| Author | Topic |
aboosait
INDIA
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 Posted - Sunday, August 14, 2011 - 4:19 AM 
quote:
5:92 (Y. Ali) Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.
Answer:- I don’t find any difference between the discussion part of the translation. I wanted to say by quoting the verse in portion that ‘the sole duty of the messenger is to deliver/proclaim the message(quran).
If you dont know Arabic ask someone who knows the language.
Allah says, ...it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.
And you are misinterpreting it as ‘the sole duty of the messenger is to deliver/proclaim the message(quran).
FEAR ALLAH. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, August 14, 2011 - 4:26 AM
quote:
...please try to listen the message of the following verses...;
So you have made your point clear that you will obey only the verses of your choice and discard what the other Verses command. This was how some of the previous generations went astray and Allah asks them " Is it that you believe in a portion of the Book and reject a portion"? |
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 5:52 AM
quote:
quote:
Quote:- samsher, please answer your own question w.r.t. your above statement.
Answer:- which question do you refer here brother?
Please scroll back and read the whole post under reference. I have quoted your question also.
Reply :- I have not time to read your nonsense story again & again. Please specify the question about which you pointed out. |
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 7:00 AM
quote:
quote:
5:92 (Y. Ali) Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.
Answer:- I don’t find any difference between the discussion part of the translation. I wanted to say by quoting the verse in portion that ‘the sole duty of the messenger is to deliver/proclaim the message(quran).
If you dont know Arabic ask someone who knows the language.
Allah says, ...it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.
And you are misinterpreting it as ‘the sole duty of the messenger is to deliver/proclaim the message(quran).
FEAR ALLAH.
Reply:- Please read Marmaduke Pilthall's translation of the concerned verse;
PICKTHAL: Obey Allah and obey the messenger, and beware! But if ye turn away, then know that the duty of Our messenger is only plain conveyance (of the message (5:92).
Do you see the difference between your cherished translation and Pickthall's translation?
Now I ask you brother, did Pickthall know the Arabic well?
Now you should ask the Arabic knowing people whose translation is the most correct one.
I think that yusuf ali's trnaslation ofthe concerned verse is the corrupted one. He added the word 'clearest manner' to prove the claim of some hadith that prophet Muhammed had the power to explain the quran, which, according to Qur'an is wrong.
Besides the above, if any one say that 'prophet muhammed convey the message clearly to the people', that does not definitely mean that prophet muhammed added his own word to the message when he conveyed it to the people. Convey the message clearly means convey the measage as it is.
convey the message clearly = convey the message as it is. |
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 7:06 AM
quote:
quote:
...please try to listen the message of the following verses...;
So you have made your point clear that you will obey only the verses of your choice and discard what the other Verses command. This was how some of the previous generations went astray and Allah asks them " Is it that you believe in a portion of the Book and reject a portion"?
Reply:- Which command of the other verses of the Qur'an I discarded brother? Please give reference. |
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 9:46 AM
| Very nice brother samsher. I have the question to abousait. |
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 9:55 AM
| Same question of samsher. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 2:56 PM
quote:
Which command of the other verses of the Qur'an I discarded brother? Please give reference.
In reply I would like to quote your own words:
quote:
I have not time to read your nonsense story again & again.
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 3:33 PM
| So you abousait could not produce the reference declaring yoursef well wrong. |
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Gazizia
BANGLADESH
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Posted - Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 5:18 PM
Salam, my brother.
I want to know that when Allah created universe. Please give me answer with sign of Quran and Hadith. |
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 6:57 AM
quote:
quote:
Which command of the other verses of the Qur'an I discarded brother? Please give reference.
In reply I would like to quote your own words:
quote:
I have not time to read your nonsense story again & again.
quote:
quote:
Which command of the other verses of the Qur'an I discarded brother? Please give reference.
In reply I would like to quote your own words:
quote:
I have not time to read your nonsense story again & again.
I declare firmly that I did not/do not discard any verse of the Qur'an. If you think otherwise then you have to provide reference of that. You can also flee away without replying my question by hook or by crook. It is your right. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 3:43 PM
quote:
I declare firmly that I did not/do not discard any verse of the Qur'an. .
Do you believe in or reject the following Verse?
[33:21] *Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much *. |
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, August 19, 2011 - 8:01 AM
quote:
quote:
I declare firmly that I did not/do not discard any verse of the Qur'an. .
Do you believe in or reject the following Verse?
[33:21] *Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much *.
Reply:- What is the Good Example of Messenger according to you brother? Please provide reference from Qur'an in support of your opinion. I shall, InshAllah, describe this after receiving response from you. |
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, August 19, 2011 - 8:01 AM
quote:
quote:
I declare firmly that I did not/do not discard any verse of the Qur'an. .
Do you believe in or reject the following Verse?
[33:21] *Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much *.
Reply:- What is the Good Example of Messenger according to you brother? Please provide reference from Qur'an in support of your opinion. I shall, InshAllah, describe this after receiving response from you. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, August 22, 2011 - 2:21 AM
quote:
.....What is the Good Example of Messenger according to you brother? Please provide reference from Qur'an in support of your opinion. ......
The Qur’an, being of a miraculous exposition, is never otiose nor exceeds the proper terms.
Allah says,
He Who raised among the unlettered ones a Messenger from them, reciting to them His signs, purifies them and instructs them in the Book and the Wisdom. (al-Jumu‘a, 62.2)
In the above Verse, "Wisdom" comes after "Book" as a separate word. Therefore it must refer to something different from the Book.
The Book is the Qur’an and the Wisdom is the Sunnah which expands on what is brief in the Book and clarifies its ambiguities, specifies what is unconditional and general and vice versa, so that general principles or specific rulings can be understood from what is commanded in the Qur’an.
The Qur’an in many verses enjoins absolute obedience to God’s Messengers. This obedience is not due to their person, but because of their mission as the ‘officials’ of God in guiding people to truth both individually and socially, materially, intellectually and spiritually.
We have not sent a Messenger save to be obeyed by God’s leave. (al-Nisa’, 4.64)
O you who believe! Obey God and His Messenger, and do not turn away from him. (al-Anfal, 8.20)
Obedience to God means unconditional obedience to His Commandments in the Qur’an and His laws in life and in the operation of the universe.
Obedience to the Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, is following his way in all the aspects of life, in practicing the Qur’an, and in all the orders of the Messenger besides the Qur’an.
The Sunnah contains all the orders and prohibitions, warnings and encouragements of God’s Messenger, who said: Take care! I have been given the Book and its like together with it.
Verse 20 of al-Anfal warns the Muslims not to turn away from the Messenger. Therefore, disobedience to the Sunnah, even belittling and criticizing it, amounts to heresy, even apostasy.
There are many other verses which emphasize the importance of the Sunnah, or following the ex-ample of God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings:
O you who believe! Obey God and obey the Messenger and those in authority from amongst you. (al-Nisa’, 4.59)
The verse stresses, besides obedience to God, obedience to God’s Messenger, and the repetition of the verb obey in the imperative mood points to the fact that the Messenger has the authority to command or forbid, and that the Muslims must carry out his commands and refrain from his prohibitions. Besides, where obedience to those in authority who share the same faith and feelings as the Muslims, is ordered, the Prophet has a far greater right to be obeyed.
Another verse:
Obey God and His Messenger and do not dispute with one another, lest you should be dissolved (dispersed) and your strength fade away; and be steadfast. (al-Anfal, 8.46)
According to this verse, the strength and unity of the Muslims lie in their submission to God and His Messenger. The Sunna is the unique way or example set by God’s Messenger for the Muslims to follow. Also, it is through the Sunnah that a Muslim can live according to the Qur’an. By putting the Qur’an into practice, God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, established the way which the Muslims must follow. From this viewpoint, the Sunnah is more comprehensive than the Qur’an and, without it, the Muslims cannot design their life according to the Qur’an. So, obedience to God is pos-sible by obeying the Messenger or by following his Sunnah. This is explicitly stated in the following verse:
Say (O Muhammad!): ‘If you love God, follow me so that God loves you.’ (Al ‘Imran, 3.31)
Love of God is impossible for one to acquire without following the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings. No one can claim love of God, nor can he be loved by God, unless he follows the Sunnah, the example of the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, as this is the main source of our religious life, promoted and encouraged by the Qur’an.
Allah says, (translation of the meaning)
It is not for any believer, man or woman, when God and His Messenger have decreed a matter, to have the choice in the affair. Whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error. (al-Ahzab, 33.36)
And He says,
".........Nothing have we omitted from the Book......." (6:38)
Indeed, He has not omitted from the Book that the Prophet was given the Book and the Wisdom.(al-Jumu‘a, 62.2)
And,
Al-Imran [3:164]
لَقَدْ مَنَّ اللّهُ عَلَى الْمُؤمِنِينَ إِذْ بَعَثَ فِيهِمْ رَسُولاً مِّنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَإِن كَانُواْ مِن قَبْلُ لَفِي ضَلالٍ مُّبِينٍ
3:164 Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.
The Qur’an also declares:
Nay, by your Lord, they will never become believers until they choose you as judge to settle the matters in dispute between them. (al-Nisa’, 4.65)
Edited by: aboosait on Monday, August 22, 2011 4:32 AM |
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 8:59 AM
quote:
quote:
.....What is the Good Example of Messenger according to you brother? Please provide reference from Qur'an in support of your opinion. ......
The Qur’an, being of a miraculous exposition, is never otiose nor exceeds the proper terms.
Allah says,
He Who raised among the unlettered ones a Messenger from them, reciting to them His signs, purifies them and instructs them in the Book and the Wisdom. (al-Jumu‘a, 62.2)
In the above Verse, "Wisdom" comes after "Book" as a separate word. Therefore it must refer to something different from the Book.
The Book is the Qur’an and the Wisdom is the Sunnah which expands on what is brief in the Book and clarifies its ambiguities, specifies what is unconditional and general and vice versa, so that general principles or specific rulings can be understood from what is commanded in the Qur’an.
The Qur’an in many verses enjoins absolute obedience to God’s Messengers. This obedience is not due to their person, but because of their mission as the ‘officials’ of God in guiding people to truth both individually and socially, materially, intellectually and spiritually.
We have not sent a Messenger save to be obeyed by God’s leave. (al-Nisa’, 4.64)
O you who believe! Obey God and His Messenger, and do not turn away from him. (al-Anfal, 8.20)
Obedience to God means unconditional obedience to His Commandments in the Qur’an and His laws in life and in the operation of the universe.
Obedience to the Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, is following his way in all the aspects of life, in practicing the Qur’an, and in all the orders of the Messenger besides the Qur’an.
The Sunnah contains all the orders and prohibitions, warnings and encouragements of God’s Messenger, who said: Take care! I have been given the Book and its like together with it.
Verse 20 of al-Anfal warns the Muslims not to turn away from the Messenger. Therefore, disobedience to the Sunnah, even belittling and criticizing it, amounts to heresy, even apostasy.
There are many other verses which emphasize the importance of the Sunnah, or following the ex-ample of God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings:
O you who believe! Obey God and obey the Messenger and those in authority from amongst you. (al-Nisa’, 4.59)
The verse stresses, besides obedience to God, obedience to God’s Messenger, and the repetition of the verb obey in the imperative mood points to the fact that the Messenger has the authority to command or forbid, and that the Muslims must carry out his commands and refrain from his prohibitions. Besides, where obedience to those in authority who share the same faith and feelings as the Muslims, is ordered, the Prophet has a far greater right to be obeyed.
Another verse:
Obey God and His Messenger and do not dispute with one another, lest you should be dissolved (dispersed) and your strength fade away; and be steadfast. (al-Anfal, 8.46)
According to this verse, the strength and unity of the Muslims lie in their submission to God and His Messenger. The Sunna is the unique way or example set by God’s Messenger for the Muslims to follow. Also, it is through the Sunnah that a Muslim can live according to the Qur’an. By putting the Qur’an into practice, God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, established the way which the Muslims must follow. From this viewpoint, the Sunnah is more comprehensive than the Qur’an and, without it, the Muslims cannot design their life according to the Qur’an. So, obedience to God is pos-sible by obeying the Messenger or by following his Sunnah. This is explicitly stated in the following verse:
Say (O Muhammad!): ‘If you love God, follow me so that God loves you.’ (Al ‘Imran, 3.31)
Love of God is impossible for one to acquire without following the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings. No one can claim love of God, nor can he be loved by God, unless he follows the Sunnah, the example of the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, as this is the main source of our religious life, promoted and encouraged by the Qur’an.
Allah says, (translation of the meaning)
It is not for any believer, man or woman, when God and His Messenger have decreed a matter, to have the choice in the affair. Whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error. (al-Ahzab, 33.36)
And He says,
".........Nothing have we omitted from the Book......." (6:38)
Indeed, He has not omitted from the Book that the Prophet was given the Book and the Wisdom.(al-Jumu‘a, 62.2)
And,
Al-Imran [3:164]
لَقَدْ مَنَّ اللّهُ عَلَى الْمُؤمِنِينَ إِذْ بَعَثَ فِيهِمْ رَسُولاً مِّنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَإِن كَانُواْ مِن قَبْلُ لَفِي ضَلالٍ مُّبِينٍ
3:164 Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.
The Qur’an also declares:
Nay, by your Lord, they will never become believers until they choose you as judge to settle the matters in dispute between them. (al-Nisa’, 4.65)
Edited by: aboosait on Monday, August 22, 2011 4:32 AM
Reply:- What does mean to say "Obey God & Obey the messenger" I explained this in detail several times in this forum. No need to explain again here. I am going to explain here what does mean to say 'Wisdom' as follows;-
The word Al-Hikmah (Wisdom) in the Quran does NOT mean the Hadith and Sunna
Due to the fact that the Quran does not contain any mention of the words ‘Sunna of Muhammad’, the followers of the sunna found it necessary to manipulate the meaning of some Quranic words so as to create a Quranic reference to the ‘hadith’ and ‘Sunna’. The word on which they base their claim is that of (Al-Hikmah) as found in a number of verses such as:
"Remember God’s blessings upon you, and what He sent down to you of the ‘Al-Kitab’ and ‘Al-Hikmah’ to enlighten you 'bihi' (with it)." 2:231
Literally speaking, the meaning of ‘Al-Kitab’ is the book (the Quran), and ‘Al-Hikmah’ is wisdom. One can look in any number of Arabic dictionaries and will always come up with the same meaning. Nevertheless, in an attempt to create a reference for the Sunna of Muhammad in the Quran, when there is none, these interpreters have claimed that the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ refers to the Sunna of Muhammad!
Basically, they are saying that God used the word 'wisdom' but in actual fact he did not mean 'wisdom', but instead He meant the Sunna! Any impartial reader must wonder, is God trying to be ambiguous? and if God meant to indicate the Sunna, why did He not just say the Sunna of Muhammad?
Moreover, would God lie to us? Would He be referring to the sunna of Muhammad in 2:231, but at the same time tell us that the ONLY sunna is the sunna of God (33:62, 35:43 and 48:23)?
With a close inspection of the Quranic verses, it can be shown that this interpretation is totally false:
1- The word ‘bihee’ (with it) that appear at the end of 2:231, is in the singular mode, in other words it describes one thing and not two. For that reason the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ must denote one thing and not two, unless of course God is making grammatical mistakes!
If the words ‘Al-Hikmah’ and ‘Al-Kitab’ really referred to the Quran and the Sunna, then the verse should grammatically end with the word ‘bihima’ (with them), which is the plural mode of ‘bihee’.
2- Throughout the Quran we are told that the only revelation sent down to Muhammad was the Quran. The personal sayings (hadith) of the prophet are not revelation, they are his own human words. Consequently, the words "what He sent down to you of the ‘Al-Kitab’ and ‘Al-Hikmah’ in 2:231 cannot denote the Quran and the Sunna, this is because the Sunna is not a revelation. The words "He sent down to you" make it clear that the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ cannot be speaking about the hadith of Muhammad.
3- The word ‘Al-Hikmah’ is used throughout the Quran as an adjective of the ‘Al-Kitab’ (the Quran). This is made evident in the following verses :
"Y.S., and the Quran Al-Hakim" 36:1-2
"A.L.R., these are the signs of the ‘Kitab Al-Hakim" 10:1 also 31:2
4- The same word ‘Al-Hikmah’ is used in the Quran in connection with prophets and messengers who lived before the time of Muhammad (P.B.U.H.). Obviously before Muhammad lived his Sunna did not exist. Thus to say that ‘Al-Hikmah’ means the Sunna of Muhammad is incorrect. Consider the following verses:
a- The following are God’s words to Jesus (P.B.U.H.):
"And I taught you the ‘Kitab’ (Scripture) and ‘Al-Hikmah’(wisdom)." 5:110
Clearly the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ here does not mean the Sunna of Muhammad.
b- The following were the words of Abraham (P.B.U.H.) as he implored his Lord:
"Our Lord, and send for them a messenger from among them to recite to them your ‘Ayat’ and teach them the ‘Kitab’ (Scripture) and ‘Al-Hikmah’ (wisdom)." 2:129
Again the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ here could not mean anything but wisdom. Abraham had no knowledge of the ‘Sunna’ of Muhammad.
5- A further evidence that the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ as used in the Quran means wisdom and not Sunna is found in the following verse:
"He bestows ‘Al-Hikmah’ upon whoever He pleases, and whoever attains ‘Al-Hekmah’ has indeed attained a great blessing." 2:269
The words "whoever He pleases" in this verse indicate that God bestows ‘Al-Hikmah’ upon any of the believers and not just His messengers. If we assume that ‘Al-Hikmah’ means the Sunna we would have to believe that any ordinary believer may also have his own personal Sunna that has to be followed by other believers! This of course is not the case. The verse would in stead make perfect sense if we accept the correct meaning of ‘Al-Hikmah’ which is wisdom.
6- In Sura 17, we are given a clear demonstration of the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ as being the ability to differentiate between right and wrong and the wisdom to choose what is right. If we read the verses from 22 to 39, we find God commanding us not to worship except Him, to honor our parents, to give due alms to our relatives, the needy, the poor, and the traveling alien but without being extravagant or stingy, not to kill our children for fear of poverty, not to commit adultery, nor to abuse the orphan’s money, to trade equitably and fairly, to verify everything before following it blindly and not to act vainly. After such valuable advice God informs us that these virtues are indeed what wisdom is all about.
In that sense ‘Al-Hikmah’ is not a book of ‘hadith’ (sayings) of one single person but instead a blessing which God gives His chosen servants.
7- Perhaps the simplest and most convincing reason for discarding the corrupted meaning of ‘Al-Hikmah’ so as to mean the Sunna, is the fact that God is neither vague nor fond of providing us with puzzles. God asserts that the Quran is straightforward, it contains no crookedness:
"An Arabic Quran, without any crookedness, that they may take heed." 39:28
Surely, had God willed that we should follow the teachings of the Quran plus the Sunna He would have mentioned the ‘Sunna of Muhammad’ explicitly in the Quran. Needless to say, the only Sunna that is mentioned in the Quran is the Sunna of God.
"This is the Sunna of God for those of the past, and you will find no alternative for the Sunna of God." 33:62
The Sunna of God is to be found in the Quran and previous Scripture.
Moreover if God had revealed to Muhammad an additional Sunna other than the Quran, as the Sunni’s would claim then we would expect God to say ‘We have revealed to you the Kitab (book) and the Sunna’ or words to that effect. Instead the only Revelation endorsed in the Quran is the Quran itself:
"And We have revealed to you the Kitab (the Quran) truthfully." 5:48
Indeed God takes an oath from His prophet of what was revealed to him. The oath contains nothing but the Quran:
"Say, ‘What is the greatest testimony?’ Say, ‘God is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed you bear witness that there are other gods beside God.’ Say, ‘I do not testify as you do; but surely He is one God, and I disown your idolatry." 6:19
Finally God commands the prophet to rule and arbitrate between the people with Quran and nothing but the Quran:
"We have sent down to you this Kitab, truthfully, in order to arbitrate between the people." 4:105
To conclude, the word ‘Al-Hikmah’ in any Arabic dictionary means wisdom. To leave the literal and direct meaning and accept a manipulated meaning is to reject the truth of the Quran. |
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