| Author | Topic |
Zulfee
USA
|
 Posted - Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 3:07 PM 
|
Zulfee
USA
|
Posted - Thursday, February 1, 2007 - 2:39 AM
|
raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
|
Posted - Thursday, February 1, 2007 - 2:17 PM
http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=292
The Quran mentions prophet Jesus(as) saying:
(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.” – [Quran 3:50]
Thus it is seen that Prophet Jesus(as) did bring a change in the law and thus is referred to as in the Quran as a Messenger. Prophet Ibrahim(as) did not bring a law but did receive a book and thus is referred to
as only a Prophet. |
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
 Posted - Thursday, February 1, 2007 - 7:24 PM
Quote: So the moderator also permits him to brand others as infidels, mutes, idiots and what not?
Please rest assure that such participants are under constant surviellance and if they continued to reflect in their postings that actually they are not interested in learning and understanding, rather just wasting their own and others' time and using inappropriate language, they shall be penalized as per the Disclaimer/Code of Conduct of these forums.Our Senior Members specially deserve due respect and consideration who, since a while have been positively contributing to our forums.
Studying Islam aims at healthy exchange of opinions in a secure and descent environment insh'Allah |
|
Zulfee
USA
|
Posted - Friday, February 2, 2007 - 5:35 PM
Mr. Biased Moderator,
quote:
they are not interested in learning and understanding, rather just wasting their own and others' time and using inappropriate language, they shall be penalized as per the Disclaimer/Code of Conduct of these forums.
Would you like to use the Disclaimer/Code of Conduct of these forums, if it is provided you the living references of your beloved rude and arrogant participants as you quoted?
quote:
Our Senior Members specially deserve due respect and consideration who, since a while have been positively contributing to our forums.
You are WRONG and telling a lie!!!
Edited by: Zulfee on Monday, February 19, 2007 4:08 PM |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Monday, February 5, 2007 - 9:26 AM
As informed earlier this post is being sent to the poster in order to summarize and resend or to send to Articles section please to be reviewed and uploaded if acceptable.
Thank you j.k.
Edited by: hkhan on Monday, February 05, 2007 9:21 PM |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Monday, February 5, 2007 - 9:31 AM
In continuation of previous reply......
Chapter 4/80: Whoever obeyed the messenger, so indeed he has obeyed Allah…
Traditional Muslims usually try to justify the use of Hadith by saying that Allah is obeyed by obeying Al-Quran, while the messenger is obeyed by obeying the Hadiths. But Hadiths just doesn’t fit in this verse(4:80) at all. If we suppose that ‘obeying the messenger’ indeed means ‘obeying the Hadiths’, then it would mean that whoever has obeyed Hadiths, by doing so he has obeyed Allah as well i.e. BOTH the messenger and Allah have been obeyed through the Hadith. And if that is true then what is the use of Al-Quran? This interpretation of theirs would mean that Al-Quran is useless.
Also, Al-Quran uses a singular pronoun when referring to Allah and the messenger:
Chapter 8/20: O those who believe! Obey Allah AND His messenger and do not turn back from HIM while you hear.
It means that obedience to both Allah and His messenger is the same thing, and both are obeyed through a single source. That source cannot be the Hadith.
to be continued.........
Samsher |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 9:34 AM
This post has been removed due to extensive length.
As requested before, please summarize and resend the post. Thank you
Moderator
Edited by: imran776 on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:25 PM |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 9:52 AM
This post has been sensored due to the usage of inappropriate language.
Participants are requested to mind their language and give due respect to other participants, otherwise kindly leave the forums.
Studying Islam aims to promote healthy exchange of views in a respectable environment keeping in view norms of manners.
Thank you and Assalamu alaykum.
Moderator
Edited by: imran776 on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:28 PM |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 9:55 AM
Salam to all,
In continuation of my reply to brother cares opinion…………..
Quote: y ? , was he not a human when he delivered God’s message? Or became angel during delivering the words of God.
MY REPLY:- Because then he did not speak out of his personal desire. (53:2-5). Brother please read Qur’an carefully and try to understand It before arguing with me.
Quote : it means u agree that when he judges right, we are bound to obey him?, then what this obediency is of Prophet Muhammad as personal.
MY REPLY:- This verse addressed to those women who seek ASYLUM with Muhammad. Muhammad is not alive now. Also no one can obey him now as personal. We can only obey his message i.e. Qur’an.
My Quote: Qur’an never says about any un-recited revelation, taking them as religious source and Qur’an never says about hadith, sunnah(fabricated and attributed them to Muhammad), taking them as religious source.
your Reply: (un-recited revelations, i have quoted ur own said stat. abt Shouab & Hood, Plz give response),
MY REPLY :- I have already said all about the subject. Messengers who do not bring a new scripture promote the previous scripture. They reform the distortions and invite their people to monotheism with wisdom and evidence.
Quote: Obedincy of Prophet Muhammad brought these things i.e sunnah, hadith, and obedience of him, is our religious source mentioned in several places of Holy Quran.
MY REPLY:- Please provide only one place where you found that Qur’an supports your whims.
The only religious source of Islam is Qur’an and nothing else(6:114-115). Qur’an does not mention any Sunnah of Muhammad. It says only about Almighty Allah’s Sunnah. Also Qur’an does say anything about fabricated hadith of Muhammad. It says only about Itself.
Samnsher |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 9:57 AM
In continuation to brother cares opinion.......
Quote: Here people are told about a prophet who is standing among them, Allah is reminding them the previous covenant with previous prophets. If I here agree that prophet Muhammad was included yet, it does not mean, that the next “ afterward” messenger is not Muhammad.
Suppose brother, u know that Allah took covenant from all people also, yet people are coming or taking birth on this earth after one by one.
If prophet Muhammad was also included in this covenant yet he has to come at his time, because he was called a prophet at that time. And u agreed that every prophet is also a messenger. Because according to u, u can call a prophet a messenger. Is’nt?(I think u will try to understand, because I coud not explain it more fully because of less vocabulary).
MY REPLY:- 3:81 clearly says that the covenant was taken from the PROPHETS. As Muhammad was a prophet, it is logical to think that Muhammad was also included in this covenant.
2ndly, If Almighty Allah took this covenant from previous prophets(excluding Muhammad) as you opined then HE would not have said Muhammad that “GOD took a covenant from the PROPHETS” as he was also a prophet. This simply means that GOD took this covenant also from Muhammad.
"God took a covenant from the PROPHETS, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. AFTERWARDS, a MESSENGER will come to CONFIRM all existing scriptures…”
Here the word AFTERWARDS is very indicative. It clearly means that after all the Scriptures & Prophets, a messenger will come to confirm the scripture… So this messenger will not be a prophet or not bring any new scripture. He will only come to confirm the scripture, which is the duty of this particular messenger.
Moreover, Muhammad did not come to confirm the scriptures. He came to deliver a new scripture i.e. Qur’an. So he was not the messenger about whom this verse 3:81 says. Verse 33:7 also confirms that Prophet Muhammad was also included in this covenant of 3:81.
Now please see if I translate the verse 3:81 according to your whims, then let us see what will be the meaning of the verse;
“GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, Muhammad will come to confirm all existing scriptures( not deliver a new scripture) You(including Muhammad because he was a prophet) shall believe in him(Muhammad) and support him(Muhammad) {that means Muhammad believed & support on himself}" He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They(including Muhammad) said, "We agree."(that means Muhammad was also agreed the above covenant that he supports & believed on himself!!!!) He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."
ILLOGICAL!!!!! I have no language to explain your logic except ILLOGICAL.
Samsher |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 9:59 AM
In continuation of my reply to brother cares opinion
Quote: Brother u think that for taking covenant, is it necessary, that all should be gathered at a time, no brother It is not nessary,
Supose brother, Allah took covenant from Noah (as) hundred thousands years ago, when he was sent to his nation, after more thousands years later, Allah took covenant from Abraham, when he was sent to his nation, after the few years later Allah took covenant from Jesus (as) so… then here in last, can Allah not say that he took covenants from the prophets? Is’nt. (this is just for argument sake example) where as I believe that this was a reminder mentioned in as future tense as brother Usmani explained very well.
MY REPLY:- Then according to your same logic after 500 + years later Almighty God took the covenant from Muhammad. Isn’t ?
2ndly, Almighty Allah took the covenant from US also (as you opined). Then according to your logic Almighty God took this covenant separately from you from me…..from all people past, present one by one and will be taken from future people one by one. Isn’t? What a logic!!!
What mr. Usmani explained is nothing but conjecture as you explained.
Quote:- In last i would like to say that if any one has still a dout to follow Sunnah, he should read all pages of this forum, he will find that brother samsher is failed to prove the Quran only sorece for guiadance of humankind.
MY REPLY :- Blind can’t see the light. Let us see what Qur’an says;
[2:1-5] A.L.M. THIS SCRIPTURE IS INFALLIBLE; A BEACON FOR THE RIGHTEOUS; who believe in the unseen, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and from our provisions to them, they give to charity. And they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and with regard to the Hereafter, they are absolutely certain. These are guided by their Lord; these are the winners.
[6:114] SHALL I SEEK OTHER THAN GOD AS A SOURCE OF LAW, WHEN HE HAS REVEALED TO YOU THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
[6:115] The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, IN TRUTH AND JUSTICE. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
[2:97] Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, AND PROVIDING GUIDANCE AND GOOD NEWS FOR THE BELIEVERS."
[2:185] Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, PROVIDING GUIDANCE FOR THE PEOPLE, CLEAR TEACHINGS, AND THE STATUTE BOOK. Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein. Those who are ill or traveling may substitute the same number of other days. GOD wishes for you convenience, not hardship, that you may fulfill your obligations, and to glorify GOD for guiding you, and to express your appreciation.
[16:64] We have revealed this scripture to you, to point out for them what they dispute, and TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE AND MERCY FOR PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE.
[16:89] The day will come when we will raise from every community a witness from among them, and bring you as the witness of these people. WE HAVE REVEALED TO YOU THIS BOOK TO PROVIDE EXPLANATIONS FOR EVERYTHING, AND GUIDANCE, AND MERCY, AND GOOD NEWS FOR THE SUBMITTERS.
[10:37] This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD. It confirms all previous messages, AND PROVIDES A FULLY DETAILED SCRIPTURE. IT IS INFALLIBLE, FOR IT COMES FROM THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE.
[17:9] THIS QURAN GUIDES TO THE BEST PATH, AND BRINGS GOOD NEWS TO THE BELIEVERS WHO LEAD A RIGHTEOUS LIFE, that they have deserved a great recompense.
[41:1-3] H. M. A revelation from the Most Gracious, Most Merciful. A SCRIPTURE WHOSE VERSES PROVIDE THE COMPLETE DETAILS, IN AN ARABIC QURAN, for people who know.
Brother, I don’t see any difference between you and an idolworshiper.
[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, USING THE QURAN ALONE, they run away in aversion.
Lastly I want to convey you the following message;
[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
Bye………..
Samsher Ali |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 11:37 AM
Salam,
Reply: Surely u will be busy in finding/collecting R.K's more articals/stuffs in suport of ur own whims, I also will try to reply u in a better way If I know ur complete replies ...Inshalllah
MY REPLY:- Brother I replied to your whims by using only Qur’an. If you think that I am wrong, then prove yourself by using only Qur'an and not by using garbage(i think) like fabricated hadith. Moreover, I have already given my reply to your same idiotic questions, may be raised by some other person named as usmani……, before. It is not possible for me to give the reply to the same idiotic questions again and again. Whatever may be, this time I already gave my reply to your whims once again. Please read that.
Oh…. Your reply? you could not yet provide any quranic verse in support of your whims till date rather conjecture. When you will be able to provide reference from the Qur'an, you pl. tell me, I shall Inshallah response you.
Till then good bye…..
Samsher |
|
JunaidHasan
GERMANY
|
Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 11:50 AM
Question: "Please tell me first which book(s) according to your opinion claimed that it was/they were from God?
Samsher"
Answer: Bible claims that it is from God in the following way:
"All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice."
Timothy 3:16 |
|
cares
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 1:11 PM
The post has been removed due to execcive length. Please summarize and resend.However if it remains more than A4 page size, please send to Articles section for review.
If you wish to have a copy your post back, it can be sent via email.
Thank you
Moderator
Edited by: imran776 on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:31 PM |
|
cares
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 1:27 PM
Salam all,
Brother Zulfi,
Quote: A very immature question!!! With best intentions, again go through whole of this forum from first to the last page, you will do find the solid confirmation,
Reply: hmm, u are unable to provide the proof what I ask, I again ask how do u understand that this verse fit for any one…. I went through this forum my mature brother, try to understand.
Quote: What a whimsical and baseless statement is!!! Bring the single verse of Noble Qura’n, which support Obeying Mohammad, which is NOT same as Obeying the messenger. The difference between Obeying Mohammad and Obeying the messenger is very simple but the SHIELD of God prevents you to understand.
Reply: You people will not even become satisfied if it would have been written “ Obey Muhammad”, because u r unable to understand the sense of OBEYING A MESSENGER, Brother before saying this, do u think a little bit, that how a person (Muhammad) can be obeyed for a long time of period for all human being, I think then Allah surely should have given him a LONG LIFE. But this is not the matter, MESSAGE IN ANY SHAPE either scriptures, practices, sayings …etc can be obeyed for a long time. Do u understand?
Quote: Because he could not leave the religion of his forefathers like the so called muslims of today can not leave the fabricated hadith based ideas of their forefathers
Reply: what about ur next generations, what u r following now, tomorrow all this will be religion of forefathers of ur children, and Hadiths of R.K. if u start to follow all this.
Quote: usmani790, Cares, hkhan, raushan and the others……
As said by sksamshirali, your conclusions and beliefs are absolutely whimsical and baseless, because of having NO reference in the the Qur’an.
Reply: brother, I see most of the time that every people in this forum calls eachothers “ THAT THEY ARE WHIMSICAL” for God sake brother, solve this problem if u have any knowledge..but I see u have also no answer to this yet, bcz u r also one of them.
Cares… |
|
 Reply to Topic 
Printer Friendly |
| Jump To: |
|
|
|