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raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007  -  12:17 PM Reply with quote
quote:

Dear raushan,

Reply:- 4. Why Almighty Allah said ‘obey messenger’ instead of ‘obey Muhammad’? I know now you ask me this type of question e.g. ‘was not Muhammad a messenger….etc..etc.?’ Yes Muhammad was a messenger, but my question is why Almighty Allah did not say even in single instance in the Qur’an that ‘Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad’, instead all the times God said in the Qur’an ‘Obey Allah and Obey messenger’ Why?

It is because Almighty Allah wants to say that we should follow/obey only his message i.e. Qur’an so He said every time in the Qur’an that ‘Obey Allah and Obey messenger’. Prophet Muhammad practiced ONLY QUR’AN and nothing else. He preached Qur’an and practiced Qur’an.

Samsher

will you elaborate for me as if there is any difference between 'preach 'and 'practice'.
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007  -  12:20 PM Reply with quote
quote:

(few months back I had already answered your question)

Samsher

You did answer me few months back but I request you to reply me again :
if salat end with the last prostration then there must be more than one prostration in salat.
Plz tell me how many prostrations should be in salah.

Edited by: raushan on Sunday, March 25, 2007 4:15 PM
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007  -  12:24 PM Reply with quote
quote:

7.
The Quran is a ''Book from Allah" because Muhammad told the people what the Quran was/is.
So if you cannot obey what "Mohammad" left ...than you cannot obey the Quran...because Muhammad tranmitted the Quran..

Edited by: raushan on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:42 AM

dear ali,
fyi
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007  -  2:42 PM Reply with quote
quote:


3. Reply: I don’t think so. It is independent ‘s choice. I can say only that the Rashad Khalifa’s English translation of Qur’an is the easiest and more accurate than the other English translations

Samsher

Edited by: ibrahim on Saturday, March 24, 2007 8:20 AM

According to you, man (scholar or otherwise) cannot guide you.You say only the Quran can teach us.

Now refer to your above answer How does Rashad Khalifa explain verses of the Quran to you? Based on what authority? What knowledge? Is it his own interpretation? Is that allowed? According to what authority is it allowed?
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007  -  3:38 PM Reply with quote
No one ever denied the Quran is the first and last. But the thing you keep falling to admit is that the Quran was brought AND TAUGHT by Muhammad and used Muhammad as the teacher of the things it says. Allah says in the Quran to fast...Muhammad taught us to fast (NOT THE QURAN). Allah says in the Quran to pray...Muhammad teached us to pray (NOT THE QURAN).

Isnt it so brother ali?
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007  -  3:47 PM Reply with quote
WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THIS NARRATION:

[During my Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, and before sunrise on Tuesday, Zul-Hijjah 3, 1391, December 21, 1971, I, Rashad Khalifa, the soul, the real person, not the body, was taken to some place in the universe where I was introduced to all the prophets as God's Messenger of the Covenant. I was not informed of the details and true significance of this event until Ramadan 1408.

What I witnessed, in sharp consciousness, was that I was sitting still, while the prophets, one by one, came towards me, looked at my face, then nodded their heads. God showed them to me as they had looked in this world, attired in their respective mode of dress. There was an atmosphere of great awe, joy, and respect.

Except for Abraham, none of the prophets was identified to me. I knew that all the prophets were there, including Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Aaron, David, Noah, and the rest. I believe that the reason for revealing Abraham's identity was that I asked about him. I was taken aback by the strong resemblance he had with my own family - myself, my father, my uncles. It was the only time that I wondered, "Who is this prophet who looks like my relatives?" The answer came: "Abraham." No language was spoken. All communication was done mentally.

http://www.submission.info/quran/appendices/appendix2.html]
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007  -  3:55 PM Reply with quote
The story about Rashad going to heaven in Appendix 2 cannot be found in the Quran. Can you show me where in the Quran Rashad was sent to heaven?

Now plz consider this:

Do you follow Rashad's hadiths.

Do you need submission.org to explain things to you.

Do you need his appendices.

Do you need his extra-Quranic interpretation where he adds his own words and his name in parenthesis.

(Rashad's Appendices / extra-Quranic interpolations = Rashad's Hadiths. )

Dont you yourself actually follow what you denounce as "satanic innovations". ?
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007  -  3:59 PM Reply with quote
what do you say about the last 2 verses of sura 9?

or
Can you show me where in the Quran it says the last 2 verses of sura 9 are not part of the Quran?
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Saturday, March 24, 2007  -  4:04 PM Reply with quote
One last question ,how can you pray in a mosque...when the Quran dedicates no collated form of prayer?
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Sunday, March 25, 2007  -  3:21 PM Reply with quote
Quran is the only source of law,as you insisted since beginning.
let me ask you ,are you telling about Quran(arabic)or the translation of the Quran as a source of law.Do you mean the english translation of the Quran as the only source of law .If yes then plz tell me ,didnt you choose a parellel source besides quran as a source of law?
raushan

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Sunday, March 25, 2007  -  3:46 PM Reply with quote
Quran and translation of Quran are two things,plz see,

[34:28] We have sent you (O Rashad)* to all the people, a bearer of good news, as well as a warner, but most people do not know.
Footnote
http://www.masjidtucson.org/ quran/noframes/ch34.html
********
Note, the words "O Rashad" do not exist in the Arabic Quran. Rashad added them - 1400 years after the Quran was revealed to Muhammad. They are Rashad's HADITH. (apart from translation you also need footnotes to understand this .)
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, March 26, 2007  -  10:35 AM Reply with quote
thnx for the comments by our participants.

In order to understand the relationship between Qur'an and the teachings of the prophets, updated and summarized by the last prophet Muhammad sws(pbuh) we ought to understand the following facts, which we present not only in our Urdu and English journals issued from Almawrid Institute of Islamic Sciences, but alsoin the courses compiled by Studying Islam and the Q on our sister site Understanding Islam www.understanding-islam.org Text Historical Background

The Qur’an must be understood in the background in which it was revealed. According to established history, it was revealed to Muhammad (sws) in the sixth century in Arabia. It is evident from this history that Muhammad (sws) explained the Qur’an wherever and whenever a need arose, and so did the scholars among his Companions and the scholars and researchers after them. This history of the Qur’an is an established fact and demands the following from its students:

Firstly, he must be well aware of the history of the period and place in which the Qur’an was revealed. Every student of the Qur’an knows that it mentions the destruction of previous Arab nations like the ‘Ad, the Thamud and the people of Madyan. The views held by these peoples are alluded to by the Qur’an. It also mentions the preaching of their respective prophets and the way these people reacted to it. Also depicted in the Qur’an is the arrival of Abraham (sws) into Arabia, the sacrifice of his son Ishmael (sws) and the construction of the Baytullah. The Qur’an also refers to the influence of Abraham (sws) and Ishmael (sws) on the cultural, moral, social and economic conditions of Arabia. Also portrayed in the Qur’an are the alterations done by the Quraysh in the religion constituted by Abraham (sws) and Ishmael (sws) and the way they transformed the Baytullah, the centre of monotheism into a centre of idol worship and the religious innovations and rituals which as a result of this made way into their religion. Similarly, discussed in the Qur’an are the circumstances in which the Qur’an was revealed, the incidents which took place at that time, as well as the political and religious views which were in vogue at that time. In order to understand all this, it is essential that the available history of that period be fully benefited from while keeping it subservient to the words of the Qur’an and its coherence. Through this, many aspects to which the Qur’an refers to can be understood better, and it is also helpful in unfolding many complexities of the Qur’an.
hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, March 26, 2007  -  10:38 AM Reply with quote
contd:

Secondly, full importance should be given to whatever is mentioned in Ahadith and Athar literature with reference to the Prophet (sws) and his Companions (rta). No doubt they contain many spurious things, and since the original words have not always been preserved and a narrator has relied on his own intellect to transmit these words, a lot of changes have come about in the original words, yet this literature still contains many valuable gems. While pointing out the correct attitude in this regard, Imam Amin Ahsan Islahi, writes:


Among the dhanni [speculative; non-definite] sources of tafsir, Ahadith and Athar occupy the highest status. If their authenticity could have been full relied upon, they would have had the same importance in tafsir as the Sunnat-i Mutawatirah. However, since Ahadith and Athar do not possess this degree of authenticity, they can only be benefited from as far as they are found to be in conformity with the absolute principles of interpreting the Qur’an delineated above. Those who give such importance to the Hadith that they make the Qur’an subservient to it are neither aware of the status of the Qur’an nor that of the Hadith. On other hand, people who don’t even refer to the Hadith in interpreting the Qur’an deprive themselves of a great treasure second only to the Qur’an. I consider the Hadith to be totally derived from the Qur’an; thus I have not confined myself to Hadith which are mentioned in relation to a verse of the Qur’an; as far as I could, I have tried to benefit from the whole corpus of the Hadith. They have helped me the most in understanding the wisdom of the Qur’an. If I have found a Hadith which is not in harmony with the Qur’an, I have deliberated upon it for a long period, and I have only rejected it when it became abundantly clear to me that it is against the Qur’an or it is in conflict with some principle of religion. As far as correct Hadith are concerned, seldom has there arisen a case in which they contradict the Qur’an; however, when this was the case, I have preferred the Qur’an to them, and have written my reasons of this preference in detail.(ref:60)

hkhan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, March 26, 2007  -  10:44 AM Reply with quote
Thirdly, whatever scholars and exegetes have written must be given due consideration. It is only by benefiting from the works of previous scholars that new dimensions are added in such disciplines; this cannot be done by ignoring them. True knowledge does not come through arrogance and haughtiness; it comes with humility and a sincere love for the truth. Thus it is essential that students of the Qur’an must always study the primary exegetical works on the Qur’an when they are forming an opinion or deliberating on and teaching a verse. Prior to the leading scholars of the Farahi school who have worked on Qur’anic exegesis, three primary works on the exegesis of the Qur’an can be identified: al-Jami‘ al-Bayan of Ibn Jarir, Tafsir al-Kabir of Razi and al-Kashshaff of Zamakhshari. The first of these is a compendium of the opinions of authorities of the past; the second mostly deals with theological issues and third with declensions and syntax. From among these primary works, though a student of the Qur’an should only take what is in harmony with the words of the Qur’an and its coherence and arrangement; however, he should never ignore these works.



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sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, March 26, 2007  -  11:55 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

Quote:-I didnt ask whether Quran is perfect, detailed, complete or not. Every muslim knows it.

Reply:- I know which question you had asked me. If you believe that Qur’an is fully detailed, complete….. then why did you ask me this type of question that “where can ….Qur’an”? Definitely you should not ask this type of idiotic question. This question from you proves that you know that Qur’an is fully detailed, complete, perfect (as you read these words in Qur’an), but not believe it in heart…………

However, if you visit, if you wish, www.quran-islam.org , then it can tell you where in the Qur’an you can find all these.

Samsher
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, March 26, 2007  -  11:57 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

Quote:- On the other note,I told you earlier in the previous question by Quran I mean the Quran in arabic.
can you say a translation can replace its original words or is it a human work and may prone to errors?


Reply: Firstly, Qur’an is message for humankind and message can be read in any language.
The arguments of the proponent of hadith have not ended yet. They come back yet again and say that if we are not to seek our scholars for Guidance then how do we even learn the Arabic language to be able to read the Qur’an? In short, their argument can be summarized as follows:
"The Qur’an is a PERFECT Book, but to ACCESS it we need the Arabic language, which is taught by imperfect human beings (i.e an OUTSIDE source). Thus, if we use an outside source (Arabic language) to access the Qur’an, we MUST also use other outside sources like the historical records preserved by human beings, in particular the books of Hadith, to understand the Qur’an".
We will see how this kind of an argument is a theological as well as a logical mistake. Before we get into the Arabic language, we need to identify the basic DEPENDANCIES of human existence. These dependencies can be divided into two categories - One "Natural Dependencies", and the other "Forced Dependencies". For example, a human being is NATURALLY dependent upon a tongue to speak. But a "stereo" or a microphone is a FORCED dependency as far as the human ability to speak goes. In other words, a NATURAL dependency is something without which a human being CANNOT perform a particular function. Whereas a FORCED dependency is something without which the basic function can be performed.
Now, the Qur’an says that it is Allah Who CREATED us. Yet, none of us came into existence without the AID of our PARENTS. Thus TWO PARENTS is a NATURAL dependency for our existence. This does not mean that Allah did NOT create us and our parents created us - it only means that this is part of our natural existence since we live in a material world.
I am sure that most of us have aunts and uncles who love us a great deal and may have aided our parents in rearing us. However, my aunts and uncles are NOT necessary for my existence. I could definitely have come into existence and grown to adulthood WITHOUT my aunts and uncles. If someone says that since I needed my parents to come into existence, I also needed my aunts and uncles to come into existence, that would be logically a false argument. The logical problem here is that the person is using one set, 'A' (my parents in this case) to form the premise, and another set, 'B' (my uncles and aunts) to form a conclusion. In this particular case, the characteristics of set A are DIFFERENT from the characteristics of set B when looked at in the context of my EXISTANCE.
The second thing to note in the above example is that even though my parents may be NECESSARY for my existence, they do NOT take the role of the Creator. They are simply there as a mechanism devised by the Creator for perpetuating human existence.
Now we turn to the example of Arabic Language. Allah tells us in the Qur’an:
"Most Gracious! Taught the Quran. He created humankind, and taught them power of expression" (55:1-4)
Thus humans are dependent upon "power of expression" to communicate with other humans and definitely, to communicate verbally, the human species is dependent upon language and speech. Just as a person needs ears to hear, a tongue to speak, a nose to smell, a brain to think and parents to exist, he also needs language to communicate.
The Qur’an is ENOUGH for us, but in this finite world of dependencies, to access its words, humans are naturally dependent on at least some of the following:
1. The existence of a human to read it. 2. The human must have a well functioning brain to understand it. 3. The human must have eyes to read to see the words, or ears to listen. 4.. The human must have a tongue to recite it. 6. The human must know the language to make sense of the scribbling on the pages. (To read the original Arabic, the human MUST know the Arabic language. To read a translation, the human MUST know the language of translation)
If any of the above faculties is missing, one may not be able to read/listen or understand to the Qur’an. Compare this with the PARENTS example, where my existence is dependent upon my parents. Similarly, one's ability to read/listen to the Qur’an is based on the above characteristics. Thus these characteristics are the NATURAL dependencies for reading/listening to the Qur’an.
However, Anyone with these faculties can open a Qur’an and start reading the Qur’an. The knowledge of Hadith/history however, does not posses this NATURAL quality. Please compare this with the example of aunts and uncles, who are not required for my existence. Thus, this whole argument of comparing the Arabic language with Hadith is illogical and is a grave fallacy - one must know the Arabic language to understand the Arabic Qur'an, but that does not imply that one must also study the Hadith books to understand the Qur'an.

To be continued…..

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