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ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, September 19, 2005  -  9:15 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Salam,
I told in this forum earlier, how the original Qur’an was destroyed. Please read my earlier posts regarding the subject.
Do you really think that the original Qur’an which Prophet Muhammad had written by his own hand or dictated is existing now? If yes, please tell me where can we found this original Qur’an.
Samsher

Well Brother it's V V hard to Find that where in this LONG discussion U've Described your Views on this topic BUT I've more than 100% believe in that the Quran which U & I have in our hands is the Original & Same QURAAN that was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) & He Gave it to His Companions & By Generation to Generation Transmission it is Now in our Hands without ANY smallest possible change.If U want to know OUR point of View in Detail U'll have to go thru our Course "History of the Quran".
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, September 19, 2005  -  12:27 PM Reply with quote
Salam,

Quote:- BUT I've more than 100% believe in that the Quran which U & I have in our hands is the Original & Same QURAAN.

>>> You have the right to believe it.

[2:256] “There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way….”

Mathematical discovery of the Nobel Qur’an i.e. Code-19 of the Qur’an proved that the verses 128 & 129 of Sura 9 were added to the Qur’an, whether you believe or not.

Samsher.
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, September 20, 2005  -  7:32 AM Reply with quote
w salam

Well that's NOT a Discovery & Quran DOES NOT HAVE ANY CODE, so their Claim is TOTALLY WRONG. The said verses were PART of the Quran & the Surah from the DAY one. Never believe in Rumours plz
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, September 22, 2005  -  1:04 PM Reply with quote
Salam,

Brother it is your thinking. I had already shown you the history how the verses 128-129 of Sura 9 were added in the original Quran and also shown the literal defect of these verses, on the basis of which it can definitely be said that these verses are not the part of original Qur’an.

The important word that occurs in the false Verses 9:128-129 is the word "Raheem" (Merciful). THIS WORD IS USED IN THE QURAN EXCLUSIVELY AS A NAME OF GOD. According to 7:188, 10:49, and 72:21 the Prophet did not possess any power of mercy.

Mathematical Miracle of the Qur’an i.e. Code-19 has also proved scientifically that these verses are not the part of Qur’an. But you brother don’t want to agree with me. No probleme. It is your choice.

& Please ask your knowledgeable Scholars & Researchers why they utter their daily contact prayer(salat)by maintaining in different tones e.g. Noon & Asr Prayer maintaining in total silence, First part of Evening & Night prayer maintaining in moderate tone and 2nd parts of these salat maintaining in total silence, whereas Qur’an says we should utter our salat prayer maintaining in MODERATE TONE? If your knowledgeable Scholars & Researchers will able to answer this only one question properly (in fact there are numerous questions in this type) then I shall In-Sha-Allah reconsider your idea.

Samsher Ali


Edited by: ibrahim on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:06 AM
oosman

USA
Posted - Thursday, September 22, 2005  -  3:56 PM Reply with quote
Samsher said >> Mathematical discovery of the Nobel Qur’an i.e. Code-19 of the Qur’an proved that the verses 128 & 129 of Sura 9 were added to the Qur’an, whether you believe or not.

Quran majeed claims that it is a book well guarded and preserved. It is its own claim that it cannot be changed.

Let us assume that the code-19 theory is true,
then it implies all verses except 128, 129 are true,
which also means verses about Quran being unchangeable must be true.

But that is a contradiction of the code-19 theory then! Code-19 theory says the verses that say Quran cannot be changed are true, and code-19 theory also says 2 verses were added to it later! That is a contradiction! Therefore code-19 theory is false.
Asim2

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, September 22, 2005  -  4:31 PM Reply with quote
What do you mean code 19 ?

Does the Qur'an refer to code-19 ?
Or
Do Authentic Hadith refer to it ?

If this code 19 , or mathematic/numerical etc.. stuff was so important , why wasn't it referred in The Qur'an or the authentic Hadith. And no one today has the right to invent a new bid'at like this. It is your opinion and nothing more. Ascribing these numbers? looks like a future addition not present at the times of our Noble Prophet (ALLAH's Mercy, Blessings and peace be upon him).

How can you be sure about this mathematical stuff because ALLAH has sent down the Qur'an . And if anything was that important it should have been explained via the Qur'an or the Sunnah or the authentic Ahadith.

And regarding this Qur'an and Sunnah forum in general, I would suggest that all the relevant Ayaat of the Qur'an should be analyzed together . i.e.

Use you reasoning to come to a correct interpretation
and
DON'T use a few Ayaat on this issue or incomplete Ayaat quotations as evidence to prove your point.

Our approach must be to find the accurate facts and not just defending our opinion or our favourite scholar's opinion by quoting selected Ayaat . All Ayaat on a particular topic should be analyzed, moreover the important words should be studied and their occurences, and roots should be studied. Situation in which the revelation was received is also helpful.
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, September 23, 2005  -  7:05 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Salam,
>>> Please ask your knowledgeable Scholars & Researchers why they utter their daily contact prayer(salat)by maintaining in different tones e.g. Noon & Asr Prayer maintaining in total silence, First part of Evening & Night prayer maintaining in moderate tone and 2nd parts of these salat maintaining in total silence, whereas Qur’an says we should utter our salat prayer maintaining in MODERATE TONE? If your knowledgeable Scholars & Researchers will able to answer this only one question properly (in fact there are numerous questions in this type) then I shall In-Sha-Allah reconsider your idea.
Samsher Ali
w salaam Brother,
For the Answer of Your Question, I do not need to Go to our Scholars as I hope that I myself (only a Research Asstt.) will be able to Satisfy you provided you are Sincerely trying to understand my point of View.
Before I give you the Answer of your Question, you should Note that According to Us there are TWO equal sources of Isalm; Quran & Sunnah. There is NO need to Define Quran as Everyone KNOWS it BUT plz very Carefully NOTE that what is SUNNAH? It is the Practicle Part of Islam & It is Very well Known Since Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh). It has Reached us with the SAME "Twatur & Ijmaa" of Muslim Ummah as The Quran has. So because of THIS We Do NOT need to see them in Quran OR to find any Order in Quran about them. Never the less STILL Quran has mentioned many of them in it & has given some instructions about them. There are Many things of the Religion that Fall in this Category & Salat is One of them.[If you are Interested in the Details of SUNNAH then plz Join our SHORT Course "Understanding the Sunnah"]
In the Sunnah of Salat this Tradition has been Established That the Zuhar & Asar Prayers will be Offered with maintaining silence While other THREE will be Offered with maintaining moderate tone in First parts and with silence in 2nd parts.
I hope this helps.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, September 23, 2005  -  12:05 PM Reply with quote
Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between(17:110)

Ibne Abbas said that in Makkah Prophet (pbuh) and Sahabas used to recite verses loudly during Salat. Kuffar-e-Makkah used to makes noises and some times used bad language. So the order came from Allah that don’t recite too loudly so the Kuffar-e-Makkah gathered there nor too slow that own companions cannot heard it. This instruction was only for that particular situation. When the situation changed in Madina so this order was no more required.If Muslims ever faces the situation like Makkah, so they should follow the same order.
(Tafheem-ul-Quran) by Molana Maudoodi
For urdu please visit the folloing link.

http://www.tafheemulquran.org/Tafhim_u/017/surah_all.htm
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Friday, September 23, 2005  -  12:16 PM Reply with quote
Salam brother,
Quote:- Before I give you the Answer of your Question, you should Note that According to Us there are TWO equal sources of Isalm; Quran & Sunnah.
>>> Brother, may be it is according to you & your team but not according to us. However, could you please tell me which hadith should we believe? Is it Almighty Allah’s or hadith of people like you? Please see;
[6:114] SHALL I SEEK OTHER THAN GOD AS A SOURCE OF LAW, when He has revealed to you THIS BOOK (i.e.Qur’an) fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
[18:27] You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, AND YOU SHALL NOT FIND ANY OTHER SOURCE BESIDE IT.

Do you know what does mean to say OTHER THAN GOD AS A SOURCE OF LAW or YOU SHALL NOT FIND ANY OTHER SOURCE BESIDE IT(i.e. Qur’an)? Although I discussed regarding this matter several times in this forum. No need here to further discuss on the same point.
Quote:- BUT plz very Carefully NOTE that what is SUNNAH?
>>> What is sunnah, brother? Do you believe that Almighty Allah said His Prophet to do one thing and Prophet had done reverse?
[17:110] " ……………….You shall not utter your Contact Prayers (Salat) too loudly, nor secretly; use a moderate tone”.
Do you think that prophet heard the above commandment of Allah very carefully and then done the job according his own whims(not according to the above commandment)?

You can think this but not mine.

Moreover, Has there any mention of Prophet’s Sunnah in the Nobel Qur’an? If yes, then please show me only one reference from the Qur’an.
Quote:- It is the Practical Part of Islam & It is Very well Known Since Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh).
>>> Waoooo… you said it is the practical part of Islam yet we can’t find this (your so called practical part of Islam i.e. men-made sunnah) in the Qur’an, what a blaspheme!!!! Brother, we can find TRUE ISLAM ONLY IN THE NOBEL QUR’AN not in any other book.
Quote:- It has Reached us with the SAME "Twatur & Ijmaa" of Muslim Ummah as The Quran has.
>>> Wrong understanding brother. Revelation, which Prophet Muhammed received, had already written by him or by the revelation writers during his lifetime. But hadith(because men-made sunnah can only be found in the men-made hadith book), which we posses, had not written by the Prophet Muhammad during his lifetime. Hadith were written first long long after his death & Prophet Muhammad was innocent about these (men-made hadith & sunnah). Moreover, Almighty Allah does not permit us to take another book/source besides Qur’an as religious source of Islam.
Quote:- Nevertheless STILL Quran has mentioned many of them in it & has given some instructions about them.
>>>> Where brother, could you please show me any one instruction in the Nobel Qur’an?
Quote:- There are Many things of the Religion that Fall in this Category & Salat is One of them.
>>>> Please tell me where Qur’an says so.
Quote:- [If you are Interested in the Details of SUNNAH then plz Join our SHORT Course "Understanding the Sunnah"]
>>> First you please show me where did you find men-made Sunnah which is another source of Islam beside Qur’an. We don’t require to understand the men-made Sunnah which is adverse to the Qur’an. We require to understand the Islam from the Qur’an brother.
Quote:- In the Sunnah of Salat this Tradition has been Established That the Zuhar & Asar Prayers will be Offered with maintaining silence While other THREE will be Offered with maintaining moderate tone in First parts and with silence in 2nd parts.
>>> Who established these rules, some long bearded simple minded men? we should not believe them.
[9:31] THEY HAVE SET UP THEIR RELIGIOUS LEADERS AND SCHOLARS AS LORDS, INSTEAD OF GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. THEY WERE ALL COMMANDED TO WORSHIP ONLY ONE GOD. THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT HE. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.
Do you get the message of the above verse? I don’t want to take them(religious leaders and scholars) as my lords. My Lord is only one God.
I hope this will sufficient for your, if not then you do as you wish.

Salam,
Samsher Ali


Edited by: ibrahim on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:20 AM
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, September 27, 2005  -  5:40 AM Reply with quote
w salam Brother Samsher Ali

Dear, I want to Talk to you about this matter in Detail BUT I'm NOT good in English. Never the Less I would try my best to Clear ONE point here.

You & People Like You want to Follow ONLY & ONLY the Holy Quran. Can I ask WHY? You Know that The Quran was Revealed to Muhammad (pbuh) Not to you OR me. This Same Prohet was given another thing by his LORD which is called SUNNAH. So first CORRECT your Words That this is NOT man-made Sunnah BUT it is GOD-GIVEN Sunnah. Our Prophet Gave his Ummah TWO things; Quran & Sunnah ( Not One Thing). You must be Clare that Sunnah does not mean HADITH. Is my point of View is CLEAR? if Not then we should CLEAR it at first. Plz also note that this is the Point of VIEW of WHOLE Muslim Ummah except some people like You. Would you plz Explain to us that WHY you people are HOLDING a Different point of View & what are your BASIS???

Brother, If you are seriously in the MOOD of understanding & NOT discussing Just for the Sake of Discussion THEN we should ONLY Discuss this Point Bcoz all other things Comes AFTER it. I do hope the SAME from your Side.

Regards
Note: U r Habitual of v LONG post BUT I wud REQUEST that plz BE as SHORT as U can. It'll SAVE OUR time as well the time of our Readers. Thanks in Advance.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, September 28, 2005  -  11:03 AM Reply with quote
Salam,
What do you mean code 19 ?Does the Qur'an refer to code-19 ?
>>> Please read my reply above. The Quran is in the heart of those who are blessed with knowledge (29.49). It is a numerically structured book (Kitabun Marqum), which is witnessed by those close to God (83.20,21), and not recognized by the rejecters (83.9,10). Even if idol worshipers add "verses" to the Quran, those who "have received knowledge" will be able to recognize God’s revelation.
[83:18] Indeed, the book of the righteous will be in `Elleyyeen.
[83:19] Do you know what `Elleyyeen is?
[83:20] A numerically structured book.
[83:21] To be witnessed by those close to Me.
If you add or amalgamate a cheap element, say copper, to a golden ring, an expert who knows the property of the prime element gold, will be able to expose the counterfeit. The expert does not need to rely on the testimony of sellers who bring the gold to him. He will rely on the infallible testimony of the gold it-self. He will test and examine the physical properties of the matter and make his decision. Similarly, a believer who is blessed by God to know the mathematical structure of the Quran, which is based on the prime number nineteen, can easily distinguish the false from the genuine. In this sense, both the golden ring and the Quran are preserved from any falsehood. This is why The Most High emphasizes Himself in preserving the Quran. The preservation of the Quran is unique and extraordinary! It shares this feature with God’s signs (ayaat) in the nature ! Praise be to God, the Possessor of Infinite Bounties.
Quote:- If this code 19 , or mathematic/numerical etc.. stuff was so important , why wasn't it referred in The Qur'an.
>>> Who said to you this brother, that Code-19 was not referred in the Qur’an? The Miracle of the Qur’an had remained within the Qur’an from the first day of Its completion and only requires to be discovered.
Quote:- And no one today has the right to invent a new bid'at like this.
>>> Discovery of Mathematical Miracle of Qur’an is not bid’at because it remained within the Qur’an from the very fist day of Its completion. Rather, Your hadith & men-made Sunnah are bid’at, because these things were invented long after the completion of Qur’an & Islam.
Quote:- How can you be sure about this mathematical stuff because ALLAH has sent down the Qur'an . And if anything was that important it should have been explained via the Qur'an.
>>> Don’t need to be worried, brother. Mathematical Miracle explained by Almighty Allah via Qur’an, which is witnessed by those who close to God 83:20-21 and not recognized by the rejecters.
Quote:- And regarding this Qur'an and Sunnah forum in general, I would suggest that all the relevant Ayaat of the Qur'an should be analyzed together . i.e. Use you reasoning to come to a correct interpretation and DON'T use a few Ayaat on this issue or incomplete Ayaat quotations as evidence to prove your point.
>>>But brother, you did not even apply this theory for your own life. If you read the verse 15:9 alongwith 85:21-22, you will definitely see that Almighty Allah did not promise to preserve the Mos-haf of Qur’an
Quote:- Our approach must be to find the accurate facts and not just defending our opinion or our favourite scholar's opinion by quoting selected Ayaat .
>>>But, brother you have been doing exactly this since long by hook or by crook. I told several times in this forum that we should follow only Qur’an as our only religious source of Islam and in support of my opinion I quoted several verse from the Qur’an to prove it, but you and your team did not accept this.
2ndly, you & your team always say that we should accept men-made hadith & sunnah as religious source of Islam besides Qur’an, but unable to prove yours statement from the Qur’an, even you could not give a single reference from the Qur’an in support of your opinion.
Conclusion:
I told several times in this forum that the subject of the debate, first started between me & Mr. Tariq Hashmi, was whether we should accept the only Qur’an as religious source of Islam or not. Almighty Allah clearly told in the Qur’an that we should not accept any other source as source of Islam besides IT(i.e Qur’an).
Regarding Code-19 theory of the Qur’an, this is another subject and completely different from the 1st one. To understand the Code-19 theory you have to remain some qualification/knowledge about numerology and it is not possible for everyone to gain this. But to know the simple command of Almighty Allah you do not require any qualification.
Generally speaking the Quran contains five types of verses:
1- Law giving:
These are the verses that include all the rituals, the prohibitions, and the laws of God.
2 - Warning:
These are the verses that warn against disobeying God. These verses usually include an assigned punishment.
3- Narrative:
Like the verses that relate the stories of previous prophets....etc.
4.-Informative:
These can also be narrative of previous people or could also be scientifically informative (e.g. verses that relate to the creation of the universe, geology or embryology ...etc).
5-Reflective:
Like the verses that speak of matters related to the creation of the universe, or those that contain parables.....etc.
It is the first two types of verses that we will be held accountable to on judgment day. Thus no one will be thrown into hell for not knowing that the number of heavens is seven as in (Sura 2, verse 29), or for not knowing that God supported Moses with nine miracles as in (Sura 17, verse 101), or that the tribe of Saleh was called Thamoud as in (Sura 11, verse 61). On the other hand, we will all be held accountable if we should give false testimony, deceive orphans of their money or associate any name with the Name of God.
The Quran was not only revealed for the intellectuals or the scholars, but also for the unlearned and simple folk who may not be as clever. For that specific reason, and because God is the Most Fair, He deliberately made sure that these law giving verses in particular, and by which we will be held accountable to, are very clear and straightforward.
God distinguishes between the clear straightforward verses (the law giving in particular) and between other verses which may interpreted in more than one sense:
“He sent down to you this scripture, containing authoritative verses, which constitute the essence of the scripture, as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this-all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.” 3:7
Moreover, it is because God's justice and fairness that the law giving verses are made very clear and straight-forward. Thus no injustices will be inflicted on anyone. This is made quite clear in the Quran in numerous verses such as :
“God does not inflict an atom’s weight of injustice.” 4:40
An example of the law giving verses that are quite straightforward is the verse that specifies the steps of ablution:
“O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall wash your faces, wash your arms to the elbows, wipe your heads and wash your feet to the ankles.” 5:6
This simple order from God is put in such simple and direct words that it can hardly be expressed in simpler or more direct words.
[6:70] You shall disregard those who take their religion in vain, as if it is a social function, and are totally absorbed in this worldly life. REMIND WITH THIS (QURAN), LEST A SOUL MAY SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF ITS EVIL EARNINGS. …………………….”
[50:45] We are fully aware of everything they utter, while you have no power over them. Therefore, REMIND WITH THIS QURAN, THOSE WHO REVERENCE MY WARNINGS.
[7:193] When you invite them to the guidance, they do not follow you. Thus, it is the same for them whether you invite them, or remain silent.
O.K. brother. I have said a lot…….. in this subject. I don’t want to proceed further. It is your choice either you accept this or not. But I will never accept your thought/theory that we should take men made hadith & sunnah as 2nd source of Islam besides Qur’an, because does not permit me to do so. So you do your own job and I am doing my job.

Khuda Hafiz,
Samsher


Edited by: ibrahim on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:31 AM
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, September 28, 2005  -  11:07 AM Reply with quote
Salam,
Quote:- You should Note that According to Us there are TWO equal sources of Isalm; Quran & Sunnah.
>>> The Qur’an says that the source of Islam is only one i.e. the Nobel Qur’an itself, but you say two! Which hadith should we believe brother, yours or Almighty Allaha’s?
[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
[18:27] You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. NOTHING SHALL ABROGATE HIS WORDS, AND YOU SHALL NOT FIND ANY OTHER SOURCE BESIDE IT.
[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
[6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.
Quote:- BUT plz very Carefully NOTE that what is SUNNAH?
>>> What is sunnah brothr? Is it that God commands Prophet Muhammad to do one thing and Prophet had done the reverse as you explained the verse 17:110?
Quote:- It is the Practicle Part of Islam & It is Very well Known Since Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh).
>>>You said that it is practical part of Islam but this(practical part of Islam) does not remain within the Qur’an!! Very surprising matter!
Quote:- So because of THIS We Do NOT need to see them in Quran OR to find any Order in Quran about them.
>>> We have to bound to follow and should follow only the Qur’an. The rules and regulations of Islam which are not instituted by the Qur’an are not Islamic and full of conjecture.
[4:82] Why do they not study the Quran carefully? If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it numerous contradictions.
Quote:-In the Sunnah of Salat this Tradition has been Established That the Zuhar & Asar Prayers will be Offered with maintaining silence While other THREE will be Offered with maintaining moderate tone in First parts and with silence in 2nd parts.
>>> Who established this brother? Is it your scholaras & religious leaders?
[42:21] THEY FOLLOW IDOLS WHO DECREE FOR THEM RELIGIOUS LAWS NEVER AUTHORIZED BY GOD. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.
[9:31] THEY HAVE SET UP THEIR RELIGIOUS LEADERS AND SCHOLARS AS LORDS, INSTEAD OF GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.

Samsher Ali


Edited by: ibrahim on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 8:38 AM
ibrahim

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, September 29, 2005  -  5:38 AM Reply with quote
W salam Brother BUT
You Have NOT answered MY Last Post (Date 27 Sep)
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Friday, September 30, 2005  -  12:04 PM Reply with quote
Dear brother,
Quote:- You & People Like You want to Follow ONLY & ONLY the Holy Quran. Can I ask WHY?
>>>> Because Almighty Allah says to us only to do this. Brother, by raising this question you proved that you follow other source besides Qur’an as religious source if Islam. So let us see what Qur’an says about yourself;
[5:44] “Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the disbelievers”.
[5:45] “Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the unjust”.
[5:47] “Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked”.
Quote:- This Same Prohet was given another thing by his LORD which is called SUNNAH.
>>> From where did you get this information? Please give me only one reference from the Qur’an in support of your opinion. I think it is your whims. May Allah forgive me, why do you blame our beloved Prophet knowingly?
Quote:- So first CORRECT your Words That this is NOT man-made Sunnah BUT it is GOD-GIVEN Sunnah.
>>> I am correct, but you should correct your statement brother, that this is men-made sunnah.
Quote:- Our Prophet Gave his Ummah TWO things; Quran & Sunnah ( Not One Thing).
>>> Our Prophet gave us only one thing i.e. Qur’an, not two things as you claimed.
[69:43-47] A revelation from the Lord of the universe. HAD HE UTTERED ANY OTHER TEACHINGS. We would have punished him. We would have stopped the revelations to him. None of you could have helped him.
[50:45] We are fully aware of everything they utter, while you have no power over them. Therefore, REMIND WITH THIS QURAN, those who reverence My warnings.
[6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you THAT THIS QURAN HAS BEEN INSPIRED TO ME, TO PREACH IT TO YOU AND WHOMEVER IT REACHES. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."
[18:27] You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, AND YOU SHALL NOT FIND ANY OTHER SOURCE BESIDE IT.
[6:51] “AND PREACH WITH THIS (QURAN) TO THOSE WHO REVERENCE THE SUMMONING BEFORE THEIR LORD”
[6:70] You shall disregard those who take their religion in vain, as if it is a social function, and are totally absorbed in this worldly life. REMIND WITH THIS (QURAN), LEST A SOUL MAY SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF ITS EVIL EARNINGS”.
Prophet Muhammad’s sunnah was only the Qur’an, because he practised only Qur’an. So we should follow and practice only Qur’an and in this way we can follow his sunnah. By the way you cannot find anywhere in the Qur’an saying as ‘Muhammad’s sunnah’.
Quote:- You must be Clare that Sunnah does not mean HADITH.
>>> How could you know about the men-made sunnah? Obviously not from the Qur’an, then from what source you knew this?
[68:37-41] ‘DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER BOOK TO UPHOLD? IN IT, DO YOU FIND ANYTHING YOU WANT? OR, HAVE YOU RECEIVED SOLEMN ASSURANCES FROM US THAT GRANT YOU WHATEVER YOU WISH ON THE DAY OF RESURRECTION? Ask them, "Who guarantees this for you?" Do they have idols? Let their idols help them, if they are truthful’.
The word hadith means `news,' `story' or `message', while the word sunna means `law,' `system,' `custom' or `behavior.' In the hadith literature, the word hadith carries the meaning of a report of an alleged saying or action of Prophet Muhammad. Therefore, although sunna originally refers to the customary behavior of the Prophet, in the hadith literature both the terms sunna and hadith carry a similar meaning.
Is my point of View is CLEAR?
Quote;- Plz also note that this is the Point of VIEW of WHOLE Muslim Ummah except some people like You.
>>> This should not be the business of believers what whole Mohammadan do. What Qur’an says should be our business and Qur’an says we should do act according to IT.
[6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.
[12:103] Most people, no matter what you do, will not believe.
[12:106] The majority of those who believe in GOD do not do so without committing idol worship.
[2:170] When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
Quote:- Would you plz Explain to us that WHY you people are HOLDING a Different point of View & what are your BASIS???
>>>If any idol worshipper asks to any Muslim ‘why you people don’t worship the idols’? Brother, what should be the reply of that Muslim? We are holding only Qur’an. We are not holding a different point of view rather you & your team.
My religious basis is only one source i.e the Qur’an(only one consistent source). But you follow another source(disputing partners) besides Qur’an as religious source of Islam. So there should be and must be difference between your thinking and our thinking.
[39:29] GOD cites the example of a man who deals with DISPUTING PARTNERS (Hadith), compared to a man who deals WITH ONLY ONE CONSISTENT SOURCE (Quran). Are they the same? Praise be to GOD; most of them do not know.
Quote: U r Habitual of v LONG post BUT I wud REQUEST that plz BE as SHORT as U can. It'll SAVE OUR time as well the time of our Readers.
>>> Generally I explain my point of view according to needs. So brother, If you have no time to read my point of view then don’t read this. I cannot do anything for you brother in this regard. Moreover, you & your team could not even understand my point, although I discussed this in detail.
Conclusion:-
[3:61] If anyone argues with you, despite the knowledge you have received, then say, "Let us summon our children and your children, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then let us invoke GOD's curse upon the liars."

Samsher Ali.


Edited by: ibrahim on Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:12 AM
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, October 05, 2005  -  10:20 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between(17:110)

Ibne Abbas said that in Makkah Prophet (pbuh) and Sahabas used to recite verses loudly during Salat. Kuffar-e-Makkah used to makes noises and some times used bad language. So the order came from Allah that don’t recite too loudly so the Kuffar-e-Makkah gathered there nor too slow that own companions cannot heard it. This instruction was only for that particular situation. When the situation changed in Madina so this order was no more required.If Muslims ever faces the situation like Makkah, so they should follow the same order.
(Tafheem-ul-Quran) by Molana Maudoodi
For urdu please visit the folloing link.

http://www.tafheemulquran.org/Tafhim_u/017/surah_all.htm

Salam,

People of this forum can easily see/realize what a ridiculous hadis, my brother Usmani, has mentioned above!! Yet he claimed himself that he is a Muslim!!! Whatever may be, I do not want say anything about his claim. I want to say here some words about his mentioned hadis. Please see;

Almighty Allah says in verse 17:110 that we should speak/utter our salat(every salat) in moderate tone. Nowhere He says that we should do this in particular situation. So how could you say that this instruction was only for the particular situation? Is Almighty Allah says so?
2ndly, Where it is said in the Nobel Qur’an that when the Muslims will not face the situation like Makkah, they should speak/utter their salat in different tones as you speak/utter now?
3rdly, if you think that situation is the main consideration point/matter, then why you utter/speak now your daily Fajr Salat(Morning prayer) maintaining in moderate tone? First two unit of Maghrib salat(evening prayer) maintaining in moderate tone and last unit of that salat in maintaining total silence? Same for Esha Salat(Night prayer). You speak/utter First two unit of Esha salat maintaining in moderate tone and last two unit of that salat maintaining in total silence? Why?
4thly, You said “When the situation changed in Madina so this order was no more required”
Is it mentioned in the Qur’an? What an audacity!!! May Allah forgive me.
You blamed Almighty Allah and his Prophet knowingly!!!
[68:37] Do you have another book to uphold?
[68:38] In it, do you find anything you want?
[68:40] Ask them, "Who guarantees this for you?"
[68:41] Do they have idols? Let their idols help them, if they are truthful.
[6:148] The idol worshipers say, "Had GOD willed, we would not practice idolatry, nor would our parents, nor would we prohibit anything." Thus did those before them disbelieve, until they incurred our retribution. Say, "DO YOU HAVE ANY PROVEN KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU CAN SHOW US? YOU FOLLOW NOTHING BUT CONJECTURE; YOU ONLY GUESS."
If one speaks/utters ones daily salat by maintaining in moderate tone then please tell me will it be right or wrong according to your logic?
[42:21] THEY FOLLOW IDOLS WHO DECREE FOR THEM RELIGIOUS LAWS NEVER AUTHORIZED BY GOD. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.

Salam
Samsher.


Edited by: ibrahim on Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:09 AM
aijaz47

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, October 05, 2005  -  8:02 PM Reply with quote
Dear Mr. Shamsher Ali
You wrote and I quote:

"Now there are thousands of copies of the original Quran that do not contain 9.128-129 are circulated and read all around the world. Does this version of the Quran refute the divine promise in verse 15.9?"

This is a very serious claim. Can you give some referances?

Edited by: aijaz47 on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 8:15 PM

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