| Author | Topic |
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
 Posted - Monday, August 27, 2007 - 10:07 AM 
Salam brother,
Q:- Despite your best efforts bro you are unable to give us any proof of how you would say namaz from Qur'an and we keep getting long links after links. please deliberate on your answers.
Reply:- I have already given you the Qur’anic proof in details regarding the above. But you find something that is not in the Qur’an, so I can’t give you these non-qur’anic, non-islamic proofs for the above.
Q:- and would be grateful if you answer the question asked. No muslim is challanging the importance and role of Qur'an in the lives of muslims.it is mezan furqan and burhaan.
Reply:- I gave you this through my previous post and hope that you will find this, if you wish.
Brother, what is the ROLE OF QUR’AN in the lives of Muslim according to you? What does mean to say FURQAN brother?
Samsher. |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:11 AM
Salam to All,
Once again I am sending this post, please read it carefully.
Are we accountable to what was decreed for Abraham?
The Quran confirms that the practices of Islam are older than the Quran:
"We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat). To us, they were devoted worshipers."21:73
According to 21:73 and other verses we are told that the rituals of Islam are older than the Quran and that they were indeed first given to Abraham. However, the words in the verse do NOT say that what we have inherited today, or what was practised at the time of Muhammad, are the pure rituals as given to Abraham without being corrupted.
To analyse the truth of whether we are accountable to what was decreed for Abraham and those before us it is necessary to read the following verse:
"Then We revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed different ‘Shira’a wa minhaja’ (laws and rites). Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To God is your final destiny-all of you-then He will inform you of everything you had disputed." 5:48
Here we note 3 very important messages:
1-
"We revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations"
These words confirm that we are commanded to follow what was revealed to us (Quran) and NOTHING else ….. In this verse the Quran is given the function of "confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them" ……. This asserts the fact that what was given to those before us has now been replaced by the Quran. We are thus accountable only to what is revealed to us (Quran) …. And not what was given to Abraham or the others. To insist that we are following rituals that we inherited from as far back as Abraham is in violation of the words "superseding them" that describe the Quran in 5:48
2-
The words "For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites." tell us that the rituals given to each people (including us) are not identical to the ones given to those before them. As a result, and although we all follow the same creed of Monotheism and submission to God (Islam), yet the specific rituals and practices are different for different people.
3-
Moreover, the words "He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you." tell us a truly important matter. Here we are told that even though some (or all) of the rituals may have been passed down to us from those who came before us, yet God will test us and hold us accountable by means of the revelation He revealed to us (Quran) and NOT what was given to those before us. According to these words in 5:48, we shall be tested by the laws, regulations and rites that were given to us in the Quran, and NOT what we inherited from those before us.
Not only did God inform us that each people were given a different set of ‘Shira’a wa minhaja’ (laws), but also that every people were given different RITUALS:
"For each congregation, we have decreed 'Mansakan' (set of rituals/rites) that they must uphold. Therefore, they should not dispute with you. You shall continue to invite everyone to your Lord. Most assuredly, you are on the right path." 22:67.
We note that the word 'Mansakan', which is used in this verse, is different from the words which are used in 5:48. While as the words ‘Shira’a wa minhaja’ may be related to the laws explaining the methodology of performing the rituals, the word 'Mansakan' is speaking of the RITUALS themselves. We are told that these are not the same for different people. Consequently to claim that we are to follow the exact rituals that were given to Abraham is in violation with 22:67.
Now let us take a closer a look at verses 67 to 72 of Sura 22:
"For each 'ummah' (nation), we have decreed 'Mansakan' (set of rituals/rites) that they must uphold. Therefore, they should not dispute with you. You shall continue to invite everyone to your Lord. Most assuredly, you are on the right path.
If they argue with you, then say, "God is fully aware of everything you do."
God will judge among you on the Day of Resurrection regarding all your disputes.
Do you not realize that God knows everything in the heavens and everything on earth? All this is recorded in a record. This is easy for God to do.
To be continued….. |
|
rimsoo
INDIA
|
Posted - Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:11 AM
The Hadith, in Islam, is second in authority only to the Qur'an. It is a record of the prophet Mohammed's (pbuh) life, actions, and deeds. A saying in the Hadith is called a sunnah. These sunnah were transmitted by word of mouth down through the centuries having been memorized first by prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) companions and then later by subsequent Muslims. Therefore, the hadith is the written record of the oral traditions passed down from Muslim to Muslim of what the prophet Mohammed (pbuh) was supposed to have said and done.
The Ahadith fall into two categories, "Hadith Qudsi (sacred hadith) in which Allah (God) himself is speaking in, as it were, a complementary revelation through the prophet, and Hadith Sharif (noble hadith), the prophet's own acts and utterances." [The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, Harper & Row, Publishers, Inc. San Francisco, 1989, page 141.]
The most famous and universally accepted among the six collections of Hadith are those of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.
The Hadith are important because they elucidate many areas not covered by or were not very clear in the Qur'an. The Hadith is appealed to in legal decisions and consulted in debate among many Muslims. |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:12 AM
In continuation to the previous page…
Yet, they idolize beside God idols wherein He placed no power, and they know nothing about them. The transgressors have no helper.
When our revelations are recited to them, clearly, you recognize wickedness on the faces of those who disbelieve. They almost attack those who recite our revelations to them. Say, "Shall I inform you of something much worse? Hell is promised by God for those who disbelieve; what a miserable destiny."
We Note from these glorious verses a number of important messages:
1- As mentioned the word 'Mansakan' speaks of rituals and how they are not the same for every people.
2- The words "If they argue with you, then say, "God is fully aware of everything you do" are indeed very significant. The question is 'why would the disbelievers argue with the believers in this context?' ..... the reply is that they will argue with them because the believers choose to follow the rites given in the Quran and NOTHING else? .... the believers are NOT interested in rites that are inherited to them and labelled (came from Abraham)! ...... the believers believe God .... they are content that the Quran contains ALL the religion they must follow.
3- These words are then followed by yet equally potent words, these are:
"Yet, they idolize beside God idols wherein He placed no power, and they know nothing about them. The transgressors have no helper.."
With these words God is stamping His seal on those people that they are idolising others beside God. All those who do not believe God when He confirms that the Quran contains all our religion with ALL the details, regardless of what was decreed for those before us or what we inherited, they are indeed transgressors. They are following rules and rites from outside the Quran, thus they have set up other gods to follow besides God.
If we take a look at the verses leading to 5:48 we note that God holds each receivers of a Scripture accountable only to what they were given in their Scripture, and not to what was given to those before them:
In 5:44 we read that God gave the prophets of Israel the Torah and commanded them to rule with it (Yahkum biha) ..... the last words in the verse give this warning : (those who do not rule with God's revelations are the disbelievers) ....
Then in verse 46 God says that He gave Jesus the Injeel and once again (in verse 47) God repeats the warning He gave to the receivers of the Injeel, the warning about those who do not rule in accordance with the revelation given to them .....
Then (in verses 48 and 49) God tells Muhammad that He gave him the Quran and that he should rule (Bima Anzal Allah) ..... the very first words in verse 48 confirm that (ma Anzal Allah) means the Quran (Kitaab) and nothing else .....
This time the warning of ruling with God's revelations is repeated for us TWICE .... in verse 48 and once again in the first words of verse 49 .......
This warning, together with the confirmation that the Quran supersedes the older Scripture (5:48), confirm that we are not required to follow the previous Scripture which are the source of previous rituals, nor any accounts of what we have inherited, we are only to follow the Quran.
Furthermore, the Quran gives us the the message of our accountability to the Quran (and nothing else) on Judgement in very clear words in the following verse:
"This (Quran) is a message for you and your people which you shall all be accountable to" 43:44
"Such is a community from the past. They are responsible for what they earned, and you are responsible for what you earned. You are not answerable for anything they have done." 2:134
"That was a community from the past. They are responsible for what thay earned, and you are responsible for what you earned. You are not answerable for anything they did." 2:141
The message of these two verses is once again loud and clear. We are not answerable to anything done by those before us, they had their rules and rites and we have ours.
To be continued….. |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:15 AM
In continuation to the previous page…
Does the Quran authorise us to take the inherited rituals as a second source of law besides the Quran?
Once again, this is the claim of some Muslims. They say that the Quran alone is not sufficient for a believer to practice his/her religion but one must also uphold the inherited rituals. But still they claim that they follow the Quran alone!
They justify this by saying that all the practices of Islam (Salat, Zakat …etc) were first given to Abraham ….
This is quite true, no one will dispute this fact. However, there is a massive difference between God telling us that Islam is as old as Abraham, and between God telling us to accept what we inherited of rituals as a second source of law besides the Quran!
The first issue that Islam is as old as Abraham is a Quranic fact, it is not disputed. The second issue, which is the legality of us accepting our inherited rituals as a second source of laws besides the Quran is totally unsupported by any Quranic evidence.
For a start, the claim that the rituals have been preserved and passed down to us from the time of Abraham is absolutely without ANY Quranic support. Nowhere in the Quran do we read of such preservation. If anything, we are (and still are everyday) discovering how the rituals we inherited are full of corruption! The only thing guaranteed preservation is the Quran itself (15:9).
God NEVER promised to preserve anything but the Quran. Any claim otherwise is no more than a human innovation.
We must always remember that the Quran is all we need FOR SALVATION .....
We are told in 2:38 that God's offer to redeem mankind involved sending us ‘Hoda’ (guidance), and that the ones who will accept this guidance, which in verse 2:39 is connected to ‘Ayat Allah’ (God’s revelations) will be redeemed while those who reject it will end up in hell ......
We are told that God sent us the ‘Hoda’ (guidance) through the Quran (27:2 , 31:3). We are also told that the guidance was given to the previous people in the previous Scripture (3:4) ......
After God has given us the exact duty of the Quran (and all the other scripture) , that being to give us the means for salvation, God tells us that the Quran contains everything ....... it is only logical to understand the completeness of the Quran in relationship to its function, which is to give us the guidance and means for salvation. To attain salvation and redeem our souls in God's heaven (In Sha Allah) we only need the (menhaj) (rules and laws) that are set for us, and NOT the menhaj that was given to those before us ........ in 5:48, we are told that our menhaj is the Quran and not the rituals or Scripture given to Abraham or the others.
Samsher |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:22 AM
in 5:48, we are told that our menhaj is the Quran and not the rituals or Scripture given to Abraham or the others.
Samsher |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 7:46 AM
Salam brother,
Please go through the links below;
http://www.submission.org/quran.html
Samsher
quote:
Salam brother Samsher
quote:
Excellent Brother Rakhtal.
Samsher
Thanks a lot, brother Samsher!
Many days ago, in this forum, I asked you this question (see below) but no reply was seen yet.
Is there any Qura’n software having the complete translation and explanation by Rashad Khalifa?
|
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 7:56 AM
R dear
ps that the practices of the prophet sws have reached us through the practices of the generations in day to day life. and this does not depend on hadith.
ii. Sunnah does not depend on Hadith
Again, since the Sunan are practices relating to essential and inevitable
occasions of our lives, they are received, learnt and acquired from the living traditions in the society. Every Muslim born in this Ummah observes these
practices in a concrete and real form and learns them from his elders, teachers and Muslims at large.
We do not need to learn Sunnah from books. Sunnah is, as we have stated earlier, a real, living tradition which is ubiquitous in the Muslim Ummah, It is not hidden anywhere and it is extremely easy to understand because
it does not consist of concepts and opinions. If there were no books on H~adi#th, the Sunnah would have still been there with the same authenticity and same clarity.
And now when we have the Sunnah and the Hadith literature side by side with us,
we do not need the confirmation of Sunnah from the books on H~adith. Instead we would confirm the authenticity of Hadith from comparison with the Sunnah.
If we study how a common Muslim learns to offer daily prayers, we would
immediately know that when he is born, or converted, he finds that daily prayers are being offered in the community by a large number of people. Even those who do not pray do know the formal method to pray. A young Muslim or a new entrant to this faith learns how to offer his daily prayers from the society – from his elders
and teachers. He does not learn about the method and procedure of this mandatory worship from books on history or Hadith.
This is perfectly in line with the wishes of God and his Prophet (sws).
The Holy Prophet (sws) did not make any arrangements for recording his sayings. He only ensured that two things should be preserved and communicated:
• The body of words and sounds contained in the Holy Qur’an
• The body of practices constituting the Sunnah
And it is within these two that the entire Islam is preserved. Islam like most of other religions consists of two components – beliefs and practices. The beliefs have been succinctly stated in the Holy Qur’an while the practices are embodied in the Sunnah.
According to the Muslim ideology, if we want to find out the Sunan, we should
look for them in the traditions and practices of Muslim Ummah and not in the
books of history. |
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 8:00 AM
the chain of the messengers begins from Adam sws and ends at Muhammad sws(peace be upon all of them) who brought the message of prosperity for the humanity.
may we all be able to follow them in sincerity and find success in both the worlds. amen
'....This means that the Holy Prophet (sws) has the authority to legislate in his capacity as the Messenger of Allah. The fact that we do have the Holy Qur’an with us does not place any limits on the Holy Prophet’s authority to legislate. The authority of the Holy Prophet (sws) to legislate is independent of the laws contained in the Holy Qur’an,except that all his law making is based on the authority given to him in the Holy Qur’an and is confined to such limits. It would be a blasphemy to think that he could not institute any religious teachings in his capacity of the Messenger of
Allah. However all such instructions of the Holy Prophet (sws) that add to the
content of the Di'n as contained in the Holy Qur’an, must come down to us
through Tawatur and Ijma (consensus) of the Companions of the Holy Prophet
(sws).
(adapted from Studying Islam courses) |
|
sksamsherali
INDIA
|
Posted - Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 9:09 AM
Sis henna,
Please refrain from telling tall talk and try to give answers of my simple questions which I had already asked you several times through my posts, which you avoided.
You told about the practical model of Messenger!! Sis. what was it?? Was not it that He obeyed and followed Only the Almighty God’s words (Qur’an) in his life??? Was not it that he Took/Accepted the Qur’an as his Only Religious Source of Law? Had he not believed that Qur’an is Fully Detailed, Complete???(6:114-115, 12:111). Had he not believed 5:48-49??? Had he not preached Using the Qur’an Alone(17:46)??? If yes, then, for an example, had he ever been offered his daily Salat prayer by maintaining Mixed Tones as present days’ Muslims (may be including you) offer their daily salat e.g. Juhr(noon) & Asr(afternoon) salat by maintaining total Silence, Maghrib(evening) & Esha(night) salat by maintaining Mixed tones(some parts in maintaining audible tone and some parts in maintaining silence tone) completely violating the Qur’anic rules(17:110)????
I hope you shall give the answer of the above question at least at this time, if you are truthful.
[17:9] This Quran guides to the best path, and brings good news to the believers who lead a righteous life, that they have deserved a great recompense.
[3:20] If they argue with you, then say, "I have simply submitted myself to GOD; I and those who follow me." You shall proclaim to those who received the scripture, as well as those who did not, "Would you submit?" If they submit, then they have been guided, but if they turn away, your sole mission is to deliver this message. GOD is Seer of all people.
[5:99] The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message, and GOD knows everything you declare and everything you conceal.
[25:30] The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
Samsher. |
|
Rakhtal
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 12:39 PM
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
 Posted - Sunday, September 2, 2007 - 7:24 AM
sk all the references to the Q you ask have been given repeatedly in these forums as well as the courses we offer on this site-only if you really wish to know   |
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Sunday, September 9, 2007 - 2:26 PM
the religion could never be complete without the teachings of the prophets.and these perpetuated practices have been one of the basic sources of Islam and other Divine religions in every age and time.rather the religions besides them have alsobeen highly influenced by such- which travelled down as stories, sayings or practices of their leaders.
Section IV: Prophets and Messengers
The envoys of God who have brought this religion are called “Prophets”. A study of the Qur’an shows that besides being assigned the position of “Prophethood” (nabuwwah), some of them were also assigned the position of “Messengerhood” (risalah).
“Prophethood” means that a person after receiving divine revelation teaches the truth to his addressees, and gives glad tidings of a good fate in the Hereafter to those who accept the truth and warns those among them who reject it that a bad fate awaits them. In the terminology of the Qur’an, giving such glad tidings is called basharah and giving such warnings is called indhar:
كَانَ النَّاسُ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً فَبَعَثَ اللّهُ النَّبِيِّينَ مُبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ (213:2)
Mankind was once one community. [Then differences arose between them]. So God sent forth prophets as bearers of glad tidings and as warners. (2:213)
“Messengerhood” means that a prophet is assigned to his people such that he decides their fate through divine sanction so that if they reject him, he practically enforces the sovereignty of the truth upon them by implementing on them God’s Judgement in this very world:
وَقَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لِرُسُلِهِمْ لَنُخْرِجَنَّـكُم مِّنْ أَرْضِنَآ أَوْ لَتَعُودُنَّ فِي مِلَّتِنَا فَأَوْحَى إِلَيْهِمْ رَبُّهُمْ لَنُهْلِكَنَّ الظَّالِمِينَ وَلَنُسْكِنَنَّـكُمُ الأَرْضَ مِن بَعْدِهِمْ (14: 13-14)
And these disbelievers said to their Messengers: “We will drive you out of our land, or you return to our religion.” At this, their Lord revealed to them [– the Messengers –]: “Indeed, We shall cause the wrong-doers to perish! And indeed, We shall cause you to abide in this land after them.” (14:13-14)
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُحَادُّونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ أُوْلَئِكَ فِي الأَذَلِّينَ كَتَبَ اللَّهُ لَأَغْلِبَنَّ أَنَا وَرُسُلِي إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ (58: 20-21)
Indeed those who are opposing Allah and His Messenger shall be humiliated. The Almighty has ordained: “I and My Messengers shall always prevail. Indeed Allah is Mighty and Powerful.” (58:20-21)
Adapted from the SI Course Religion of Islam-based on the book 'Mezan' written by the patron of this site. |
|
StudentAffairs
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 1:45 PM
We are sorry to say that we had to delete the last post of sksamsher because he has just posed the same questions with pressurizing sentences despite sending the replies repeatedly in the past; and looking at the previous 53 pages or so, it is now clearly visible that the space has been used by this member repeatedly copying and pasting material from rishad khilafa's website who does not believe in anyof the prophet's teachings as a source of religion. studying islam has a tolerant policy for various schools of thought but there has to be a line drawn; enough space has been allowed- as we had to write to sk in the following. besides some other members have also been restricted from the forums due to the violation of the code of conduct onforums and causing trouble to other members who complained.
Presently the restricted members are
Rakhtal
Dalmir
We request the restricted members not to re enter with changed I.D.s unless they try and abide by the basic rules of interaction.
Other members may continue their discussion, hopefully in a better atmosphere.
Thank you.
"To sksamsherali
assalamu alaykum
Firstly as for your repeated Questions on forums and what you are asking has been repeatedly replied in the previous pages by our moderators as well as our offered courses. The moderators of the site are not obliged to keep repeating answers on demand because they are working and professional people who are giving voluntary service and cannot be pressurized unnecessarily. If you have concerns you may write directly to query@studying-islam.org and do not at all try to bully or harass our moderators.
Secondly, for the details re: Qur'an and Sunnah we have repeatedly referred to our course 'Understanding the Sunnah' and all the courses regarding Qur'an including Arrangement, History, Revelation and others.
A true seeker will find all the replies from there; as for the rest who just come in for 'munazra' (arguement only for the sake of arguement and not understanding) , then Studying Islam is not the place for them ; who is struggling against this fitna in the ummah which is preventing them to learn and understand concepts which could be different from their understanding.
However even such munazra promoters are allowed here for a certain time to convey their munazra and preaching- rather a lot as you can see on the 54 pages forum and the rest of our forums, which proves the generous policy of Studying Islam re: freedom of talk and expression-and then we sadly have to restrict them as after that they can continue their munazra and preaching at other sites or their own site. Studying Islam should not be taken for granted for such aimless activity.
In the wider interest of the site,we have to take such steps.
We have therefore restricted you from the Studying Islam forums. Therefore please do not attempt to re-enter. Because Studying Islam really does not have time to argue just for the sake of ego and competition.
best wishes
Dept. of Student Affairs
www.studying-islam.org" |
|
StudentAffairs
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 11:11 AM
We request our members to ignore any cyber bullying as follows. Such emails are being received by our Query service, Admin and various email addresses related to Studying Islam :
Dear Studentaffairs
You are also fled from my question lik your moderators. haa...haa....haa...Your moderators could not give any logical answers of my repeated questions from the Qur'an, because they do not follow the Qur'an. They have no faith on ONL QURAN. They follow Garbage like hadith, sunnah(fabricated), ijma, twatur...etc. etc.. So I have nothing to learn from you type of people or from your garbage like course. You are spreading false teachings which have no relation with the teachings of Prophet Muhammad. So don't beat yours own trumpet by saying that Rashad Khalifa does not believe any of the prophet's teachings etc...etc... Rather you are the people who do not believe the teachings of Prophet Muhammad, which was only the Qur'an and nothing else.
One more thing, as I can't enter your forum, because you restricted me so if you have any courage or if you are not coward then you should take necessary steps so that this post of mine may display in the concerned discussion forum as my last post.
Good bye.........
Sk Samsher Ali, India. |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:48 AM
quote:
We request our members to ignore any cyber bullying as follows...............
Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmathullah.
I have been ignoring your alerts on this thread at my e-mail id since quite sometime.
quote:
Posted by Sk Samsher Ali, India.................take necessary steps so that this post of mine may display in the concerned discussion forum as my last post..............
To sksamsherali: May this be your last post.
quote:
StudentAffairs UNITED KINGDOM
To sksamsherali……………………….We have therefore restricted you from the Studying Islam forums. Therefore please do not attempt to re-enter………………………..
To StudentAffairs: Congratulations...Right decision..........der aaye, durust aaye.
quote:
Sksamsherali INDIA Posted - Monday, August 27, 2007 - 9:50 AM
It is also interesting that all those who praise the name of Muhammad day and night say that they do this because God loves Muhammad so much and therefore this will bring them closer to God!
Al-Ahzab [33:56]
إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَمَلَائِكَتَهُ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا صَلُّوا عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا
33:56 Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect. |
|
 Reply to Topic 
Printer Friendly |
| Jump To: |
|
|
|