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Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 23, 2005  -  7:08 AM Reply with quote
Salam
you said……Of course, continue to research, be willing to hear from opposite views but never think yourself as being a kafir or the possibility of being punished when your understanding and logical thinking and reasoning is saying to go one paticular way even if it may be wrong.

Thank you amnew for the valuable post.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 23, 2005  -  1:36 PM Reply with quote
Dear samsher,

Through the research and the work carried out by the ullamahs in the last fourteen hundred years and though my own research I am fully convinced that following Sunnah of our prophet (SWS) is according to Quran.Following is a link of an article in this regards.

http://ccminc.faithweb.com/iqra/articles/authsun/index.html

This article is very help full to understand the Authority of Sunnah explain from Quranic verses.

I am posting some of yours post here, please have look and see what is your opinion about your own self.

Quote By samsher Ali May 19.2005 Page 10

Do you believe he was a messager????, (Rashad Khalifa)


>>> Of course…

Quote By Samsher Ali March 22 ,2005 Page 5

As for "...and Muhammad is His servant and His messenger." this is a statement of absolute fact. Anyone refusing to accept Muhammad as a messenger of God and the seal of His prophets falls outside the pale of Islam. The correct answer to the question 'is Muhammad a messenger of God and the last of the prophets?' is 'with certitude he is!'. It is not part of the confession of faith as dictated by God, but merely a statement of fact.

Quote by Samsher Ali March 11,2005 Page-4

- God promises to preserve the Quran and nothing else:"Absolutely, we have revealed the 'Zhikr' (Quran), and, absolutely, we will preserve it." 15:9

Quote By samsher Ali May 19.2005 Page 10

blue]The verse 9:128-129 were not there in the original Qur’an, which was destroyed some times after the death of Prophet Muhammad. Code 19 of the Qur’an proved that these verses were not the part of Qur’an. Also history says so. Whether you believe or not that is your choice

I only can pray for you that Allah shows you the right Path.

Allah Hafiz
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, May 23, 2005  -  10:35 PM Reply with quote
Dear, Sk Shamshir Ali,

If the concept of “Atee-ur-Rasool” (Obey the messenger) is not clear, we are still waiting for the interpretation of the following Quranic verses, which were already asked but perhaps you have missed.

· Keep us on the right path. THE PATH OF THOSE upon whom you bestowed favours, NOT the path of those upon whom your wrath is (1: 5, 6).

· We have not sent YOU (Mohammad- sws) but the MERCY for the worlds (21: 107)
No doubt God is merciful and His message is a mercy to us. Why not here God is saying Himself or His message the mercy but using the word YOU for the messenger- Mohammad (sws)?
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, May 25, 2005  -  12:20 PM Reply with quote
Salam,

Quote:- If the concept of “Atee-ur-Rasool” (Obey the messenger) is not clear, we are still waiting for the interpretation of the following Quranic verses, which were already asked but perhaps you have missed.

· · Keep us on the right path. THE PATH OF THOSE upon whom you bestowed favours, NOT the path of those upon whom your wrath is (1: 5, 6).

>>> It is not clear what is your question. Please clarify this.

Quote:- We have not sent YOU (Mohammad- sws) but the MERCY for the worlds (21: 107)
No doubt God is merciful and His message is a mercy to us. Why not here God is saying Himself or His message the mercy but using the word YOU for the messenger- Mohammad (sws)?

>>> [19:19] He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."
[19:20] She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste."
[19:21] He said, "Thus said your Lord, `It is easy for Me. We will render him a SIGN for the people, and MERCY from us. This is a predestined matter.' "

The above verses told about Prophet Jesus. Prophet Jesus was also a SIGN and MERCY from GOD for the people. Could you please tell me why God says so?

Now please read the followings;

[17:82] We send down in the Quran HEALING AND MERCY for the believers. At the same time, it only increases the wickedness of the transgressors.

[17:85] They ask you about the revelation. Say, "The revelation comes from my Lord. The knowledge given to you is minute."
[17:86] If we will, we can take back what we revealed to you, then you will find no protector against us.
[17:87] THIS IS BUT MERCY FROM YOUR LORD. His blessings upon you have been great.

[27:76] This Quran settles many issues for the Children of Israel; issues that they are still disputing.
[27:77] And most assuredly, it is a GUIDE AND MERCY for the believers.
[28:85] Surely, the One who decreed the Quran for you will summon you to a predetermined appointment. Say, "My Lord is fully aware of those who uphold the guidance, and those who have gone astray."
[28:86] You never expected this scripture to come your way; but THIS IS A MERCY FROM YOUR LORD. Therefore, you shall not side with the disbelievers.

[29:51] Is it not enough of a miracle that we sent down to you this book, being recited to them? THIS IS INDEED A MERCY AND A REMINDER for people who believe.

[31:2] These (letters) constitute proofs of this book of wisdom.
[31:3] A BEACON AND A MERCY FOR THE RIGHTEOUS.

[6:157] Nor can you say, "If only a scripture could come down to us, we would be better guided than they." A proven scripture has now come to you from your Lord, and a beacon, and a mercy. Now, who is more evil than one who rejects these proofs from GOD, and disregards them? We will commit those who disregard our proofs to the worst retribution for their heedlessness.

[7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
[7:203] If you do not produce a miracle that they demand, they say, "Why not ask for it?" Say, "I simply follow what is revealed to me from my Lord." These are enlightenments from your Lord, and guidance, and mercy for people who believe.
[7:204] When the Quran is recited, you shall listen to it and take heed, that you may attain mercy.

In the above verses Almighty Allah told that Qur’an is the MERCY for the people. Could you please tell me Why God says so?

[19:53] And we granted him, out of our mercy, his brother Aaron as a prophet.

In the above verse Prophet Aron was MERCY from God. Please tell me why God says so?

[28:46] Nor were you on the slope of Mount Sinai when we called (Moses). But it is mercy from your Lord, (towards the people,) in order to warn people who received no warner before you, that they may take heed.

In the above verse Almighty Allah called Moses and it was mercy for the people. Why God says so?

[44:5] It is a predetermined command from us that we send messengers.
[44:6] This is a mercy from your Lord. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

Here Allah says that sending messenger is the MERCY form Him that means all the messengers were MERCY from God to the people. Why God says so?

Prophet Muhammad had the message i.e. Qur’an with him and for this reason God says so. We should follow only the messenger and the message. When God says obey the (Rasool), He means both the messenger and the message(Qur'an). Both are inseparable. When the messenger, the human being is dead, the true messenger among us becomes the message itself, in this case, the Qur'an and IT is the mercy for the world now. God Almighty has called the Qur'an )Rasool) on many occasions, e.g.41:1-4, 11:1-3, 14:1, 27:1-2, 32:3, 34:6, 5:15 etc. etc..


I think now it is clear for you.

Salam
Samsher.
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Friday, May 27, 2005  -  6:19 AM Reply with quote
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Salam

You mentioned the verse 33:21 below but it is not understandable what do you want to prove.

(1) Certainly you have in the Apostle of Allah an EXCELLENT EXEMPLAR for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much. (33: 21)

>>> Please read. [60:4] A GOOD EXAMPLE HAS BEEN SET FOR YOU BY ABRAHAM AND THOSE WITH HIM. They said to their people, "We disown you and the idols that you worship besides GOD. We denounce you, and you will see nothing from us except animosity and hatred until you believe in GOD ALONE." However, a mistake was committed by Abraham when he said to his father, "I will pray for your forgiveness, but I possess no power to protect you from GOD." "Our Lord, we trust in You, and submit to You; to You is the final destiny.

(2) Most surely it is the Word of an HONOURED messenger (81: 19)

>>> [44:17] We have tested before them the people of Pharaoh; AN HONORABLE MESSENGER went to them.
[44:18] Proclaiming: "Listen to me, servants of GOD. I am AN HONEST MESSENGER to you."

(3) The truth is from your Lord; therefore you should not be of the doubters. (2: 147)

[2:146] Those who received the scripture recognize the truth herein, as they recognize their own children. Yet, some of them conceal the truth, knowingly.
[2:147] This is the truth from your Lord; do not harbor any doubt.

>>>[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
[3:60] This is the truth from your Lord; do not harbor any doubts.

[11:17] As for those who are given solid proof from their Lord, reported by a witness from Him, and before it, the book of Moses has set a precedent and a mercy, they will surely believe. As for those who disbelieve among the various groups, Hell is awaiting them. Do not harbor any doubt; this is the truth from your Lord, but most people disbelieve.

[19:34] That was Jesus, the son of Mary, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.

(4) Every soul must taste of death and We try you by evil and good by way of PROBATION; and to Us you shall be brought back (21: 35)”

>>> [21:35] Every person will taste death, after we put you to the test through adversity and prosperity, then to us you ultimately return.

(5) We will facilitate for him the easy end (92: 7)

>>>[92:5] As for him WHO GIVES TO CHARITY AND MAINTAINS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
[92:6] AND UPHOLDS THE SCRIPTURE.
[92:7] We will direct him towards happiness.
[92:8] But he who is stingy, though he is rich.
[92:9] AND DISBELIEVES IN THE SCRIPTURE.
[92:10] We will direct him towards misery.

(5) Surely We have shown him the way: he may be thankful or unthankful (76: 3).

>>>[76:2] We created the human from a liquid mixture, from two parents, in order to test him. Thus, we made him a hearer and a seer.
[76:3] We showed him the two paths, then he is either appreciative, or unappreciative.
[76:4] We prepared for the disbelievers chains, shackles, and a blazing Hell.
[76:5] As for the virtuous, they will drink from cups spiced with nectar.
[76:6] A spring that is reserved for GOD's servants; it will gush out as they will.

(6) By the grace of your Lord you are not mad (68: 2).

[68:2] You have attained a great blessing from your Lord; you are not crazy.

>>> [11:87] They said, "O Shu`aib, does your religion dictate upon you that we must abandon our parents' religion, or running our businesses in any manner we choose? Surely, you are known for being clement, wise."
[11:88] He said, "O my people, what if I have solid proof from my Lord; what if He has provided me with a great blessing? It is not my wish to commit what I enjoin you from. I only wish to correct as many wrongs as I can. My guidance depends totally on GOD; I have put my trust in Him. To Him I have totally submitted.

[33:46] Inviting to GOD, in accordance with His will, and a guiding beacon.
[33:47] Deliver good news to the believers, that they have deserved from GOD a great blessing.

[38:45] Remember also our servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They were resourceful, and possessed vision.
[38:46] We bestowed upon them a great blessing: awareness of the Hereafter.
[38:47] They were chosen, for they were among the most righteous.

[42:22] You will see the transgressors worried about everything they had committed; everything will come back and haunt them. As for those who believed and led a righteous life, they will be in the gardens of Paradise. They will receive whatever they wish from their Lord. This is the great blessing.

Samsher Ali.
Mikai

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, May 30, 2005  -  8:50 PM Reply with quote
Asa wb

To Bhavittre

Quote:

Salam
you said……Of course, continue to research, be willing to hear from opposite views but never think yourself as being a kafir or the possibility of being punished when your understanding and logical thinking and reasoning is saying to go one paticular way even if it may be wrong.

Thank you amnew for the valuable post.

End Quote.


Actually that was my post (!) but im glad you found it valuable regardless.

From my experience of practicing Islam i have gone through some bad patches just because of these different views and opinions that at times i really did become depressed, so i just remind myself now that Allah Swt is All Merciful and that He knows my soul.

To Amnew

i will try and email soon inshallah.
Bhavittre

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, June 01, 2005  -  2:43 PM Reply with quote
salam Mikai
you said……………. so i just remind myself now that Allah Swt is All Merciful and that He knows my soul.

just imagine for a moment and see yur soul calling others kafir which is the very bad feature of extremism. now how are you feeling glad and proud to see your hidden soul which was known only by allah. please, donot try to speak further to show remains of yur soul. may allah clean you soul.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, June 03, 2005  -  10:20 PM Reply with quote
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Thank you for the reply.

QUOTE: >>> It is not clear what is your question. Please clarify this- (Keep us on the right path. THE PATH OF THOSE upon whom you bestowed favours, NOT the path of those upon whom your wrath is (1: 5, 6)

What I meant was explanation of the path of those people upon whom God bestowed favours. May be this understanding facilitate us to consider the sayings not only of the messenger (sws) but his companions and some others too to understand what God wishes?

QUOTE: [19:19 to 21] The above verses told about Prophet Jesus. Prophet Jesus was also a SIGN and MERCY from GOD for the people. Could you please tell me why God says so? [19:53] And we granted him, out of our mercy, his brother Aaron as a prophet.

Regarding the verse 21: 107, I have not asked about Jesus (Aleh salam), Haroon (Aleh salam), Moses (Aleh salam) and other messengers (Aleh salam), who were, no doubt, mercy to their nations but about the messenger Mohammad (sws). You have facilitated us to add to our belief that if surely all other messengers are mercy to their nations then Mohammad (sws) SURELY is a bigger mercy to us.

QUOTE: [17:82], [17:85 to 87], [27:76, 77], [28:86], [29:51] [31:2, 3], [6:157], [7:52], [7:203, 204], In the above verses Almighty Allah told that Qur’an is the MERCY for the people.

I have already said, “No doubt God is merciful and His message is a mercy to us” BUT Why not here God is saying Himself or His message the mercy but using the word YOU for the messenger- Mohammad (sws)? You could not clarify meanings of YOU used personally about the messenger (sws). If other messengers are also mercy, no body is denying them. If I am not wrong the words for the other messenger are not like that of the verse 21: 107 i.e. YOU as a mercy vs the mercy of us for the other messengers.

QUOTE: Prophet Muhammad had the message i.e. Qur’an with him and for this reason God says so. We should follow only the messenger and the message. When God says obey the (Rasool), He means both the messenger and the message (Qur'an). Both are inseparable.

As you said, “Both are inseparable”, if we obey the messenger (sws) obviously obey Quran and so obey Allah and there seems to be no discrimination among obeying the messenger, obeying Quran and obeying Allah. The next question is why God says separately in various verses “Obey Allah and His messenger (sws)”. Furthermore in the verse 4: 59, in addition to obey Allah and the messenger obey those too among you who are in authority. Taking the support of the verse most of those in authority who can’t even touch holy Quran (56: 79) assert to be standing in line with God and His messenger and what about him (the messenger-sws) on whom the whole Quran has been revealed and whom whole life, before and after prophethood, is an exemplar not only for us but non muslims as well.


According to my understanding in authority are not only those people who are in Govt or Kingdom but every one to ones subordinates is an authority whether it is an office, school, Tableeghi Jamaat etc or the whole Ummah the leader of which or in authority is the only one Mohammad (sws). Here the messenger Mohammad (sws) is surely an authority to command us and we are surely bound to obey.

Wssalam with the saying of God:

And the day when the unjust one shall bite his hands saying: O! Would that I had taken a way with the Apostle (25: 27)
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, June 04, 2005  -  10:44 AM Reply with quote
Dear samsher,

Through the research and the work carried out by the ullamahs in the last fourteen hundred years and though my own research I am fully convinced that following Sunnah of our prophet (SWS) is according to Quran.Following is a link of an article in this regards.

http://ccminc.faithweb.com/iqra/articles/authsun/index.html

This article is very help full to understand the Authority of Sunnah explain from Quranic verses.

I am posting some of yours post here, please have look and see what is your opinion about your own self.

Quote By samsher Ali May 19.2005 Page 10

Do you believe he was a messager????, (Rashad Khalifa)


>>> Of course…

Quote By Samsher Ali March 22 ,2005 Page 5

As for "...and Muhammad is His servant and His messenger." this is a statement of absolute fact. Anyone refusing to accept Muhammad as a messenger of God and the seal of His prophets falls outside the pale of Islam. The correct answer to the question 'is Muhammad a messenger of God and the last of the prophets?' is 'with certitude he is!'. It is not part of the confession of faith as dictated by God, but merely a statement of fact.

Quote by Samsher Ali March 11,2005 Page-4

- God promises to preserve the Quran and nothing else:"Absolutely, we have revealed the 'Zhikr' (Quran), and, absolutely, we will preserve it." 15:9

Quote By samsher Ali May 19.2005 Page 10

The verse 9:128-129 were not there in the original Qur’an, which was destroyed some times after the death of Prophet Muhammad. Code 19 of the Qur’an proved that these verses were not the part of Qur’an. Also history says so. Whether you believe or not that is your choice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not the matter of believer's choice as far as beliving in the Quran is concerned.The majority of people on earth did not blieve in Quran.So this could be matter of choice for them only to blieve or not to blieve in Quran.

I only can pray for you that Allah shows you the right Path.(God help those who help them self)

Allah Hafiz
Asim2

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, June 07, 2005  -  5:37 PM Reply with quote
With The Name of ALLAH, The Infinitely Merciful, The Ever Merciful
Assalam-u-allaikum! (peace/safety be upon you)

We are required to obey Prophet Muhammad and we have been commanded to obey the Prophet Muhammad (ALLAH's Mercy, Blessings and peace be upon him ) . Today we are required to follow the Authentic Hadith, and the Authentic Sunnah.

Rasul doesn't mean messenger. Messenger is a simple message deliverer !
How much work on translation still needs to be done !! imagine !!! Rasul being translated as messenger !
Rasul is a special person sent by ALLAH do convey the message of ALLAH in a convincing manner .
Please focus on the vocabulary of the Qur'an first. Any one who wants to learn Qur'anic Arabic first focus on the vocabulary of important terms like this and research on these terms.

Proof follows:

You who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Rasul and those in command among you. If you have a dispute about something, refer it back to Allah and the Rasul, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best thing to do and gives the best result. (4:59)

"those in command among you" are only included because it indicates when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself is not present otherwise only Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is in command among the Muslims and only he(pbuh) is to be obeyed. So Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) also has to be obeyed even today even more than those in authority because the word obey is used for emphasis with ALLAH and prophet Muhammad (pbuh)and not with the authorities , so the authority today must also obey ALLAH and His Rasul (pbuh) and must be under constant analysis to check whether he is following ALLAH and His Rasul (pbuh) and if not disputation will be done as indicated by this Ayat and the only criterion for this disputation will be ALLAH and His Rasul (pbuh) .

"Obey is used for ALLAH and obey is used for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) but the word is not used for those in command among us, so a lesser emphasis this time on these in command people, showing the solid and unchallengable authority of ALLAH and HIS Rasul (pbuh) and the possibility of having a dispute with the people in command on an issue specially Islamic issue since refering back to ALLAH and HIS Rasul (pbuh) is referring to the teachings of ALLAH and His Rasul (pbuh) "

"If you have a dispute about something, refer it back to Allah and the Rasul (pbuh), if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best thing to do and gives the best result" . Of course who can have a dispute about anything when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is with the Muslims in person. So it refers to a situation in his absence . Refer it back to ALLAH and the Rasul (pbuh) proves that the authentic Hadith and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) are also to be followed. Also the most wise person, was Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) . No one can even understand 1/1000 the of the Islam that he (pbuh) understood so why reject the Authentic Hadith and the Authentic Sunnah which teach us Islam after the Qur'an itself .

"if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best thing to do and gives the best result."

So if you really believe in ALLAH and the Last day then why would you not settle your disputes in the Light of the Qur'an and The Hadith/Sunnah. And gives the best reward in the Hereafter.
Because the perfect follower of Islam is only 1 and he is our Rasul (pbuh).
And following his teachings instead of some religious scholar's teachings can guarantee a lot higher Reward .

Remember vacuum can't exist. if you throw away Hadith and Sunnah then vacuum can't be there something will replace the Hadith and the Sunnah and these are personal reasoning and reasoning of different scholars. If
we also throw away the Authentic Ahadith , then imagine how many different schools of thought will be there.

The Qur'an.....who taught us the Qur'an ?, who explained the Qur'an?, who is the perfect follower of Qur'an?, who is the official teacher of Qur'an?, Who was given the Qur'an?, Who was chosen to deliver and explain the Qur'an slowly ? Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) of course
Our Rasul (pbuh) . After him (pbuh) no other Rasul or Nabi will come so his teachings will also live with Islam and must be followed .

Here are some other Ayaat of the Qur'an

He will put your actions right for you and forgive you your wrong deeds. All who obey Allah and His Rasul have won a mighty victory. (33:71)

You who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Rasul. Do not make your actions of no worth. (47:33)

The men and women of the believers are friends of one another. They command what is right and forbid what is wrong, and perform prayer and give the alms, and obey Allah and His Rasul. They are the people on whom Allah will have mercy. Allah is Almighty, All-Wise. (9:71)

Obey Allah and His Rasul and do not quarrel among yourselves lest you lose heart and your momentum disappear. And be steadfast. Allah is with the steadfast. (8:46)

All who obey Allah and His Rasul and have awe of Allah and fear of Him, they are the ones who are victorious. (24:52)

There is no constraint on the blind, nor on the lame, nor on the sick. We will admit all who obey Allah and His Rasul into Gardens with rivers flowing under them. But We will punish with a painful punishment anyone who turns his back. (48:17)

As for those who disobey Allah and His Rasul and overstep His limits, We will admit them into a Fire, remaining in it timelessly, for ever. They will have a humiliating punishment. (4:14)

Obey Allah and obey the Rasul. But if you turn your backs, the Rasul is only responsible for clear transmission. (64:12)

Obey Allah and obey the Rasul and beware! If you turn your backs, know that Our Rasul is only responsible for clear transmission. (5:92)

Say: ‘Obey Allah and obey the Rasul. Then if they turn away he is only responsible for what he is charged with and you are responsible for what you are charged with. If you obey him, you will be guided.’ The Rasul is only responsible for clear transmission. (24:54)

Edited by: ibrahim on Monday, December 05, 2005 6:10 AM
Asim2

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, June 08, 2005  -  6:43 AM Reply with quote
Preview from sacred Hadith project


For our subsequent considerations, it would be convenient to divide ahadith into three main categories:
1. Regulatory Hadith
Those which record sayings or actions of the Prophet that regulated the life of the Muslim community. They may consist of his orders to the community or to individuals in charge of certain affairs in the community. Or, they may consist of approval of decisions that other people took in regulating community life. We shall refer to such a hadith as a regulatory hadith. The regulatory hadith is essentially the sunnah as we have defined above. By its very nature a regulatory hadith must have been widely known.
2. Teaching Hadith
Those which record words and actions of the Prophet that were spoken/done in the presence of individuals or small groups and were aimed at their religious, spiritual and/or moral education. We shall refer to such a hadith as a teaching hadith. A teaching hadith might not have been widely known when the Prophet left this world. Note also that a regulatory hadith can be considered a teaching hadith but not necessarily vice versa.
3. Circumstantial Hadith
Those sayings and actions of the Prophet that he spoke/did in the capacity of an individual living in a certain time, place, and culture, e.g., his riding a camel. We would refer to such a hadith as a circumstantial hadith.

Finally we will need to often refer to certain existing views about Hadith and it would be convenient to define them more precisely. In the main there are four views with various possible shades of opinion in each:
View 1:
The Qur'an is the only source of Islamic guidance/law; the hadith has no revelatory value (this will be referred to as the Only-only position).
View 2 (my personal view is nearer to this view than other 3 views)
The Hadith is a secondary but revelatory source of Islamic guidance/law and the question of authenticity of ahadith will forever remain open although with research more and more probable results can be obtained. This is the view argued in this book.
view 3:
The Hadith is an independent source of Islamic guidance/law but the question of authenticity is open.
view 4:
The Hadith is an independent source of Islamic guidance/law and the question of authenticity was settled with high degree of reliability by the classical muhaddithun (this will be referred to as the traditionalist position).


For this informative project visit and read today:

www.islamicperspectives.com/HadithProject.htm

Edited by: ibrahim on Monday, December 05, 2005 6:13 AM
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Wednesday, June 08, 2005  -  8:54 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

Quote:- This is not the matter of believer's choice as far as beliving in the Quran is concerned. The majority of people on earth did not blieve in Quran. So this could be matter of choice for them only to blieve or not to blieve in Quran.

>>> You rightly said, but brother do you believe in Qur’an only? I think you don’t.

Quote:- I only can pray for you that Allah shows you the right Path.(God help those who help them self)

>>> Sorry brother, your prayer will not require for me. You should ask forgiveness to Almighty Allah for your ownself.


Samsher Ali.
Loveall

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, June 09, 2005  -  8:09 PM Reply with quote
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

QUOTE: Brother, Prophet Muhammad is now dead. Do you not know? We can’t follow or obey him in person. We can now follow & obey him by following his message i.e. Qur’an and nothing else.

According to my Quranic belief he is alive but we are blind and deaf to see and hear him, but not dumb, i.e. we have no perception, as GOD SAYS:

And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way, as dead; they are alive but you do not perceive (2: 154).

If the Quranic verse is certifying the slain in the way of God, not dead and what about that Great Personality (peace be upon him) upon whom whole Quran is revealed and he is called a mercy to the worlds (21: 107) till Quran exists (15: 9). I am really wondered if we believe the slain in the way of God, alive and the Prophet (peace be upon him) dead?

After seeing Quranic verse (2: 154) and the above paragraph, do the Quranic words like “Afala Taalamoon”, “Afala Taaqeloon”, and “Afala Tashoroon and La Tashoroon as in the verse” click some centres of the brain to make the both lives more easy. Suppose there is no clicking of the mind, see below an example.

AN EXAMPLE.

Suppose someone gets an attack of appendicitis, everyone knows that the patient will be subjected to removal of the appendix anywhere in the world. Lawson Trait did the first operation in 1880, with some modification later on. Do you know that person is non muslim and dead now but we are bound to present ourselves to his command? If one obeys him one is happy within 24 hours otherwise a catastrophic septic process (putrefaction) may involves whole of the body leading even to death or a complex process of recurrent attacks making the life miserable.

By giving the above example, I mean to say if we are subjecting ourselves to the knife of a dead nonmuslim why not to the sweat words of Mohammad (Peace be upon him) on whom whole Quran has been revealed and this Quran is certifying to obey him in the various verses. There are numerous other such examples.

MY INFERENCE:

In additions to many other verses, (2: 154), (4: 59), and (15: 9) give Mohammad (Peace be upon him) clearly the authority otherwise the Quranic words like “Tadabbaroon” “La Taalamoon”, “La Taaqeloon”, and “LaTashoroon” surely help us to know the truth.
usmani790

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, June 10, 2005  -  7:28 AM Reply with quote
Dear Shamsher

This is not the matter of believer's choice as far as believing in the Quran is concerned. The majority of people on earth did not believe in Quran. So this could be matter of choice for them only to believe or not to believe in Quran.

Quote: -You rightly said, but brother do you believe in Qur’an only? I think you don’t.

Yes I believe in Quran only. All the while in my all-previous post, for following the Sunnah of Prophet, I always quote the Quran only.

This is also where we need to used our Brain, Heart and eyes as per the Quran directions to made sure any thing we follow from sunnah, Hadith or any other source, must be in compliance with Quran’s teaching. Our judgment must be based on best of our efforts and whole-heartedly. We can ask each other that one is obeying or not obeying sunnah or any other thing through his best of understanding of Quran and whole heartedly, but we can not tell lies to Allah at day of Judgement.He knows that what was in heart and how much our statement is base on truth.

I only can pray for you that Allah shows you the right Path. (God help those who help them self)

Quote: -Sorry brother, your prayer will not require for me. You should ask forgiveness to Almighty Allah for your ownself


Show us the straight way,
The way of those, on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
(1-6,7)

Allah Hafiz
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, June 14, 2005  -  12:50 PM Reply with quote
Salam brother,

Quote:- According to my Quranic belief he is alive but we are blind and deaf to see and hear him, but not dumb, i.e. we have no perception, as GOD SAYS:

And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way, as dead; they are alive but you do not perceive (2: 154).

[2:154] Do not say of those WHO ARE KILLED in the cause of GOD, "They are dead." They are alive at their Lord, but you do not perceive.

>>> Brother according to your cited verse not only Prophet Muhammad but also All who are slain in Allah’s way are alive. We can’t follow or obey Prophet Muhammad in person. We can now follow & obey him by following his message i.e. Qur’an and nothing else.

[16:20] As for the idols they set up beside GOD, they do not create anything; they themselves were created.
[16:21] They are dead, not alive, and they have no idea how or when they will be resurrected.

Quote:- In additions to many other verses, (2: 154), (4: 59), and (15: 9) give Mohammad (Peace be upon him) clearly the authority

>>> [53:1] As the stars fell away.
[53:2] Your friend (Muhammad) was not astray, nor was he deceived.
[53:3] Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire.
[53:4] It was divine inspiration.
[53:5] Dictated by the Most Powerful.
[53:6] POSSESSOR OF ALL AUTHORITY. From His highest height.


Salam,
Samsher
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, June 14, 2005  -  12:52 PM Reply with quote
Dear usmani790

Quote:- This is not the matter of believer's choice as far as believing in the Quran is concerned.

>>>> But this is the matter of disbeliever’s choice brother.

Quote: -Yes I believe in Quran only. All the while in my all-previous post, for following the Sunnah of Prophet, I always quote the Quran only.

>>> No brother you did not able to show even till this date any verse from the Qur’an wherein it is said Sunnah of Prophet. This is your imagination. We should follow only Qur’an and nothing else. If you don’t believe then please show me proof from the Qur’an in support of your thinking.


Quote:- Quran directions to made sure any thing we follow from sunnah, Hadith or any other source, must be in compliance with Quran’s teaching.

>>>> We should use our brain, heart, eyes but does not require any other source besides Qur’an as source of Islam.

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
[6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.

[18:27] you shall recite WHAT IS REVEALED TO YOU OF YOUR LORD'S SCRIPTURE. Nothing shall abrogate his words, AND YOU SHALL NOT FIND ANY OTHER SOURCE BESIDE IT.

Quote:- I only can pray for you that Allah shows you the right Path.

[18:38] "As for me, GOD is my Lord, and I will never set up any other god besides my Lord.


Salam
Samsher.

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