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perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Wednesday, September 06, 2006  -  7:12 PM Reply with quote
Salaam SKali

Salam dear perv1

quote:

Quote:- My friend it is like banging your head against a brick wall, when you have such logic that 2+2 =5 is not wrong because you have not grasped the whole picture.

REPLY:- Did you tell this about me? If yes, then could you clarify your opinion?


This was not aimed at yourself but the people who cannot understand the Quran and when the balatanyly obvious contradiction are pointed out to them their reply is : Yes but not all hadith are contradictory besides you do not fully understand the whole picture. They are therefore unlikely to accept anything from you or anyone else no matter how many Quranic verses are given in to them. If you go back few pages you will see their logic and realise why I made the comment.
I have no issues with anyone who believes in Quran as Gods word and accepts that it is God who will teach them the Quran

regards
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Wednesday, September 06, 2006  -  10:10 PM Reply with quote
Salaam all

What has Rashad khalifa got to deo with this topic. If you wish to discuss him then start another topic and if has any followers they can debate with you. Just for your information most I rejected hadith when I started studying them, along with the Quran. I had never even heard of Rashid until much later& I certainly am not his follower.
Rubbishing Rashid Khalifa does not prove the validity of the hadiths.

As i said stick to the topic, if you wish to discuss the above individual-started another thread

regards
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, September 07, 2006  -  8:54 AM Reply with quote
Salam brother perv 1,

Quote:- This was not aimed at yourself but the people who cannot understand the Quran and when the balatanyly obvious contradiction are pointed out to them their reply is : Yes but not all hadith are contradictory besides you do not fully understand the whole picture. They are therefore unlikely to accept anything from you or anyone else no matter how many Quranic verses are given in to them. If you go back few pages you will see their logic and realise why I made the comment.

I have no issues with anyone who believes in Quran as Gods word and accepts that it is God who will teach them the Quran


REPLY : Thanks…………

Peace
Samsher.
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, September 07, 2006  -  12:35 PM Reply with quote
SALAAM NONSTOPTAXI

This discussion is not about Rashid Khalifa or any other individual. It is about the Quran, hadith and sunna. I dont know why you seem to be under the impression that anyone who follows the quran only must be an RK follower. I dont know whetehr it is due lack of knowldge or something else. Quran only followers have been around from the time of prophet Mohd (yes he was Quran only follower )and many other famous individuals since long before RK. RK was an individual (whether you agree or disagree with his work is up to you) and as you seem obcessed with him I suggest you start a new thread to discuss his work with his followers (if there are any) and not muddle the discussion by going of into tnagent.
regards
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, September 08, 2006  -  5:12 AM Reply with quote
Dear Perv.1

There is good lesson for you in the Brother nonstoptaxi last post.Check following verse if it is also has been used the orignal word hadith as used in (7:185 and 45:6)
by the person whos translation you have posted.

YUSUFALI 56:81] Is it such a MESSAGE that ye would hold in light esteem?

RASHAD 56:81] Are you disregarding this NARRATION?

ARABIC 56:81]Afabihaathal HADITHi antum mudhinoon.

How these people(Friends of Shatan) playing with Quran and interstingly the people like you who claim only follow Quran and thought that they understad the Quran best,are the mostly victims.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, September 08, 2006  -  12:40 PM Reply with quote
Quote:-He left it as it is in his English translation to teach the lesson to the idolworshiper that they should not believe any other HADITH besides QUR’AN

Allah is not intend to say this in the verse(7:185), then why he is changing the meaning of the verse?.Playing with Allah words to fullfill his personnel desires.He was not even honest in translating the Allah book then on whats elsc he would be honest?
perv1

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Friday, September 08, 2006  -  3:50 PM Reply with quote
salaam all

quote:

Allah is not intend to say this in the verse(7:185), then why he is changing the meaning of the verse?.Playing with Allah words to fullfill his personnel desires.He was not even honest in translating the Allah book then on whats elsc he would be honest?


Even considering you guys may have some hotline to Allah, as you seem to suggest when allah says the word HADITH Allah does not mean hadith. It is good job there are people here who understand Allah better than Allah understands himself- LET US ASSUME YOU ARE CORRECT AND TRANSLATE THE WORD BY CHANGING IT YOUR MEANING: It would still mean that whose saying are you going to believe besides the Quran - As it still does not seem to make any exceptions for anyones saying including Prophet Mohd, Bukhari, rashid khalifa etc.
Or is it that those who can understand Allah better than himself can see that he has made exceptions for the, often contradictory, collections of sayings collected by Bukhari and co that I seem to missed in that verse.

regards

P.s Usmani 790 I hope for a change you will stick to the topic. As you appear to find this very difficult and start making supposedly funny and pointless comments. Which are neither funny or contain any supposed wisdom. Also stop quoting Quranic verses at random which have no relation to the topic being discussed.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, September 09, 2006  -  9:01 AM Reply with quote
Dear perv1 Assalam Alikum

Quote:-Even considering you guys may have some hotline to Allah, as you seem to suggest when allah says the word HADITH Allah does not mean hadith.

Reply:-What I am saying that Allah is not referring here to the hadith of prophet(pbuh) as I said earlier but what haith means here is Quran as said by samsher correctly as well.

Quote:-It would still mean that whose saying are you going to believe besides the Quran

Reply:-You are correct here.But do you honestly think that by saying that, is Allah stopping people here not to believe in any other thing beside Quran?If I agree with you here that it is also referring to hadith of Prophet(pbuh)Bukhari,Muslim and so on then we only can say here(by looking at verse) if Quran is not working for them so hadith of Bukari,Muslim and any other will also not work for them to have the faith.If this interpretation is correct then those are the nonbelievers who beside Quran also don't believers in,hadith of Bukari,Muslim and so on.
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Sunday, September 10, 2006  -  10:14 AM Reply with quote
010.094
YUSUFALI: If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, September 12, 2006  -  12:58 PM Reply with quote
Salam,

Quote:- Allah is not intend to say this in the verse(7:185), then why he is changing the meaning of the verse?.Playing with Allah words to fullfill his personnel desires.He was not even honest in translating the Allah book then on whats elsc he would be honest?


REPLY:- He did not change the meaning of word hadith. He leavs it in this verse as it is in the Arabic Qur'an. This verse definitely says us that we should not believe any other hadith besides Qur'an. Any other means any other without any reservation.


Nowhere in the Qur'an Almighty Allah says us that we must believe on prophetic hadith(fabricated) besides his original hadith(Qur'an). If you find anywhere, then let me know.


Samsher.
Zulfee

USA
Posted - Tuesday, September 12, 2006  -  3:30 PM Reply with quote
Quotes of Nonstoptaxi:
quote:

1. You realize that the word Hadith is in fact in the verse but you must remember that Hadith means SPEECH, MESSAGE, SAYING.

quote:

2. You could see here that Rashad didn't transliterate them to be Hadith, but NARRATION. Why is that, I wonder? do you see some inconsistency. Alhamdulillah, Allah has shown the one of the tricks of him. That is not the only verse in his translation that he hid the word Hadith to be narration where he could. there are numerous places. SO BEWARE.


Could you explain the difference between NARRATION (Rashad’s word) and SPEECH, MESSAGE or SAYING (your favourite words)?
Zulfee

USA
Posted - Wednesday, September 13, 2006  -  12:07 PM Reply with quote
raushan
quote:

010.094
YUSUFALI: If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.


Is the verse not applicable to you and your team or you with your team are proving yourself the idol worshippers?
sahira

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Thursday, September 14, 2006  -  1:39 PM Reply with quote
salaam all, my question is for brother shamsher, i would like to know why you do not belive in the hadiths, apart from your obvious reply it being man made, why do you not belive in it.
the hadiths as i see it is just telling us in detail about the life of the Prophet pbuh it tells how the Prophet pbuh practiced the commands of Allah SWT which were given to him through revelations. we all agree the Quran is complete, but does not the hadiths co-inside with the quran? just giving us fuller details on how best to carry out acts? or just follow the acts by the best example to mankind the Prophet PBUH?.
Hadiths is man made its true but alot ofstuff that is in the hadiths comes from the quran only difference being it goes into more depth, it shows us mere mortals how best to carry out acts of worship or things that affect everyday life for a muslim. Sunnah started from the days of Prophet Abrahim AS, which has been passed down from generation to genration, untill it came down to the last messenger Prophet Mohammed PBUH who then re-instated some things,ultered others and brought in more stuff that Allah SWT commaneded him to do so. so then why before the prophet PBUH was sunnah accpeted after all it was man made meaning after the Prophet Abrahim AS people continued the sunnah from generation to generation on what basis, their great great grnadfathers use to do it? it was passed down from word of mouth, also through other messengers, there was no Quran sharif then, so why did people follow it? my point is the hadiths can not be all wrong especially if it works along side of the Quran sharif.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, September 18, 2006  -  7:56 AM Reply with quote
Salam Sahira,


Quote:- My question is for brother shamsher, i would like to know why you do not belive in the hadiths, apart from your obvious reply it being man made, why do you not belive in it.

REPLY :- BECAUSE ALMIGHTY ALLAH FORBADE US FROM TAKING IT AS OUR RELIGIOUS SOURCE. Our religious source is only Nobel Qur’an and nothing else.

The following verses confirm that the Quran is fully detailed and that it incorporates all matters :

"We did not leave anything out of this book.” 6:38

”Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?” 6:114

”The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.” 6:115

”This is not fabricated ‘hadith’; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a guidance and mercy for those who believe.” 12:111

”We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance and mercy and good news for the submitters.” 16:89

In spite of the very clear words : “fully detailed”, “details of everything” and “explanations for everything” the corrupted interpreters will claim that the Quran does not cover the details !!!! Sadly, they claim that the Quran has only mentioned the major outlines of the religion while as the details of everyday rituals are only to be found in the Sunna!

These corrupted beliefs only go to expose these people’s ignorance of the Quran. God has proclaimed that the Quran is perfect, fully detailed and complete.

All those who believe that the Quran does not include all the details of the religion or those who believe that the Quran is ambiguous .... etc ...., do not really believe the words of God in the Qur’an.


Now I urge you IF YOU WILL SHOW ME ANY VERSE FROM THE QUR’AN IN SUPPORT OF THESE (fabricated)HADITH, I assure you I shall InshAllah believe on these hadith. Could you please show me this?


Quote:- The hadiths as i see it is just telling us in detail about the life of the Prophet pbuh it tells how the Prophet pbuh practiced the commands of Allah SWT which were given to him through revelations. we all agree the Quran is complete, but does not the hadiths co-inside with the quran? just giving us fuller details on how best to carry out acts? or just follow the acts by the best example to mankind the Prophet PBUH?.


REPLY:- The Nobel Qur’an is NOT ONLY COMPLETE but it also FULLY DETAILED & FULLY EXPLAINED (see above the quranic verses). It will not make any sense that a book, which has already been fully detailed & explained by Allah, requires extra some other outside source(s) to make it further detail!!!

We learn from 18:109 that “If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out, even if we double the ink supply.” It’s not like He could not have given us more – more detail, more laws, more commandments. If anything extra would require for our salvation then Almighty Allah definitely would have given this in HIS Qur’an.

Fully detailed means FULLY DETAILED, no Ifs no Buts.

By the way I asked you a question. Please answer this to me in a straight way;

“Where did you find in the Qur’an that Muhamma commanded his people to take these hadith (fabricated) besides Qur’an as religious source of Islam OR explanation of Qur’an”? Please give me only reference.


Quote:- Hadiths is man made its true but alot ofstuff that is in the hadiths comes from the quran only difference being it goes into more depth, it shows us mere mortals how best to carry out acts of worship or things that affect everyday life for a muslim.


REPLY:- Why do you so anxious for those hadith which came from the Qur’an? Why do you feel that it requires for your salvation when the idea has already been given in detail in the qur’an? If you read Qur’an, you can get the idea completely.

2ndly, I told you that quran claims that It is FULLY DETAILED & EXPLAINED IN DETAI and if anything extra would require for our salvation, then Almighty Allah could have given in the Qur’an. So your thinking “….it goes into more depth…” is meaningless.


Quote:- Sunnah started from the days of Prophet Abrahim AS, which has been passed down from generation to genration, untill it came down to the last messenger Prophet Mohammed PBUH who then re-instated some things,ultered others and brought in more stuff that Allah SWT commaneded him to do so. so then why before the prophet PBUH was sunnah accpeted after all it was man made meaning after the Prophet Abrahim AS people continued the sunnah from generation to generation on what basis, their great great grnadfathers use to do it?


REPLY:- Brother, what is your religious CRITERION(FURQAN)? Is it not the Nobel Qur’an? If yes, then please give me any single reference from the Qur’an in support of your gossip i.e. “which has been passed down from generation to genration, untill it came down to the last messenger ????? Prophet Mohammed PBUH……. their great great grnadfathers use to do it”.


Another thing,suppose I accept your passed down theory, then please tell me ‘how can you be sure that no corruption could enter into these passed down theory’?

Brother, at first at least you say me that ‘where in the Qur’an you found Abraham’s sunnah or Prophet Muhammad’s sunnah’?


Quote:- It was passed down from word of mouth, also through other messengers, there was no Quran sharif then, so why did people follow it.


REPLY:- Brother, do you think that Qur’an Sharif is the only scripture, which Almighty Allah sent to mankind??? Do you think that people of Abraham, Moses, Jesus would follow man made saying of those prophets(called hadith)as their religious source???

All the Prophets were sent with Scriptures.

[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. FOR EACH OF YOU, WE HAVE DECREED LAWS AND DIFFERENT RITES. HAD GOD WILLED, HE COULD HAVE MADE YOU ONE CONGREGATION. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

Conclusion:-

The debate reached at 34 pages and at this stage some one asked me that “why do you not believe in hadith besides Qur’an”? Very nonsensical question.

Brother you should read all my posts from page 1 to 34 and after reading those, if you have anything new to ask, then you may ask this, I shall inshaAllah try to give my reply to the same on the basis of Qur’an. But one thing you should remember, if you had already took your decision that hadith(other than Qur’an, which is fabricated)should be regarded as religious source, then brother don’t ask me any question, because it will be of no useful to reply that question.

Peace.
Samsher.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, September 24, 2006  -  4:43 AM Reply with quote
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

GOD SAYS:

· You who believe! When the call is made for prayer on FRIDAY, then hasten to the remembrance of Allah and leave off trading; that is better for you, if you know (62: 9).

· The month of RAMAZAN is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction; therefore whoever of you is present in the month, he shall fast therein, and whoever is sick or upon a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire for you difficulty, and (He desires) that you should complete the number and that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks (2: 185).

MY QUESTION IS,

“According to Holy Quran, which day is the Friday and which month is the Ramazan?”

OR

“How does Holy Quran CONFIRM the day as Friday, which we consider it in our daily life i.e. the day between Thursday and Saturday and the month as Ramazan which we consider it in our daily life i.e. the month between Shaaban and Shawal?”

If Holy Quran confirms it is then Ok otherwise WHAT IS THE SOURCE, which we (almost every Muslim) FOLLOW to act upon the sayings of God (62: 9 and 2: 185)?

Thanking in anticipations!
nonstoptaxi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, September 24, 2006  -  11:35 AM Reply with quote
brother loveall,

the answer will :-
1.definitely be a vague one
2.be very long so that you can forget what you were asking
3.one half of the answer will be dedicated to abuses for CORRUPT FORM OF AHL HADITH GROUPS
4.It must be covering 6 sheets of A4 size paper
5.The answer must not contain anything new but a copy paste from regular posts as usual.
6.the looooooooong and dettttttttttailed answer will be posted 4-5 times so that an average participant will not be able to see your question .

the only trick these people playing since beginning is
to mould the question as per their (read submitters)convenience first

then quote some from khalifa and

end with abusing others in the worst terms.

Edited by: nonstoptaxi on Sunday, September 24, 2006 11:52 AM

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