible guidance.”


REPLY : - Dr. Robert D. Crane did not say any new thing. Also Rashad Khalifa told that “WE SHOULD NOT ACCEPT ANY OTHER SOURCE AS SOURCE OF LAW(RELIGIOUS) OF ISLAM BESIDES QUR’AN. It is true that we can’t take hadith, mishna, zemarrah…etc..etc. as our RELIGIOUS SOURCE OF ISLAM. Our only religious source is Only the Qur’an and nothing else.


2ndly, we should not follow the opinion of any scholars regarding our religion BLINDLY. We have to use our sense, we have to judge the opinion of religious scholars with the Nobel Qur’an to know whether it is right or wrong.


Peace
Samsher.
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Wednesday, October 11, 2006  -  6:12 AM Reply with quote
“A return to the Qur’an does not mean that we destroy all the books of hadith and all the books of the religious scholars, nor do we mean that we no longer need the religious scholars. It only means that we must refer to the Qur’an alone as infallible guidance.”

---its not said by Dr. Robert D. Crane i suppose rather he quoted it from a submitter.

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