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samsher

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, August 23, 2011  -  8:59 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

.....What is the Good Example of Messenger according to you brother? Please provide reference from Qur'an in support of your opinion. ......


The Qur’an, being of a miraculous exposition, is never otiose nor exceeds the proper terms.

Allah says,


He Who raised among the unlettered ones a Messenger from them, reciting to them His signs, purifies them and instructs them in the Book and the Wisdom. (al-Jumu‘a, 62.2)

In the above Verse, "Wisdom" comes after "Book" as a separate word. Therefore it must refer to something different from the Book.

The Book is the Qur’an and the Wisdom is the Sunnah which expands on what is brief in the Book and clarifies its ambiguities, specifies what is unconditional and general and vice versa, so that general principles or specific rulings can be understood from what is commanded in the Qur’an.

The Qur’an in many verses enjoins absolute obedience to God’s Messengers. This obedience is not due to their person, but because of their mission as the ‘officials’ of God in guiding people to truth both individually and socially, materially, intellectually and spiritually.


We have not sent a Messenger save to be obeyed by God’s leave. (al-Nisa’, 4.64)

O you who believe! Obey God and His Messenger, and do not turn away from him. (al-Anfal, 8.20)

Obedience to God means unconditional obedience to His Commandments in the Qur’an and His laws in life and in the operation of the universe.

Obedience to the Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, is following his way in all the aspects of life, in practicing the Qur’an, and in all the orders of the Messenger besides the Qur’an.

The Sunnah contains all the orders and prohibitions, warnings and encouragements of God’s Messenger, who said: Take care! I have been given the Book and its like together with it.

Verse 20 of al-Anfal warns the Muslims not to turn away from the Messenger. Therefore, disobedience to the Sunnah, even belittling and criticizing it, amounts to heresy, even apostasy.

There are many other verses which emphasize the importance of the Sunnah, or following the ex-ample of God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings:


O you who believe! Obey God and obey the Messenger and those in authority from amongst you. (al-Nisa’, 4.59)

The verse stresses, besides obedience to God, obedience to God’s Messenger, and the repetition of the verb obey in the imperative mood points to the fact that the Messenger has the authority to command or forbid, and that the Muslims must carry out his commands and refrain from his prohibitions. Besides, where obedience to those in authority who share the same faith and feelings as the Muslims, is ordered, the Prophet has a far greater right to be obeyed.

Another verse:


Obey God and His Messenger and do not dispute with one another, lest you should be dissolved (dispersed) and your strength fade away; and be steadfast. (al-Anfal, 8.46)

According to this verse, the strength and unity of the Muslims lie in their submission to God and His Messenger. The Sunna is the unique way or example set by God’s Messenger for the Muslims to follow. Also, it is through the Sunnah that a Muslim can live according to the Qur’an. By putting the Qur’an into practice, God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, established the way which the Muslims must follow. From this viewpoint, the Sunnah is more comprehensive than the Qur’an and, without it, the Muslims cannot design their life according to the Qur’an. So, obedience to God is pos-sible by obeying the Messenger or by following his Sunnah. This is explicitly stated in the following verse:

Say (O Muhammad!): ‘If you love God, follow me so that God loves you.’ (Al ‘Imran, 3.31)

Love of God is impossible for one to acquire without following the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings. No one can claim love of God, nor can he be loved by God, unless he follows the Sunnah, the example of the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, as this is the main source of our religious life, promoted and encouraged by the Qur’an.

Allah says, (translation of the meaning)


It is not for any believer, man or woman, when God and His Messenger have decreed a matter, to have the choice in the affair. Whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error. (al-Ahzab, 33.36)

And He says,

".........Nothing have we omitted from the Book......." (6:38)

Indeed, He has not omitted from the Book that the Prophet was given the Book and the Wisdom.(al-Jumu‘a, 62.2)

And,

Al-Imran [3:164]

لَقَدْ مَنَّ اللّهُ عَلَى الْمُؤمِنِينَ إِذْ بَعَثَ فِيهِمْ رَسُولاً مِّنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَإِن كَانُواْ مِن قَبْلُ لَفِي ضَلالٍ مُّبِينٍ

3:164 Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.

The Qur’an also declares:

Nay, by your Lord, they will never become believers until they choose you as judge to settle the matters in dispute between them. (al-Nisa’, 4.65)

Edited by: aboosait on Monday, August 22, 2011 4:32 AM


Reply:- What does mean to say "Obey God & Obey the messenger" I explained this in detail several times in this forum. No need to explain again here. I am going to explain here what does mean to say 'Wisdom' as follows;-


The word Al-Hikmah (Wisdom) in the Quran does NOT mean the Hadith and Sunna


Due to the fact that the Quran does not contain any mention of the words ‘Sunna of Muhammad’, the followers of the sunna found it necessary to manipulate the meaning of some Quranic words so as to create a Quranic reference to the ‘hadith’ and ‘Sunna’. The word on which they base their claim is that of (Al-Hikmah) as found in a number of verses such as:

"Remember God’s blessings upon you, and what He sent down to you of the ‘Al-Kitab’ and ‘Al-Hikmah’ to enlighten you 'bihi' (with it)." 2:231

Literally speaking, the meaning of ‘Al-Kitab’ is the book (the Quran), and ‘Al-Hikmah’ is wisdom. One can look in any number of Arabic dictionaries and will always come up with the same meaning. Nevertheless, in an attempt to create a reference for the Sunna of Muhammad in the Quran, when there is none, these interpreters have claimed that the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ refers to the Sunna of Muhammad!
Basically, they are saying that God used the word 'wisdom' but in actual fact he did not mean 'wisdom', but instead He meant the Sunna! Any impartial reader must wonder, is God trying to be ambiguous? and if God meant to indicate the Sunna, why did He not just say the Sunna of Muhammad?


Moreover, would God lie to us? Would He be referring to the sunna of Muhammad in 2:231, but at the same time tell us that the ONLY sunna is the sunna of God (33:62, 35:43 and 48:23)?


With a close inspection of the Quranic verses, it can be shown that this interpretation is totally false:


1- The word ‘bihee’ (with it) that appear at the end of 2:231, is in the singular mode, in other words it describes one thing and not two. For that reason the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ must denote one thing and not two, unless of course God is making grammatical mistakes!


If the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ really referred to the Quran and the Sunna, then the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’.


2- Throughout the Quran we are told that the only revelation sent down to Muhammad was the Quran. The personal sayings (hadith) of the prophet are not revelation, they are his own human words. Consequently, the words "what He sent down to you of the ‘Al-Kitab’ and ‘Al-Hikmah’ in 2:231 cannot denote the Quran and the Sunna, this is because the Sunna is not a revelation. The words "He sent down to you" make it clear that the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ cannot be speaking about the hadith of Muhammad.


3- The word ‘Al-Hikmah’ is used throughout the Quran as an adjective of the ‘Al-Kitab’ (the Quran). This is made evident in the following verses :


"Y.S., and the Quran Al-Hakim" 36:1-2

"A.L.R., these are the signs of the ‘Kitab Al-Hakim" 10:1 also 31:2



4- The same word ‘Al-Hikmah’ is used in the Quran in connection with prophets and messengers who lived before the time of Muhammad (P.B.U.H.). Obviously before Muhammad lived his Sunna did not exist. Thus to say that ‘Al-Hikmah’ means the Sunna of Muhammad is incorrect. Consider the following verses:


a- The following are God’s words to Jesus (P.B.U.H.):

"And I taught you the ‘Kitab’ (Scripture) and ‘Al-Hikmah’(wisdom)." 5:110


Clearly the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ here does not mean the Sunna of Muhammad.


b- The following were the words of Abraham (P.B.U.H.) as he implored his Lord:

"Our Lord, and send for them a messenger from among them to recite to them your ‘Ayat’ and teach them the ‘Kitab’ (Scripture) and ‘Al-Hikmah’ (wisdom)." 2:129


Again the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ here could not mean anything but wisdom. Abraham had no knowledge of the ‘Sunna’ of Muhammad.


5- A further evidence that the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ as used in the Quran means wisdom and not Sunna is found in the following verse:

"He bestows ‘Al-Hikmah’ upon whoever He pleases, and whoever attains ‘Al-Hekmah’ has indeed attained a great blessing." 2:269


The words "whoever He pleases" in this verse indicate that God bestows ‘Al-Hikmah’ upon any of the believers and not just His messengers. If we assume that ‘Al-Hikmah’ means the Sunna we would have to believe that any ordinary believer may also have his own personal Sunna that has to be followed by other believers! This of course is not the case. The verse would in stead make perfect sense if we accept the correct meaning of ‘Al-Hikmah’ which is wisdom.


6- In Sura 17, we are given a clear demonstration of the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ as being the ability to differentiate between right and wrong and the wisdom to choose what is right. If we read the verses from 22 to 39, we find God commanding us not to worship except Him, to honor our parents, to give due alms to our relatives, the needy, the poor, and the traveling alien but without being extravagant or stingy, not to kill our children for fear of poverty, not to commit adultery, nor to abuse the orphan’s money, to trade equitably and fairly, to verify everything before following it blindly and not to act vainly. After such valuable advice God informs us that these virtues are indeed what wisdom is all about.

In that sense ‘Al-Hikmah’ is not a book of ‘hadith’ (sayings) of one single person but instead a blessing which God gives His chosen servants.


7- Perhaps the simplest and most convincing reason for discarding the corrupted meaning of ‘Al-Hikmah’ so as to mean the Sunna, is the fact that God is neither vague nor fond of providing us with puzzles. God asserts that the Quran is straightforward, it contains no crookedness:

"An Arabic Quran, without any crookedness, that they may take heed." 39:28


Surely, had God willed that we should follow the teachings of the Quran plus the Sunna He would have mentioned the ‘Sunna of Muhammad’ explicitly in the Quran. Needless to say, the only Sunna that is mentioned in the Quran is the Sunna of God.


"This is the Sunna of God for those of the past, and you will find no alternative for the Sunna of God." 33:62


The Sunna of God is to be found in the Quran and previous Scripture.


Moreover if God had revealed to Muhammad an additional Sunna other than the Quran, as the Sunni’s would claim then we would expect God to say ‘We have revealed to you the Kitab (book) and the Sunna’ or words to that effect. Instead the only Revelation endorsed in the Quran is the Quran itself:


"And We have revealed to you the Kitab (the Quran) truthfully." 5:48


Indeed God takes an oath from His prophet of what was revealed to him. The oath contains nothing but the Quran:


"Say, ‘What is the greatest testimony?’ Say, ‘God is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed you bear witness that there are other gods beside God.’ Say, ‘I do not testify as you do; but surely He is one God, and I disown your idolatry." 6:19


Finally God commands the prophet to rule and arbitrate between the people with Quran and nothing but the Quran:


"We have sent down to you this Kitab, truthfully, in order to arbitrate between the people." 4:105


To conclude, the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ in any Arabic dictionary means wisdom. To leave the literal and direct meaning and accept a manipulated meaning is to reject the truth of the Quran.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, August 23, 2011  -  4:18 PM Reply with quote
quote:


.........the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ must denote one thing and not two, unless of course God is making grammatical mistakes!........
For the Christians, 3=1 and for Samsher 2=1.

quote:

2- Throughout the Quran we are told that the only revelation sent down to Muhammad was the Quran. .
I have quoted the verses of the Qur'an which say that apart from Qur'an, 'Hikmah' was also sent down to Prophet Mohammed Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam.

Edited by: aboosait on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 4:20 PM
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, August 24, 2011  -  8:49 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:


.........the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ must denote one thing and not two, unless of course God is making grammatical mistakes!........
For the Christians, 3=1 and for Samsher 2=1.

quote:

2- Throughout the Quran we are told that the only revelation sent down to Muhammad was the Quran. .
I have quoted the verses of the Qur'an which say that apart from Qur'an, 'Hikmah' was also sent down to Prophet Mohammed Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam.

Edited by: aboosait on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 4:20 PM


Reply:-

[pre]You have nothing to do brother aboosait except fleeing away from the truth. You can't stand in front of truth by grasping garbage. There is not any single verse in the Qur'an that supports your whims.


The following single verse is enough to prove that Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ denote one thing and not two;


"Remember God’s blessings upon you, and what He sent down to you of the ‘Al-Kitab’ and ‘Al-Hikmah’ to enlighten you 'bihi' (with it)." 2:231


The word ‘bihee’ (with it) that appear at the end of 2:231, is in the singular mode, in other words it describes one thing and not two. For that reason the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ must denote one thing and not two. If the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ really referred to the Quran and the Sunna, then the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’.


Now if you wish to remain blind yourself then I can’t do anything for you.[/pre]
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, August 24, 2011  -  8:50 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:


.........the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ must denote one thing and not two, unless of course God is making grammatical mistakes!........
For the Christians, 3=1 and for Samsher 2=1.

quote:

2- Throughout the Quran we are told that the only revelation sent down to Muhammad was the Quran. .
I have quoted the verses of the Qur'an which say that apart from Qur'an, 'Hikmah' was also sent down to Prophet Mohammed Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam.

Edited by: aboosait on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 4:20 PM


Reply:-

[pre]You have nothing to do brother aboosait except fleeing away from the truth. You can't stand in front of truth by grasping garbage. There is not any single verse in the Qur'an that supports your whims.


The following single verse is enough to prove that Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ denote one thing and not two;


"Remember God’s blessings upon you, and what He sent down to you of the ‘Al-Kitab’ and ‘Al-Hikmah’ to enlighten you 'bihi' (with it)." 2:231


The word ‘bihee’ (with it) that appear at the end of 2:231, is in the singular mode, in other words it describes one thing and not two. For that reason the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ must denote one thing and not two. If the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ really referred to the Quran and the Sunna, then the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’.


Now if you wish to remain blind yourself then I can’t do anything for you.[/pre]
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, August 25, 2011  -  5:43 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:


I declare firmly that I did not/do not discard any verse of the Qur'an. .

Do you believe in or reject the following Verse?
[33:21] *Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much *.



Opinion:- "A good example has been set for you by the messenger of God" (33:21). Those who wish to produce volumes of hadith books out of this verse ignore the fact that a similar statement is also made about Abraham: "A good example has been set for you by Abraham and those with him" (60:4, 6). If verse 33:21 requires Muhammad's hadith, then why would not the verses 60:4,6 require Abraham's hadith? Which books narrate hadiths from Abraham? Obviously, the only reliable source for both examples is the Book of God, which narrates the relevant exemplary actions. It also warns us not to repeat the mistakes committed by Muhammad (33:37; 80: 1-10).
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, August 25, 2011  -  3:34 PM Reply with quote
quote:


.....The word ‘bihee’ (with it) that appear at the end of 2:231, is in the singular mode, in other words it describes one thing and not two..........
It sure denotes only one thing; namely "wahiy" (revelation). Revelation came to the Prophet Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam in two forms - 1. 'Kitab' - the word of Allah in His own words and 2. 'Hikmah' which the Prophet taught us through his Sunnah which in turn is recorded in books of Hadith.

quote:

..... the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’....
Na'udhu billah. Teaching Allah to speak proper grammer? The word "bihee" in the Verse refers to one thing only . Not two. And that one thing is "revelation" as mentioned at the begining of the same Verse, ("....and what He sent down to you ...")

Please also accept your own quote as a gift from me.


quote:

Now if you wish to remain blind yourself then I can’t do anything for you.


Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, August 25, 2011 3:36 PM
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Friday, August 26, 2011  -  9:16 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:


.....The word ‘bihee’ (with it) that appear at the end of 2:231, is in the singular mode, in other words it describes one thing and not two..........
It sure denotes only one thing; namely "wahiy" (revelation). Revelation came to the Prophet Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam in two forms - 1. 'Kitab' - the word of Allah in His own words and 2. 'Hikmah' which the Prophet taught us through his Sunnah which in turn is recorded in books of Hadith.

quote:

..... the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’....
Na'udhu billah. Teaching Allah to speak proper grammer? The word "bihee" in the Verse refers to one thing only . Not two. And that one thing is "revelation" as mentioned at the begining of the same Verse, ("....and what He sent down to you ...")

Please also accept your own quote as a gift from me.


quote:

Now if you wish to remain blind yourself then I can’t do anything for you.


Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, August 25, 2011 3:36 PM

______________________________________

Brother, I never told that I am teaching Almighty God. You intentionally want to put your word in my mouth. This is very bad practice. I simply said that :-

“If the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ really referred to the Quran and the Sunna, then the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’.”

This means the words The Kitab & The hikmah denote ‘One’ thing and Not ‘Two’.

Oh! Yes you agreed that ‘Bihee’ in the verse referrers to one thing only & not two. But unfortunately you denied to accept the fact.

You imported here a new story that Revelation came to the prophet in two forms i.e. Al-Kitab & Al-Hikmah. It is surprised, from where did you bring this story.


The word ‘Al-Hikmah’ is used throughout the Quran as an adjective of the ‘Al-Kitab’ (the Quran). This is made evident in the following verses :


"Y.S., and the Quran Al-Hakim" 36:1-2

"A.L.R., these are the signs of the ‘Kitab Al-Hakim" 10:1 also 31:2

Hikmah’ or ‘Wisdom’ does not refer to something other than ‘Al-Kitab’, hence the thinking that “it is another type of revelation which the messenger received” is completely wrong as the Qur’an itself clarifies what is ‘Hikmah’, as we shall see.
The claim that ‘Hikmah’ is some revelation outside of the Qur’an is refuted by Allah Himself when after stating the divine values of the Qur’an, He says:

“This is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of ‘Hikmah’ (wisdom), and do not associate any other god with Allah lest you should be thrown into hell, blamed, cast away.”(17:39)

Thus the above verse identifies the Qur’an itself to be ‘Hikmah’, and it is confirmed that ‘Hikmah’ is simply another attribute of the Book of Allah.
Those who are under the misconception that ‘Hikmah’ is i.e. the “un recited revelation” outside of the Qur’an, are clarified in the following verse that ‘Hikmah’ is also i.e. recited revelation and is contained within the folds of Allah’s Book, not outside of it. The wives of Nabi (S.A.W) are reminded:

“And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware.” (33:34)

The above verse clearly states that ‘Along with the Ayat of Allah, ‘Hikmah’ was also recited in the homes of the wives of Nabi (S.A.W), thus this nullifies the claim that ‘Hikmah’ consists of ‘un recited revelation’.

The Qur’an makes it evident that ‘Hikmah’ is not some revelation outside of the Qur’an, but is simply another attribute of the Qur’an itself.
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Friday, August 26, 2011  -  9:21 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:


.....The word ‘bihee’ (with it) that appear at the end of 2:231, is in the singular mode, in other words it describes one thing and not two..........
It sure denotes only one thing; namely "wahiy" (revelation). Revelation came to the Prophet Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam in two forms - 1. 'Kitab' - the word of Allah in His own words and 2. 'Hikmah' which the Prophet taught us through his Sunnah which in turn is recorded in books of Hadith.

quote:

..... the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’....
Na'udhu billah. Teaching Allah to speak proper grammer? The word "bihee" in the Verse refers to one thing only . Not two. And that one thing is "revelation" as mentioned at the begining of the same Verse, ("....and what He sent down to you ...")

Please also accept your own quote as a gift from me.


quote:

Now if you wish to remain blind yourself then I can’t do anything for you.


Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, August 25, 2011 3:36 PM

---------------------------------------
Brother, I never told that I am teaching Almighty God. You intentionally want to put your word in my mouth. This is very bad practice. I simply said that :-

“If the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ really referred to the Quran and the Sunna, then the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’.”

This means the words The Kitab & The hikmah denote ‘One’ thing and Not ‘Two’.

Oh! Yes you agreed that ‘Bihee’ in the verse referrers to one thing only & not two. But unfortunately you denied to accept the fact.

You imported here a new story that Revelation came to the prophet in two forms i.e. Al-Kitab & Al-Hikmah, which is the Qur'an & sunnah mentioned Hadith book. It is surprised, from where did you bring this story.


The word ‘Al-Hikmah’ is used throughout the Quran as an adjective of the ‘Al-Kitab’ (the Quran). This is made evident in the following verses :


"Y.S., and the Quran Al-Hakim" 36:1-2

"A.L.R., these are the signs of the ‘Kitab Al-Hakim" 10:1 also 31:2

Hikmah’ or ‘Wisdom’ does not refer to something other than ‘Al-Kitab’, hence the thinking that “it is another type of revelation which the messenger received” is completely wrong as the Qur’an itself clarifies what is ‘Hikmah’, as we shall see.
The claim that ‘Hikmah’ is some revelation outside of the Qur’an is refuted by Allah Himself when after stating the divine values of the Qur’an, He says:

“This is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of ‘Hikmah’ (wisdom), and do not associate any other god with Allah lest you should be thrown into hell, blamed, cast away.”(17:39)

Thus the above verse identifies the Qur’an itself to be ‘Hikmah’, and it is confirmed that ‘Hikmah’ is simply another attribute of the Book of Allah.
Those who are under the misconception that ‘Hikmah’ is i.e. the “un recited revelation” outside of the Qur’an, are clarified in the following verse that ‘Hikmah’ is also i.e. recited revelation and is contained within the folds of Allah’s Book, not outside of it. The wives of Nabi (S.A.W) are reminded:

“And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware.” (33:34)

The above verse clearly states that ‘Along with the Ayat of Allah, ‘Hikmah’ was also recited in the homes of the wives of Nabi (S.A.W), thus this nullifies the claim that ‘Hikmah’ consists of ‘un recited revelation’.

The Qur’an makes it evident that ‘Hikmah’ is not some revelation outside of the Qur’an, but is simply another attribute of the Qur’an itself.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Friday, August 26, 2011  -  4:04 PM Reply with quote
quote:


“And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware.” (33:34)


...And "al-hikmah" should be translated as "the wisdom" and not just "wisdom" .The topic begins with "And bear in mind". Two things have to be borne in mind:

1. that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah

and,

2. The Hikmah

Thus it is evident from the Qur’an that ‘Hikmah’ is the revelation bestowed upon the Prophet Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam outside of the Qur’an,


Al-Ahzab (33):34

وَاذْكُرْنَ مَا يُتْلَى فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ مِنْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ وَالْحِكْمَةِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ لَطِيفًا خَبِيرًا

And remember (O you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord),

that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allâh (i.e. Al Qur'an)

and Al Hikmah(i.e. Prophet's Sunnah legal ways, etc. so give your thanks to Allâh and glorify His Praises for this Qur'an and the Sunnah).

Verily, Allâh is Ever Most Courteous, Well­Acquainted with all things. (Al-Ahzab 33:34)

Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, September 01, 2011 1:22 AM
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Friday, September 02, 2011  -  8:22 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:


“And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware.” (33:34)


...And "al-hikmah" should be translated as "the wisdom" and not just "wisdom" .The topic begins with "And bear in mind". Two things have to be borne in mind:

1. that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah

and,

2. The Hikmah

Thus it is evident from the Qur’an that ‘Hikmah’ is the revelation bestowed upon the Prophet Sallallahu 'alaihi wasallam outside of the Qur’an,


Al-Ahzab (33):34

وَاذْكُرْنَ مَا يُتْلَى فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ مِنْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ وَالْحِكْمَةِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ لَطِيفًا خَبِيرًا

And remember (O you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord),

that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allâh (i.e. Al Qur'an)

and Al Hikmah(i.e. Prophet's Sunnah legal ways, etc. so give your thanks to Allâh and glorify His Praises for this Qur'an and the Sunnah).

Verily, Allâh is Ever Most Courteous, Well­Acquainted with all things. (Al-Ahzab 33:34)

Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, September 01, 2011 1:22 AM

---------------------------------------
REPLY:- Brother aboosait after long discussion with you regarding the words “Al-Kitab” & “Al-Hikmah”, I think probably you willfully do not want to accept the truth, which is “Al-Kitab” & “Al-Hikmah” describe/denote ONE THIG AND NOT TWO. I told again & again in the light of Qur’an that Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ denote one thing and not two. The following single verse is enough to prove that;


"Remember God’s blessings upon you, and what He sent down to you of the ‘Al-Kitab’ and ‘Al-Hikmah’ to enlighten you 'bihi' (with it)." 2:231


The word ‘bihee’ (with it) that appear at the end of 2:231, is in the singular mode, in other words it describes one thing and not two. For that reason the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ must denote one thing and not two. If the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ really referred to the Quran and the Sunna, then the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’.


I did not say anywhere that “Al-Hikmah” should be translated as just ‘wisdom’. The word “Al-Hikmah” must be translated as ‘The wisdom’. But so what? The above verse also says us about “Al-Kitab” & “Al-Hikmah”, yet the verse in concerned says us that “Al-Kitab” & “Al-Hikmah” denote/describe as one thing and not two.


If not, now please another verse;-


"He bestows ‘Al-Hekmah’ upon whoever He pleases, and whoever attains ‘Al-Hekmah’ has indeed attained a great blessing." 2:269


The words "whoever He pleases" in this verse indicate that God bestows ‘Al-Hekmah’ upon any of the believers and not just His messengers. IF WE ASSUME THAT ‘AL-HEKMAH’ MEANS THE SUNNA WE WOULD HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT ANY ORDINARY BELIEVER MAY ALSO HAVE HIS OWN PERSONAL SUNNA THAT HAS TO BE FOLLOWED BY OTHER BELIEVERS! This of course is not the case. The verse would instead make full sense if we think of ‘Al-Hekmah’ in its proper meaning as wisdom.


IF IT IS NOT ENOUGH, THEN MORE MEDICINES FOR YOUR ILL MIND AS FOLLOWS:-


The word (Hekmah) ( wisdom in English,) has been used in 19 verses in the Quran for a total of 20 times (mentioned twice in 2:269) .

(1) In 3:81, God is telling us that all the Prophets are given the book and Hekmah (Wisdom). All these Prophets did not give the hadiths and sunna of Muhammad.


(2) In 3:48 God is using the same term He used for Muhammad, telling us that he gave Jesus, the book and Hekmah (wisdom). This was not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(3) In 2:251, God is telling us that he gave the Hekmah (Wisdom) to David, it is not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(4) In 4:54, God is telling us He gave Abraham's family the scripture and Hekmah (wisdom). This was not muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(5) In 5:110, again God is reminding us that he gave Jesus the book and the Hekmah (wisdom). This was not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(6) In 16:125, God calls on the believers to use wisdom in inviting people to the path of God. Remember that God told us already that we should remind with the QURAN those who reverence His warnings. It is the Quran full of hekmah (wisdom)


(7) In 31:12, God is telling us that He gave Luqman the Hekmah (wisdom), this was not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(8) In 43:63 Jesus is telling his people that he brought them the Hekmah (wisdom). This was not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(9) The Quran is described as the book of hekmah (wisdom) by God Almighty. See 3:58, 10:1, 31:2, 36:3, 43:4, ...


In Sura 17, we are given a clear demonstration of the word ‘Al-Hekmah’ as being the ability to differentiate between right and wrong and the wisdom to choose what is right. If we read the verses from 22 to 39, we find God commanding us not to worship except Him, to honor our parents, to give due alms to our relatives, the needy, the poor, and the traveling alien but without being extravagant or stingy, not to kill our children for fear of poverty, not to commit adultery, nor to abuse the orphan’s money, to trade equitably and fairly, to verify everything before following it blindly and not to act vainly. After such valuable advice God informs us that these virtues are indeed what wisdom is all about.


In that sense ‘Al-Hekmah’ is not a book of ‘hadith’ (sayings) of one single person but instead a blessing that God may bestow on any of His servants.


Some people question the wisdom of God why did He choose to mention the book and the Hekmah if both are the same. First questioning the wisdom of God is equal to disbelief. Second, if you are to understand the Quran you would know what God means by the word Hekma, it is well explained in 17:39. It is a common practice in the Arabic language to emphasize part of the whole by mentioning that part after the whole.
For example if you give some one a book that you want him to read and want to get his attention to chapter 7 for example, you would say read this book and chapter 7. This does not mean Chapter 7 is different than the book but you want to emphasize that particular part. You want him to read the book and pay special attention to chapter 7.


In 2:238, God is telling the believers, "You shall observe the Contact Prayers, and the middle prayer and devote yourself totally to God." In this verse God wants to emphasize the middle prayer. The middle prayer is not something different from the rest of the prayers. And so is the word hekmah (Wisdom) is a part of, and not a separate part, of the Quran. God is emphasizing the Hekmah (wisdom) included in his books. That is what 17:39 is explaining.


In brief the word Hekmah, in 2:129 and others do NOT refer to the hadiths and sunna of Muhammad, it is the wisdom included in the Quran. When God ordered the Prophet's wives to mention what is recited in their homes of the book and wisdom (33:34), He means to emphasize the need to mentions the wisdom , that is explained in 17:39. It means to mention the Quran and especially the wisdom coming in the Quran.


At last, I can’t guide you brother, Only Allah can, if you wish to guide.

Samsher.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Friday, October 14, 2011  -  3:55 PM Reply with quote
quote:

.........Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ denote one thing and not two. The following single verse is enough to prove that;

"Remember God’s blessings upon you, and what He sent down to you of the ‘Al-Kitab’ and ‘Al-Hikmah’ to enlighten you 'bihi' (with it)." 2:231.........Samsher.


وَإِذَا طَلَّقْتُمُ النَّسَاء فَبَلَغْنَ أَجَلَهُنَّ فَأَمْسِكُوهُنَّ بِمَعْرُوفٍ أَوْ سَرِّحُوهُنَّ بِمَعْرُوفٍ وَلاَ تُمْسِكُوهُنَّ ضِرَارًا لَّتَعْتَدُواْ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَقَدْ ظَلَمَ نَفْسَهُ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُوَاْ آيَاتِ اللّهِ هُزُوًا وَاذْكُرُواْ نِعْمَتَ اللّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَمَا أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِّنَ الْكِتَابِ وَالْحِكْمَةِ يَعِظُكُم بِهِ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ (2:231)


2:231 (Y. Ali) When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that; He wrongs his own soul. Do not treat Allah's Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah's favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things

Samsher, the Catholic says 3=1 and you say 2=1. Anyone with a little common sense can read two different things mentioned in that Verse.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, October 15, 2011  -  3:02 PM Reply with quote
quote:


(1) In 3:81, God is telling us that all the Prophets are given the book and Hekmah (Wisdom). All these Prophets did not give the hadiths and sunna of Muhammad.


(2) In 3:48 God is using the same term He used for Muhammad, telling us that he gave Jesus, the book and Hekmah (wisdom). This was not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(3) In 2:251, God is telling us that he gave the Hekmah (Wisdom) to David, it is not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(4) In 4:54, God is telling us He gave Abraham's family the scripture and Hekmah (wisdom). This was not muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(5) In 5:110, again God is reminding us that he gave Jesus the book and the Hekmah (wisdom). This was not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.

Samsher.
Sure. All the Prophets were given the two things. The Book and Wisdom. The Arabic word sunnah lexically means "road" or "practice." In the language of the Prophet and the Companions it denotes the whole of licit [lawful] practices followed in the Religion [dîn], particularly the pristine (hanîf) path of Prophets, whether pertaining to belief, religious and social practice, or ethics generally speaking. Thus the Sunnah of other Prophets (May Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all) cannot be called Sunnah of Muhamed Sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam.
aboosait

INDIA
Posted - Saturday, October 15, 2011  -  3:14 PM Reply with quote
quote:



At last, I can’t guide you brother, Only Allah can, if you wish to guide.

Samsher.
Who is seeking guidance from a disbeliever of Hadith and a person who does not accept Mohammed Sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam as the seal of Prophets?

Allah says, (interpretation meaning):
"Verily, you (O Muhammad) guide not whom you like, but Allaah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided" [al-Qasas 28:56]

Allaah guides whomsoever He wills and sends astray whomsoever He wills. He has told us that He guides those who obey Him and turn to Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

While as for those who accept guidance, He increases their guidance and bestows o n them their piety ‌[Muhammad 47:17]

But whoever disobeys Allaah and turns away from Him, Allaah will not guide him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

Truly, Allaah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever [al-Zumar 39:3]


Edited by: aboosait on Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:16 PM
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Monday, October 17, 2011  -  5:58 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:

.........Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ denote one thing and not two. The following single verse is enough to prove that;

"Remember God’s blessings upon you, and what He sent down to you of the ‘Al-Kitab’ and ‘Al-Hikmah’ to enlighten you 'bihi' (with it)." 2:231.........Samsher.


وَإِذَا طَلَّقْتُمُ النَّسَاء فَبَلَغْنَ أَجَلَهُنَّ فَأَمْسِكُوهُنَّ بِمَعْرُوفٍ أَوْ سَرِّحُوهُنَّ بِمَعْرُوفٍ وَلاَ تُمْسِكُوهُنَّ ضِرَارًا لَّتَعْتَدُواْ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَقَدْ ظَلَمَ نَفْسَهُ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُوَاْ آيَاتِ اللّهِ هُزُوًا وَاذْكُرُواْ نِعْمَتَ اللّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَمَا أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِّنَ الْكِتَابِ وَالْحِكْمَةِ يَعِظُكُم بِهِ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ (2:231)


2:231 (Y. Ali) When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that; He wrongs his own soul. Do not treat Allah's Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah's favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things

Samsher, the Catholic says 3=1 and you say 2=1. Anyone with a little common sense can read two different things mentioned in that Verse.


Reply :- وَإِذَا طَلَّقْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ فَبَلَغْنَ أَجَلَهُنَّ فَأَمْسِكُوهُنَّ بِمَعْرُوفٍ أَوْ سَرِّحُوهُنَّ بِمَعْرُوفٍ ۚ وَلَا تُمْسِكُوهُنَّ ضِرَارًا لِّتَعْتَدُوا ۚ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَٰلِكَ فَقَدْ ظَلَمَ نَفْسَهُ ۚ وَلَا تَتَّخِذُوا آيَاتِ اللَّهِ هُزُوًا ۚ وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَمَا أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكُم مِّنَ الْكِتَابِ وَالْحِكْمَةِ يَعِظُكُم بِهِ ۚ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

Wa-itha tallaqtumu alnnisaa fabalaghna ajalahunna faamsikoohunna bimaAAroofin aw sarrihoohunna bimaAAroofin wala tumsikoohunna diraran litaAAtadoo waman yafAAal thalika faqad thalama nafsahu wala tattakhithoo ayati Allahi huzuwan waothkuroo niAAmata Allahi AAalaykum wama anzala AAalaykum mina alkitabi waalhikmati yaAAithukum bihi waittaqoo Allaha waiAAlamoo anna Allaha bikulli shay-in AAaleemun

[ Ahmed Ali ]:- And if you divorced the women, so they reached their term/time, so hold/grasp them (F) with kindness/generosity or divorce/release them (F) with kindness/generosity , and do not hold/grasp them (F) harming to transgress/violate, and who makes/does that, so he had caused injustice/oppression (to) himself. And do not take God's verses/evidences mockingly , and mention/remember God's blessing on you, and what He descended on you from The Book and the wisdom , He advises/warns you with it, and fear and obey God, and know that God (is) with every thing knowledgeable.

brother,I can't make the blind see.
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Monday, October 17, 2011  -  6:21 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:


(1) In 3:81, God is telling us that all the Prophets are given the book and Hekmah (Wisdom). All these Prophets did not give the hadiths and sunna of Muhammad.


(2) In 3:48 God is using the same term He used for Muhammad, telling us that he gave Jesus, the book and Hekmah (wisdom). This was not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(3) In 2:251, God is telling us that he gave the Hekmah (Wisdom) to David, it is not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(4) In 4:54, God is telling us He gave Abraham's family the scripture and Hekmah (wisdom). This was not muhammed's hadiths and sunna.


(5) In 5:110, again God is reminding us that he gave Jesus the book and the Hekmah (wisdom). This was not Muhammed's hadiths and sunna.

Samsher.
Sure. All the Prophets were given the two things. The Book and Wisdom. The Arabic word sunnah lexically means "road" or "practice." In the language of the Prophet and the Companions it denotes the whole of licit [lawful] practices followed in the Religion [dîn], particularly the pristine (hanîf) path of Prophets, whether pertaining to belief, religious and social practice, or ethics generally speaking. Thus the Sunnah of other Prophets (May Allah's peace and blessings be upon them all) cannot be called Sunnah of Muhamed Sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam.


Reply:- Prophets were given "The Book", which is also contained with the'Wisdom'. Thus, the 'Book" and 'Wisdom' are not two separate things,but "ONE"(2:231)

Nowher Qur'an mentions 'sunnah of Muhammad' - thus, this idea is non-quaranic.
samsher

INDIA
Posted - Monday, October 17, 2011  -  6:34 AM Reply with quote
quote:

quote:



At last, I can’t guide you brother, Only Allah can, if you wish to guide.

Samsher.
Who is seeking guidance from a disbeliever of Hadith and a person who does not accept Mohammed Sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam as the seal of Prophets?

Allah says, (interpretation meaning):
"Verily, you (O Muhammad) guide not whom you like, but Allaah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided" [al-Qasas 28:56]

Allaah guides whomsoever He wills and sends astray whomsoever He wills. He has told us that He guides those who obey Him and turn to Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

While as for those who accept guidance, He increases their guidance and bestows o n them their piety ‌[Muhammad 47:17]

But whoever disobeys Allaah and turns away from Him, Allaah will not guide him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

Truly, Allaah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever [al-Zumar 39:3]


Edited by: aboosait on Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:16 PM



Quote:- Who is seeking guidance from a disbeliever of Hadith and a person who does not accept Mohammed Sallallahu 'alaihiwasallam as the seal of Prophets?

Reply:- yes, It is right that I am a disbeliever of man-made garbage, that did not authorize by Allah as source of Islam, but not like you who disbelieves “Qur’an”.

2ndly, I never told anywher that Muhammad was not the Seal of Prophet. I only said that 'Muhammed was not the last messenger' and Qur'an supports this.

You rightly quoted here that "Verily, you (O Muhammad) guide not whom you like, but Allaah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided" [al-Qasas 28:56]

Those who do not believe that Qur’an is Complete, fully detailed, is a deaf and dumb
[41:1] H. M.
[41:2] A revelation from the Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
[41:3] A scripture whose verses provide the complete details, in an Arabic Quran, for people who know.
[41:4] A bearer of good news, as well as a warner. However, most of them turn away; they do not hear.
[41:5] They said, "Our minds are made up, our ears are deaf to your message, and a barrier separates us from you. Do what you want, and so will we."
I can’t make the deaf her…………………
[43:40] Can you make the deaf hear; can you make the blind see, or those who are far astray?
[2:170] When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
[2:171] The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.

Ask yourself brother.

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