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ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, May 04, 2007  -  7:24 AM Reply with quote
w salam & Thanks Br. SKSamsherAli for Posting ur Opinion Against ME. I personaly think that HERE should END this Dialog between YOU & US & let the Readers to Decide of their OWN.
But at the Same Time I Just want to Repeat it again that
"My pt. has NOT been Understood Properly by Bro Samsher"
All the time while Replying to ME, he has NOT come to the Point where i want him to come to. I've Never Talked about OUR LESS belief in Quran Bcoz we MAY have MORE belief in Quran than him.
I'm sure that our pt. of Discussion was, & Really is, that
the Quran in OUR HANDS today was Historically Revealed Long Long AGO to a person of Makkah; Muhammad (pbuh) son of Abdullah. If Bro. Samsher blieve in this Historical Fact, & I'm sure he do SO, then my Simple Q is
"HOW historically that Quran has Reached US?"
I'm repeating my This Question for the LAST TIME & I'll respond ONLY if I'll get my answer i.e. the Reqired Answer. In CLEAR words the Historical Process according to the Opinion of Samsher about the Quran.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Friday, May 04, 2007  -  10:01 AM Reply with quote
Salam brother Ibrahim,

Q:- w salam & Thanks Br. SK samsher Ali for Posting ur Opinion Against ME. I personally think that HERE should END this Dialog between YOU & US & let the Readers to Decide of their OWN.

R:- Ofcourse.


Q:- But at the Same Time I Just want to Repeat it again

R:- Why brother? Why do you not end here?????


Q:-that "My pt. has NOT been Understood Properly by Bro Samsher"


R:- I understood your point MORE THAN 100% But you did not try to understand willfully my point even 1%, ..


Q:- All the time while Replying to ME, he has NOT come to the Point where i want him to come to.

R:- Believers of this forum can see easily who had replied or has been replying since long to the point. Don ‘t blow your own trumpet.


Q:- I've Never Talked about OUR LESS belief in Quran Bcoz we MAY have MORE belief in Quran than him.

R:- Oh! Really? Then please tell the believers of this forum i.e. in your regular 5 times salat, which tone do you use? You claimed yourself that you give your reply to the point. So pl. give your reply to the point and don’t try to FLEE because past experience says me that several times you FLED form my questions by hook or by crook. Don’t try this time.


Q:- I'm sure that our pt. of Discussion was, & Really is, that
the Quran in OUR HANDS today was Historically Revealed Long Long AGO to a person of Makkah; Muhammad (pbuh) son of Abdullah. If Bro. Samsher blieve in this Historical Fact, & I'm sure he do SO, then my Simple Q is
"HOW historically that Quran has Reached US?"


R:- Would you tell me first what do you want to prove by your this question?? I have already given my opinion through my posts dated 27th April,2007, 26th April, 2007 specially on 25th April, 2007 & 2nd May,2007

2ndly, the answer of your above question also lies in your reply to my questions,If you are able to give, which I asked you through my previous mails posted on April 27 April 26 & April 25, 2007


Q:- I'm repeating my This Question for the LAST TIME & I'll respond ONLY if I'll get my answer i.e. the Reqired Answer. In CLEAR words the Historical Process according to the Opinion of Samsher about the Quran.


R:- If you'r not blind, then I am 100% sure that you had already seen it, but trying to bypass it.

Samsher.
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, May 04, 2007  -  4:43 PM Reply with quote
AOA Ibrahim

quote:

I'm sure that our pt. of Discussion was, & Really is, that
the Quran in OUR HANDS today was Historically Revealed Long Long AGO to a person of Makkah; Muhammad (pbuh) son of Abdullah. If Bro. Samsher blieve in this Historical Fact, & I'm sure he do SO, then my Simple Q is
"HOW historically that Quran has Reached US?"


My friend I do not completely agree with S Ali. However I am not sure what is your point here.
Briefly: the Quran since its revelation has reached us in writen form. Although there are many who have memorised it by heart and continue to do so today and will do in the future. Also the actual content is accepted by all the so called sects. If you are trying to use the above point to justify the existance of Sunnah then I am afraid it is very weak or perhaps a non existant point. Perhaps you could clarify exactly the point you are trying to illustrate.
regards
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, May 05, 2007  -  6:11 PM Reply with quote
Oh! yes let me see yes there are some good hadith so we cant just abandon these. Hmmm! well I think Satan used to be an angel i.e a good duy once so why dont we also worship him....equates to same logic as the hadith followers.

Edited by: ibrahim on Monday, May 07, 2007 6:28 AM
rishadrizvi

INDIA
Posted - Sunday, May 06, 2007  -  8:47 AM Reply with quote
Brother Perv1,
Satan Iblis was a JINN and not and Angel. Pls refer to 18:50, Al Quraan.
-------------------------------------
A Q: for Brother Tariq Hashmi!
Are there any references for the torment in grave(Azaab-e-Qabr) in Quraan. while Quraan states clearly that the sinners shall be punished on the day of the final Judgement.???
Jazakallah,
Rishad
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 07, 2007  -  7:27 AM Reply with quote
Salam brother Samsher,

I'm Sorry that I've to say here something Despite willing to END this Dialog & Espeically Despite NOT getting the Simple Answer of My Simplest Question.

I think that Most of the Readers of this LONG Forum will AGREE w My Claim that My pt. has STILL NOT been Understood Properly by Bro Samsher
OR
I can ADD this time that If he has Understood it really as he's Claiming then at least he's UNABLE to Reply it Properly.
Surely Bro. You've Replied & are Replying & I Know will carry Replying BUT not according to the Pt. of Discussion. According to My memory, You had replied ONLY ONCE about my Q Last year BUT astonishingly YOUR answer was BASED on Ahadith OR was SAME as of the Believers of Ahadith as Source of Religion is. Y this Similarity is?
I've NEVER tried to FLEE from replying You in the PAST. Actually before Replying to MY Q, Most of the Time you have PUT CROSS questions as you'v DONE AGAIN in your Post by Raising your PET Q about "TONE in regular 5 times salat"
& Plz Note that I'll Give Answers of Your ALL Qs BUT Only n Only If'll Get answer of MY Q i.e. Your Answer telling US about the Historical Journey of TIME that this Wonderful HOLY Quran has Travelled.
quote:

Q:- "HOW historically that Quran has Reached US?"
R:- Would you tell me first what do you want to prove by your this question??

I Want to PROVE NOTHING Dear!
I have already given my opinion through my posts that if U agree w us That Revelation of Quran has Happened about 1450 yrs AGO then Plz Plz Plz TELL us ONLY about HOW Quran has Practically Reached to YOU B coz U're not accepting OUR claim that This has happened VIA "Twaatur n Ijmaa"
quote:

2ndly, the answer of your above question also lies in your reply to my questions,If you are able to give, which I asked you through my previous mails posted on April 27 April 26 & April 25, 2007
No Brother, the CASE is Opposite HERE i.e. "the answer of your above n All other questions lies ONLY n ONLY in your reply to my only ONE n v SIMPLE question"
So if u r Really Serious in this Discussion then Plz Do Not Run Away this time from Giving the Required Ans & PLZ DO NOT PUT YOUR Qs too. 1 st Give me ur Answer & then Let me Comment on it & Then if Needed I'll myself ASK you to Put Forward your ALL qs 1 by 1 & I'll Give U All your Answers.
& Plz Believe ME, I've not SEEN answer of My Q. so it's a BLAME on ME that "I am trying to bypass it"
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 07, 2007  -  8:40 AM Reply with quote
WS perv1
quote:

My friend I do not completely agree with S Ali. However I am not sure what is your point here.
Briefly: the Quran since its revelation has reached us in writen form. Although there are many who have memorised it by heart and continue to do so today and will do in the future. Also the actual content is accepted by all the so called sects. If you are trying to use the above point to justify the existance of Sunnah then I am afraid it is very weak or perhaps a non existant point. Perhaps you could clarify exactly the point you are trying to illustrate.
Brother, Plz Note that the PRESNET WRITTEN form of Quran Has Come into being after SEVERAL developments & the Written form in the Era of Prophet is Such that EVEN me CANNOT read it Properly DESPITE being a HAFIZ of Quran & Despite been Able to READ Arabic without "Ieraab" (Text w.out Vowels)
So I JUST want to Convey that regarding Quran at least Following things has Reached us By the Consensus n Continuity i.e. by "Ijmaa & Tawatur"

Its 'TEXT' from "al-Hamd to wan-Naas"
Its 'Method of Reading' i.e. How to read that Text. For Example the Writing of 1st word of 3rd verse of 1st Surah can be Read in MANY ways but thru "Ijmaa & Tawatur" there is Only ONE reading of IT & that is; Maaliki ...
Its 'Order'
& Our Claim is that the Practises found in Islam (Practicle forms of Salat, Zakat etc.) have ALSO reached Us thru the SAME above mentioned Process & Only these Practises r Called "Sunnah" & Nor All Ahadith Bcoz Muslim Ummah has NEVER claimed that Ahadith too fulfill the Conditions of "Ijmaa & Tawatur".
So HOW do U think that My pt. is WEAK? or
WHY it's a "non existant point" in ur Opinion & Plz Explain HOW?
Well I've tried My Best to Clearify My point BUT I'm NOT sure How Successful I am?
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, May 07, 2007  -  10:25 AM Reply with quote
AOA Ibrahim

quote:

Brother, Plz Note that the PRESNET WRITTEN form of Quran Has Come into being after SEVERAL developments & the Written form in the Era of Prophet is Such that EVEN me CANNOT read it Properly DESPITE being a HAFIZ of Quran & Despite been Able to READ Arabic without "Ieraab" (Text w.out Vowels)


My friend I dont wish to be rude (& I sincerely hope it does not come across as such) I think ou need to clear the confusion in your mind. The development of the language will contiue but the message will remain the same e.g the word car may gradually be replaced by small vehicle, ghari etc but the meaning remains the same & also the original form is there for the reference. Where as the practice of your so called sunnah can be changed without any references to the original and is no different to changing fashions. In fact your whole arguement becomes flawed when you see the practices being carried out which you claim are based on consensus. Each sect has developed his own practices with no references other than what they may claim to be he consensus of this group.
In fact the corruption in Islam, prior to prophet Mohd, occured by so called consensus of the masses and the continuation of practices such as idol worship in mecca. Despite Allah eliminating such practices by sending the Quran you wish to go along the path of pre Quranic days by your so called extra quranic sunnah. Despite the obvious evidence in front of you that it has brought nothing but division and corruption in Islam you still continue to follow it. That is your choice but it has neither any logical or Qurqnic basis for it.
regards
Abrar75

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, May 08, 2007  -  5:35 AM Reply with quote
Dear Samsher,
It is interesting to tell you that I am not Ahl e Hadith. I believe that whichever is againt Quran, batter to quit it. But Sunnah and Ahadith is also a treasure and we should accept it.
Prophet already told (in a Sahih Ahadith) 1400 year before that my Ummah will be divided into 73 sects. So may be I and you are one of them, but we should respect each other beliefs, and not through other ideas into dustbin.
There are many prophecies of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) which have been fulfilled during the past centuries and I am mentioning here only few. You can see this in books published a century ago. So how can we say this is wrong?
Ther are many prophecies which fulfill in prophet life and soon after him, bit I know you will not believe in them and say that people made them. So I am mentioned only those which Prophet said about our times around 1400 years before.

Propeht told about signs, near the day of Judgment in Sahih Bukhari:
(You can see, how great they are and fulfilling now)

Narrated Hadrat Anas (may Allah be pleased with him): Allah's Messenger (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) said, "From among the portents of the Hour are (the following):
Religious knowledge will be taken away and (Religious) ignorance will prevail.
Drinking of alcoholic drinks (will be very common).
There will be prevalence of open illegal sexual intercourse.

Other signs he mentioned in various Ahadiths are summarized hare. (All references can be provided on request and Prophet sayings can be seen in books published 1400 year ago, not by now)
The barefooted bedouins competing in building tall buildings. The Mosques would be like palaces. Disappearance of trustworthiness, so much so that one would only be able to say: "I know a trustworthy person in such-and-such town." The increase in killing, so that the one who kills does not know why he killed, and the one killed does not know why he was killed. The increase of the use of riba (usury/interest). The enemies of the Muslims dividing the Muslim's wealth and lands between them. The increase of musical instruments, and the Muslims making it lawful even though the Prophet has forbidden them. The increase of sexual promiscuity, and new diseases that people had not herd of before spreading amongst them as a consequence of that (May be Prophets prophesized about AIDS). Nakedness of women while still being dressed and people copulating like donkeys in public. Shouting in the mosques and lack of unity. The worst and most ignorant will become leaders and they will be oppressors. A man will obey his wife and disobey his mother, and treat his friends kindly and shun his father.
The Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, predicted the Mongol invasion, saying: The Hour will not come before you fight against a people with red faces, small, slant eyes and flat noses. They wear hairy leather boots.
How is it that even though the Prophet made all these prophecies, Christian missionaries are still trying to reject the prophetic mission of Muhammad (pbuh).
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, May 12, 2007  -  6:23 AM Reply with quote
nice to hear perv1. (although your post is not too long, the quotations have made it extend the limit of A4 size page. is better to split such into two in future plz.
as for your point re: 'people blindly following hadith since generations' you should be please that this era has come to an end alhamdulillah and we now have scholars, although handful in the world, including the scholars at almawrid institute of islamic sciences, who are doing this hard work of scientifically and critically analyzing the hadith literature and bringing out the essence of this treasure which has unfortunately been swathed by made up stories over the years because hardly anyone took the trouble of applying the science of hadith.


ps some details from our offerred courses

ii. Sunnah does not depend on H~adi'th

Again, since the Sunan are practices relating to essential and inevitable
occasions of our lives, they are received, learnt and acquired from the living
traditions in the society. Every Muslim born in this Ummah observes these
practices in a concrete and real form and learns them from his elders, teachers and
Muslims at large. We do not need to learn Sunnah from books. Sunnah is, as we have stated earlier, a real, living tradition which is ubiquitous in the Muslim Ummah, It is not hidden anywhere and it is extremely easy to understand because it does not consist of concepts and opinions. If there were no books on H~adith, the Sunnah would have still been there with the same authenticity and same clarity.



And now when we have the Sunnah and the H~adith literature side by side with us,we do not need the confirmation of Sunnah from the books on H~adith. Instead we would confirm the authenticity of H~adith from comparison with the Sunnah.
contd:
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, May 12, 2007  -  6:28 AM Reply with quote
If we study how a common Muslim learns to offer daily prayers, we would
immediately know that when he is born, or converted, he finds that daily prayers are being offered in the community by a large number of people. Even those who do not pray do know the formal method to pray. A young Muslim or a new entrant to this faith learns how to offer his daily prayers from the society – from his elders and teachers. He does not learn about the method and procedure of this mandatory
worship from books on history or H~adith.


This is perfectly in line with the wishes of God and his Prophet (sws).

The Holy Prophet (sws) did not make any arrangements for recording his sayings.

He only ensured that two things should be preserved and communicated:
• The body of words and sounds contained in the Holy Qur’an
• The body of practices constituting the Sunnah


And it is within these two that the entire Islam is preserved. Islam like most of other religions consists of two components – beliefs and practices. The beliefs have been succinctly stated in the Holy Qur’an while the practices are embodied
in the Sunnah.


According to the Muslim ideology, if we want to find out the Sunan, we should
look for them in the traditions and practices of Muslim Ummah and not in the
books of history.


contd next: Do Muslim Sects disagree over the Sunnah?
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, May 12, 2007  -  11:15 AM Reply with quote
AOA Henna

Sorry about the length of the previous post. I myself dislike lengthy ramblings but I felt i had to address the points raised by the previous writer.

As for your point regarding the sunna-I am afraid we will just have to disagree on this point (although I am not 100% sure as we might be not too far apart on this point)

quote:

He only ensured that two things should be preserved and communicated:
• The body of words and sounds contained in the Holy Qur’an
• The body of practices constituting the Sunnah


I have no problems with your first point but i do have problems with the second.
If you accept your first point then the second becomes irrellevent because I have not been able to find anything in te Quran whichjustifies the existance of the so called unwritten sunna.
As I pointed out earlier if you start to introduce social etiquettes as part of religion then you will gradually end up with pre Quranic days and start to worship all sort of idols. you might consider this as ridiculous situation but then you only have to look aound to see how muslims have adopted all sort of unwritten practices i.e belief in Peers etc and they make the same justification as your group does for the sunna.
Islam came to reinforce previous messages and to correct the corruption that humans had introduced in Gods messages. These corruptions have usuall occured as a result each generation, group or even misguided individuals introducing extras to Gods message. I am afraid the main body of this site group is guilty of the very same thing.
i have no problem with your group propogating various method of prayers etc as long as it is consistent with the Quran. As long as it is only God that is worshipped the method (to me ) is almost irrellevent.

I am just curious how the founder of this site justify something which does not exist in the Quran.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, May 15, 2007  -  12:40 PM Reply with quote
Salam brother Ibrahim,

I have already replied to your question, but you did not like that or may be you did not want to understand my point, then what can I do brother??? I am here to give the reply of questions according to Qur’an not according to person’s whims like yours. So if you dislike my reply because of this does not fit your whims, then I can’t do anything.


However, you tried to say that quran reached us through ‘continuity & consensus’ and also the ‘sunnah’(fabricated, as it has even no single reference in Qur’an, so I call them as fabricated) of Muhammad and AS BOTH ARE REACHED US THROUGH THE SAME WAY i.e. Continuity, Consensus, so you should consider them as Sources of Law of Islam!!!!

Brother I again say Continuity, Consensus are not any CRITERION(FURQAN). THE ONLY FURQAN/STATUTE BOOK in Islam is ONLY THE NOBEL QUR’AN(for ours). Also Almighty God says in Qur’an that IT is the ONLY SOURCE OF LAW (6:114-115). Almighty God also says that Qur’an is written in a perfect Arabic tongue. God is the one who is stating that, not me or anybody else. No Ijmaa or Tawatur is needed to read and understand the perfect, yet easy to understand, perfect Arabic Qur’an.

26:193] The Honest Spirit (Gabriel) came down with it.

[26:194] To reveal it into your heart, that you may be one of the warners.

[26:195] In a PERFECT ARABIC TONGUE

[12:2] We have revealed it an Arabic Quran, that you may understand.

[54:17, 22, 32, 40] We made the Quran EASY TO LEARN. Does any of you wish to learn?

Qur’an is the Only Criterion, not because it reached to us through your continuity, consensus!! Qur’an is the Furquan/Criterion because ALMIGHTY GOD SAYS SO IN THE QUR’AN, but in favour of your fabricated sunnah, Qur’an did not say even a single word. Continuity, Consensus are two words which you people invented to justify yours claim. The followers of other religions (Jewish, Christians, Hindus…) use EXACTLY the same reason(like your continuity, consensus) to justify their fabricated lies about God and their religions.

Before Galileo Christiendom had consensus regarding FLAT EARTH.
Catholics have consensus regarding the deity of Jesus and Mary.

Then, why could those who call themselves Sunni or Shiite not have similarly false ideas?

Furthermore, what is the definition of consensus? If You Exclude Those Who Disagree With A Particular Group As Heretics, Then Consensus Is A Sectarian Trick.

Now I ask you a question, do you believe that ONLY because of your Twatur, Ijmaa, your Qur’an reached to you? OR do you believe/think that besides these two(twatur, Ijmaa), Qur’an could not be reached to you or can’t be reached to future generations???

MY OPINION:

I think as Qur’an does not support your theory that It reached us or will be reached to future generations through continuity, consensus, so I can’t believe on these two.

I believe that it is ALMIGHTY GOD, WHO TOOK THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PRESERVE THE MESSAGE(QUR’AN) TILL THE END OF THE WORLD AND IN THIS WAY THE QUR’AN REACHED TO US AND WILL BE REACHED TO FUTURE GENERATIONS.

I also believe that ‘if one’s belief and trust in the Qur’an is based on Tawatur & Ijmaa of some people, then THE SOURCE OF FAITH AND TRUST IS MISPLACED’.

to be continued....
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, May 15, 2007  -  12:48 PM Reply with quote
In continuation....

Q:- I've NEVER tried to FLEE from replying You in the PAST. Actually before Replying to MY Q, Most of the Time you have PUT CROSS questions as you'v DONE AGAIN in your Post by Raising your PET Q about "TONE in regular 5 times salat"

R:- This is not any pet. q. as you said. Suppose you are suffering from an ailment and you have gone to a doctor. Your doctor may ask some questions to you regarding your ailment so that he can treat you properly. Now can you ask your doctor by saying ‘why do you ask me question before curing my ailment’? No. In the same way I asked you this because I wanted to cure your sick mind and also to convey you that your theory of continuity, consensus have no value in islam.

It would also be cleared if you had given the answer of my question, but you, by hook or by crook, avoided it because you know very will that if you had given the answer of my this question according to your will, then your theft would have been caught read-handed.


Q:- & Plz Note that I'll Give Answers of Your ALL Qs BUT Only n Only If'll Get answer of MY Q i.e. Your Answer telling US about the Historical Journey of TIME that this Wonderful HOLY Quran has Travelled.

R:- Hope now you have seen clearly my opinion above. Now please give the reply to my questions.


Q:-I Want to PROVE NOTHING Dear!

R:- smile. Why do you try to conceal your inner intention?

You tried to say/prove that quran reached us through ‘continuity & consensus’ and also the ‘sunnah’(fabricated) of Muhammad and AS BOTH ARE REACHED US THROUGH THE SAME WAY i.e. Continuity, Consensus and when you can accept Qur’an as Source of Islamic Law then why not your fabricated sunnah??? This is your inner intention which you trying to disclose. In this regard you please refer your own opinion which you sent through one of your posts as below;

Your statement:

“ Our claim is that the practices(sunah) found in islam(practical froms of salat, zakat etc.) have ALSO REACHED US throught the SAME above mentioned Process(twatur, Ijmaa….”


Q:- So if u r Really Serious in this Discussion then Plz Do Not Run Away this time from Giving the Required Ans & PLZ DO NOT PUT YOUR Qs too.

R:- Smile. I have already replied. I did not run away.


Q:- 1 st Give me ur Answer & then Let me Comment on it & Then if Needed I'll myself ASK you to Put Forward your ALL qs 1 by 1 & I'll Give U All your Answers.
& Plz Believe ME, I've not SEEN answer of My Q. so it's a BLAME on ME that "I am trying to bypass it"


R:- I think now you have seen this, if you have even one eye.


Samsher
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, May 16, 2007  -  12:28 PM Reply with quote
Dear brother Abrar,

Q:- It is interesting to tell you that I am not Ahl e Hadith. I believe that whichever is againt Quran, batter to quit it. But Sunnah and Ahadith is also a treasure and we should accept it.

R:- Smile. Do you remember, in this regard I asked you a question, but you could not be able to reply till date? Brother pl. reply to this at first.

Q:- Prophet already told (in a Sahih Ahadith) 1400 year before that my Ummah will be divided into 73 sects. ………… So I am mentioned only those which Prophet said about our times around 1400 years before.

R:- Brother you are living in Fools’ Paradise as because you people do not care what Qur’an says. Qur’n says and also Muhammad himself said that he had no ability to tell the future event.
One of the criteria that God gave us to judge the truth about His words, is the fact that, God's words do not contradict themselves.

[4:82] .............. If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it numerous contradictions.

While Quran has no contradictions, the sincere student of Islam (Submission in English), will find so many contradictions in the Hadiths books that will make him/her realize beyond any doubt that these books cannot be authored by the prophet Muhammed or approved by God Almighty.

One of the issues that always comes up when we discuss this great religion with some of the traditional Muslims, e.g. Sunni, Shia, Ahmadiyya, Ismaili,...etc., is the issue of future telling that fills the hadiths books. These books have so many hadiths in which the prophet Muhammed told of future events. It is interesting to know also that the same books contradict themselves and carry other hadiths that inform the reader that the prophet cannot tell the future.

It does not surprise us that these books that were never authorized by God or the prophet , contradict themselves and contradict the Quran.
The Quran emphatically confirmed that the Prophet Muhammed did not know the future. Even when God told us that he may gave some of the future knowledge to some of His messengers, God insisted on proving to us that Muhammed did not.

The Quran did that in a systemic approach. God told us that Muhammed is ONLY a human being like us.

[18:110]

Say (O Muhammed), "I am no more than a human like you, being inspired that your god is one god.

We humans, and all those like us DO NOT KNOW THE FUTURE. Then God informs us that all the messengers do not know what happened to the people who came after their death (future).

[5:109]

The day will come when GOD will summon the messengers and ask them, "How was the response to you?" They will say,"We have no knowledge. You are the Knower of all secrets."

To emphasize that fact and give it to us straight forward, God tells us in 46:9

[46:9]

Say (O Muhammed), "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner."
To confirm it even more God repeat this information in 7:188;

[7:188 ]

Say (O Muhammed), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. If I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe."

[6:50]

Say (O Muhammed), "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of GOD. Nor do I know the future. Nor do I say to you that I am an angel. I simply follow what is revealed to me." Say, "Is the blind the same as the seer? Do you not reflect?"

Despite these straight forward verses, many traditional Muslims refuse to believe the Quran and insist that the prophet Muhammed told of future events. One of their famous fabrications is a hadith in which there is a prediction of those who will uphold the Quran ALONE with warning to do like them. Another famous fabrication is the hadith telling about future sects and their number. We need no more proof than the Quran and when faced with those who claim to be Muslims but refuse to believe God in His own book, we remember 18:57;

[18:57]

Who are more evil than those who are reminded of their Lord's proofs, then disregard them, without realizing what they are doing. Consequently, we place shields on their hearts to prevent them from understanding it (the Quran), and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what you do to guide them, they can never ever be guided.

Q:- The increase of musical instruments, and the Muslims making it lawful even though the Prophet has forbidden them.

R:- Nowhere Qur’an says that Musical instruments are illegal. Also Prophet had no right to permit or prohibit anything. It is God only who have the right to permit or prohibit anything.

Samsher.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, May 18, 2007  -  12:39 AM Reply with quote
aray bhai samsher sb -seems that you are never satisfied by any of the replies. what can poor abrar do anyway good to have a quest for knowledge--as such find the Truth one day--most likely

Prophet Muhammad sws had every right to make things permissible or impermissible-being the prophet of God. uptill the Day of Judgement it is only the person of Muhammad pbuh now who is the source of guidance-because Qur'an was revealed to him, he propagated it, and promoted it to the generations.people who deny him as the guide deny islam

ii. The Sunnah only consists of practices and not doctrines and texts

When we go through the Sunan of the Holy Prophet (sws),we immediately discover that the Sunnah wholly consists of practical matters (acts to be done). It does not include any matters of faith, belief, religious concepts, opinions,interpretations of the Qur’an, background of the Qur’anic revelation, history etc.
These are concepts & ideas to be believed and understood. They have nothing to do with the Sunnah. The very word Sunnah connotes practical matters andexcludes dogma and doctrine from its sphere. Muslims believe that the Holy
Qur’an adequately covers these areas.


contd: (from Studying Islam courses)

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