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Naheed Akhtar
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Saturday, December 1, 2007 - 11:17 PM 
THE PROPHET'S HANDS ARE GONE
THE PROPHET'S EXAMPLE LIVES ON |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, December 4, 2007 - 2:28 AM
quote:
........... BUT plz Give me some time to Research ................I hope I'll be able to say some v soon After the Eid.
Assalamu Alaikum.
Still waiting for the results of your research.
By the way who are these 'Arabs' that say "ramadhaan kareem", aare they scholars or laymen? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, December 4, 2007 - 2:44 AM
........
And "huzoor", "sadqe tufail se" ertc. are urdu words. How many of the Urdu speaking people who use these words regularly know the actual meaning of these words and phrases?
"huzoor" means one is very much present in front of you. Dont the Mullas of Ind-Pak region use this word to represent the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam? Do they use the word without knowing its meaning or do they believe that Rasoolullah is still roaming about with multiple presence on the surface of the earth?
Secondly, the whole creation is at the mercy of the creator (His sadqe tufail se). Now you can see Urdu speaking Mullas raising their hands in supplication and asking the creator to accept their prayer through the intercession of the saints and the dead. Would you say "ameen" to such dua if you knew the meaning of "sadqe tufail se"??
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, December 6, 2007 - 9:49 AM
quote:
Assalamu Alaikum.
Still waiting for the results of your research.
By the way who are these 'Arabs' that say "ramadhaan kareem", aare they scholars or laymen?
wa Alaikum us Salaam Dear
I'm so Sorry that I forgot my this Promise Due to my some NEW assignments & Now I might NOT be able to Spare some time to Research on this Topic in this year at least.
Surely they are Common People of Arab BUT their Scholors have said NOTHING against it. Have U heard something from ARAB Scholors??
I'll comment on ur NEXT post after a while. |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Monday, May 26, 2008 - 1:33 PM
| I disagree with sksamshirali not one hundred percent. |
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loraha
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 4:32 AM
| I fully agree with the views of this website Studying Islam and give my regards to it's founder. May he live long life. I pray that Allah makes them successful in their ventures because this is the only hope for the dying nation of Muslims.ammeen. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, August 25, 2008 - 11:01 AM
quote:
brahim Moderator PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 9:49 AM
....................I'll comment on ur NEXT post after a while.
Assalamualaykum.
I lost track of this thread as I was busy in other activities and was unable to visit this site for so many months.
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 9:40 AM
quote:
For members information:
The above username Bhavitar with various repeated registrations writes him-herself as a Hindu believer from India, Bhalwal Das and Sohna Das. One wonders why this member and others like SK are interested in the matter of Qur'an and Sunnah whilst persistently rejecting the teachings of the prophets(peace be upon them)and promotong the website of Rashad Khalafa on an Islamic site like this one.
Members are therefore requested to ignore them without wasting their time replying to these.
This is a similar attempt to the ones we have had in the past to cause harm to the purpose of the site but alhamdulillah our educational activities continue in the form of our offered courses.
who informed you that SK is a Hindu? Members of this forum are requested to refrain form listening such advice as advised and should argu with logic and not to condemn each other by saying this & that |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 3:05 PM
Ibrahim PAKISTAN Posted - Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 9:49 AM quote:
Surely they are Common People of Arab BUT their Scholors have said NOTHING against it. Have U heard something from ARAB Scholors??
Please scroll back to the previous page. I wrote quote:
Someone asked Sheikh Al-Uthaymeen (rahimahullah) about saying Ramadan Kareem. He answered: A. The ruling of that is that the statement 'Ramadan kareem' is not correct. Rather it should be said 'Ramadan Mubarak',….
Sheikh Abu 'Abd Allah Muhammad ibn Saalih ibn Muhammad ibn al-Uthaymeen at-Tamimi an-Najdi(1929–2001 CE) was one of the most prominent Sunni Islamic scholars of the latter half of the twentieth century. Born in Saudi Arabia, he memorised the Qur'an at an early age and studied under some of the most knowledgeable scholars of the time |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:07 AM
To those who claim that no source other than Quran should be trusted:
Assalamu 'Alaikum.
Kindly go through the verses in which Allah commands us to obey His messenger:
[2:285] The Messenger (Muhammad SAW) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)."
[3:32] Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers.
[3:50] And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me.
[3:132] And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) that you may obtain mercy.
[4:13] These are the limits (set by) Allah (or ordainments as regards laws of inheritance), and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success.
[4:46] Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from (their) right places and say: "We hear your word (O Muhammad SAW ) and disobey," and "Hear and let you (O Muhammad SAW) hear nothing." And Raina with a twist of their tongues and as a mockery of the religion (Islam). And if only they had said: "We hear and obey", and "Do make us understand," it would have been better for them, and more proper, but Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not except a few
[4:59] O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.
[4:64] We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allahs Leave. If they (hypocrites), when they had been unjust to themselves, had come to you (Muhammad SAW) and begged Allahs Forgiveness, and the Messenger had begged forgiveness for them: indeed, they would have found Allah All-Forgiving (One Who accepts repentance), Most Merciful. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:15 AM
....contd.
[4:65] But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad SAW) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.
[4:80] *He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a watcher over them*.
[4:136] O you who believe! Believe in Allah, and His messenger (Muhammad SAW), and the Book (the Quran) which He has sent down to His messenger, and the Scripture which He sent down to those before (him), and whosoever disbelieves in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His messengers, and the last Day, then indeed he has strayed far away.
[5:7] And remember Allahs Favour upon you and His Covenant with which He bound you when you said: "We hear and we obey." And fear Allah. Verily, Allah is AllKnower of the secrets of (your) breasts.
[5:92] And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and beware (of even coming near to drinking or gambling or AlAnsab, or AlAzlam, etc.) and fear Allah. Then if you turn away, you should know that it is Our Messengers duty to convey (the Message) in the clearest way.
[8:1] They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) about the spoils of war. Say: "The spoils are for Allah and the Messenger." So fear Allah and adjust all matters of difference among you, and obey Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), if you are believers.
[8:20] O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him (i.e. Messenger Muhammad SAW) while you are hearing.
CAN YOU BE A BELIEVER IF YOU DONT OBEY THE MESSENGER?
[8:46] And obey Allah and His Messenger, and do not dispute (with one another) lest you lose courage and your strength depart, and be patient. Surely, Allah is with those who are As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.).
[9:29] Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
[9:71] The believers, men and women, are Auliya (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) of one another, they enjoin (on the people) Al-Maroof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do), and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. polytheism and disbelief of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); they perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat) and give the Zakat, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have His Mercy on them. Surely Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
[9:99] And of the bedouins there are some who believe in Allah and the last Day, and look upon what they spend in Allahs Cause as approaches to Allah, and a cause of receiving the messengers invocations. Indeed these (spendings in Allahs Cause) are an approach for them. Allah will admit them to His Mercy. Certainly Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
[16:44] With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Quran), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.
To hadith rejecters: WHERE ARE THOSE EXPLANATIONS THAT ALLAH COMMANDED THE LAST PROPHET TO MAKE? Allah allowed them to be lost? ... how would those explanations help our generation? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:19 AM
[20:90] And Haroon (Aaron) indeed had said to them beforehand: "O my people!
You are being tried in this, and verily, your Lord is (Allah) the Most
Beneficent, so follow me and obey my order."
[22:78] And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer, give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help!
[24:47] They (hypocrites) say: "We have believed in Allah and in the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and we obey," then a party of them turn away thereafter, such are not believers.
[24:51] The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to
Allah (His Words, the Quran) and His Messenger (SAW), to judge between them, is that they say: "We hear and we obey." And such are the prosperous ones (who will live forever in Paradise).
[24:52] And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (SAW), fears Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful ones.
[24:54] Say: "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away, he (Messenger Muhammad SAW) is only responsible for the duty placed on him (i.e. to convey Allahs Message) and you for that placed on you. If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messengers duty is only to convey (the message) in a clear way (i.e. to preach in a plain way)."
[24:56] And perform AsSalat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) that you may receive mercy (from Allah).
[26:108] "So fear Allah, keep your duty to Him, and obey me.
[26:110] "So keep your duty to Allah, fear Him and obey me."
[26:126] "So fear Allah, keep your duty to Him, and obey me.
[26:131] "So fear Allah, keep your duty to Him, and obey me.
[26:144] "So fear Allah, keep your duty to Him, and obey me.
[26:150] "So fear Allah, keep your duty to Him, and obey me.
[26:163] "So fear Allah, keep your duty to Him, and obey me.
[26:179] "So fear Allah, keep your duty to Him, and obey me.
[26: 215-216] And be kind and humble to the believers who follow you. Then if they disobey you, say: "I am innocent of what you do."
[33:21] Indeed in the messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the last Day and remembers Allah much.
[33:33] And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salat (IqamatasSalat), and give Zakat and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wishes only to remove ArRijs (evil deeds and sins, etc.) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet SAW), and to purify you with a thorough purification.
[33:36] It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.
[33:66] On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say: "Oh, would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)."
[33:71] He will direct you to do righteous good deeds and will forgive you your sins. And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (SAW) he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell-fire and made to enter Paradise).
[43:63] And when Iesa (Jesus) came with (Our) clear Proofs, he said: "I have come to you with Al-Hikmah (Prophethood), and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) in which you differ, therefore fear Allah and obey me,
[47:33] O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) and render not vain your deeds.
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:26 AM
[48:16] Say (O Muhammad SAW) to the bedouins who lagged behind: "You shall be called to fight against a people given to great warfare, then you shall fight them, or they shall surrender. Then if you obey, Allah will give you a fair reward, but if you turn away as you did turn away before, He will punish you with a painful torment."
[48:17] No blame or sin is there upon the blind, nor is there blame or sin upon the lame, nor is there blame or sin upon the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), He will admit him to Gardens beneath which rivers flow (Paradise); and whosoever turns back, He will punish him with a painful torment.
[49:14] The bedouins say: "We believe." Say: "You believe not but you only say, We have surrendered (in Islam), for Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allah and His Messenger (SAW), He will not decrease anything in reward for your deeds. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[58:13] Is it that ye are afraid of spending sums in charity before your private consultation (with him)? If, then, ye do not so, and Allah forgives you, then (at least) establish regular prayer; practise regular charity; and
obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
[58:22] You (O Muhammad SAW) will not find any people who believe in Allah and the last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allah and His messenger (Muhammad SAW ), even though they were their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred (people). For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with Rooh (proofs, light and true guidance) from Himself. And We will admit them to Gardens (Paradise) under which rivers flow, to dwell therein (forever). Allah is pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Verily, it is the Party of Allah that will be the successful.
[59:7] What Allah gave as booty (Fai) to His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) from the people of the townships, - it is for Allah, His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), the kindred (of Messenger Muhammad SAW), the orphans, AlMasakin (the poor), and the wayfarer, in order that it may not become a fortune used by the rich among you. And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment.
[64:12] Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), but if you turn away, then the duty of Our Messenger is only to convey (the Message) clearly.
[71:3] "That ye should worship Allah, fear Him and obey me:
NOW, WILL ANY HADITH REJECTOR GUIDE ME ON HOW I CAN OBEY THE FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) if his sayings and his guidance are not available to me, as claimed by them?
Those who believe in the authenticity of hadeeth collections compiled by Bukhari, Muslim etc advise me to consider these collections to be truthful and consider them as the sayings and guidance of the FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW).
Why should I suspect years of research work done centuries ago by sincere, honest and righteous Isalmic scholars?
Simply because a few of the ahadeeth does not suit my temperament or make keep me away from things I love to do?
Kindly ponder over this: the FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) of Allah is supposed to be a role model for us (the whole of mankind), but how can I follow him or learn from his role if his guidance is not available to me at all. Will Allah ever ask His servants to do something impossible (follow some one whose sayings are not available at all in authentic form)?
[33:21] *Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much *.
ARE THOSE WHO URGE ME TO FOLLOW ONLY QURAN, and throw away all the ahadeeth guiding me or misguiding me? Who is hindering me from the path of Allah (and His messenger)?
[47:34] *Verily, those who disbelieve, and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah (i.e. Islam); then die while they are disbelievers, Allah will not forgive them.*
And by Nafs, and Him Who perfected him (man) in proportion; Then He showed him what is wrong for him and what is right for him; Indeed he succeeds who purifies his ownself. And indeed he fails who corrupts his ownself. [Quran, 91: 7-10]
>> But the Unbelievers (are steeped) in self-glory and Separatism. [Quran 38:2]
Source: http://www.biharanjuman.org/Islam/obey-muhammad-last-messenger-of-Allah.htm
A must reading: Why Muslims Must Follow the Sunnah As Well As the Quran
Introduction <http://www.muhajabah.com/sunna-yes.htm#intro>
The Mistake of those who confuse the Sunna and the
hadiths<http://www.muhajabah.com/sunna-yes.htm#hadith> |
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 8:41 AM
Mr Aboosait, Thank you for your effort. Now please read the following;
Obey God & Obey the Messenger
Many people cite the Qur’anic Verses that command us to “Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger”, and say that Obeying Allah and obeying the Messenger are two different things – Obeying Allah is to obey the Qur’an and obeying the Messenger is to obey the books of Hadith. They point that if obeying the Messenger was the same thing as obeying Allah’s Qur’an, then Allah would have only said “Obey Allah”. These people say that Allah’s inclusion of “obey the Messenger” implies that the Messenger is saying EXTRA things outside of the Qur’an that we must obey.
The thing that many people forget it that Allah does not leave it to speculation as to what the people are to “obey”.
“And obey Allah and obey the messenger and be cautious; but if you turn back, then know that only a clear deliverance of the message is (incumbent) on Our messenger <wa ma_ alar rasu_li il lal balaghul mubin>” (5:92)
“And obey Allah and obey the messenger, but if you turn back, then upon Our messenger devolves only the clear delivery (of the message) <wa ma_ alar rasu_li il lal balaghul mubin>”.(64:12)
“Say: Obey Allah and obey the messenger; but if you turn back, then on him rests that which is imposed on him and on you rests that which is imposed on you; and if you obey him, you are on the right way; and nothing rests on the messenger but clear delivering (of the message) <wa ma_ alar rasu_li il lal bala_ghul mubin>”. (24:54)
Now, if we look at these Ayaat, we notice that Allah has clearly pointed out the duty of the Messenger, i.e. the delivery of the Message.
The word “Messenger” is derived from the word “Message”. A Messenger delivers a Message. To “Obey the Messenger” would thus mean to obey the message he is delivering.
But the argument does not end here. People point out that “Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger” should mean that obedience to the Messenger is separate from Obedience to Allah. This is absurd, as the Messenger does not have any authority except for the reason that he is SENT by Allah. Had Muhammad not been a Messenger of Allah would people obey him? The answer is “NO”. Thus “Obedience” to the Prophet is BECAUSE he is the Messenger of Allah. Thus the two are NOT mutually exclusive obedience – one is highly dependent on the other. It is the same as saying “eat an apple and eat its nutrition”. Here is further Evidence from the Qur’an that they are the same:
“And an announcement from ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore, if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve” (9:3)
Now, did the people hear Allah giving this announcement of immunity? The answer is “No!”. It was only from the LIPS of His Messenger, Muhammad, that they heard this announcement of immunity. Yet it is supposed to come from both Allah and His Messenger. Or do people think that one announcement came from Allah and ANOTHER came from the Messenger?
Allah does not speak to all the people. What He does is that He chooses a human being as His instrument and communicates through that instrument. Who among the companions of the Prophet ever heard any of Allah’s commandments from Allah DIRECTLY? NONE! How can they OBEY Allah then? In that case, according to the above mentioned twisted logic all Allah had to do was say “Obey the Messenger” as it is ONLY through the LIPS of the Messenger that they are hearing the Qur’an.
The following Ayah again establishes that Obedience to Allah and His Messenger is ONE and the SAME thing:
“O you who believe! Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger and do not turn back from HIM <anhu> while you hear” (8:20)
Here the believers are identified to be those who were listening to the Messenger who delivers the Qur’anic laws to them, as the singular pronoun “anhu” (from him) indicates. This confirms that Allah and His Messenger are not two separate sources of law to be obeyed, but that the source of Divine law to be obeyed is ONLY Allah and ONLY the people are able to hear these divine laws through the LIPS of His Messenger.
Thus, the inclusion of the phrase "obey the Messenger" after "Obey God" serves a number of important causes:
A- Who among the companions of the Prophet ever heard any of God's revelations directly from God? No one! Consequently, they cannot obey God except through Muhammad's delivery of the Quran. This once again makes it necessary for God to command people to obey the messenger since he is the one who delivers to them God's message. Moreover, the messenger did not just deliver the Quran and vanish! The prophet spent all his years from the time he first received the revelation till his death inviting all people to believe in and follow the Quran. Hence it is necessary for God to say to all humans to obey the messenger who is inviting them to follow the Quran.
B- The Quran was revealed to Muhammad in order that he would deliver it to a community which was primarily composed of idol worshippers and also some followers of the previous scripture like the Jews and the Christians (Nasara). Once again, and for the benefit of the followers of the scripture that we understand the necessity of the phrase "obey the Messenger". To make this clear, let us assume that the command in the Quran did not contain the phrase "obey the Messenger" but was only a command to "Obey God". Immediately, the Jews and the Christians (Nasara) would say : But we already obey God, God has sent us the scripture and we obey it!". Hence, the phrase "obey the messenger" which endorses the Quran as being the last revelation form God to all humans. The Quran was revealed to mankind so as to supercede all previous scripture:
"Then we revealed to you (O Muhammad) this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and SUPERSEDING them." 5:48
God is the most efficient in expressing any meaning. All Quranic words are chosen by God to convey a precise meaning.
We never read anywhere in the Quran words like "Obey God and obey Muhammad" or obey Jesus, or Moses. The words used are always "obey the word messenger". This is to emphasise that it is the "message" of God that is to be obeyed and not the personal words or views of the messenger.
As mentioned earlier, the word Messenger is derived from the word Message. If there were no message there would not be a messenger. To Obey the Messenger means to obey the message he delivered.
"Absolutely, we have revealed the "Zhikr" (Quran), and, absolutely, we will preserve it." 15:9
These words proclaim God's promise to preserve the Quran. We do not read anywhere else in the Quran that God would preserve the personal sayings of the messenger. As a matter of fact, God did not preserve His Own previous scripture (Torah and Injeel), why would He preserve the human words of one of His servants? Is God elevating His servant to be a legislating god besides Him when God tells us that the SOLE duty of the messenger is to deliver His message?
But this is not all, we are told in the Quran that anything which is not from God would ultimately contain many contradictions and corruptions:
"If it were from other than God, they would have found in it numerous contradictions." 4:82
Despite this clear ayat, the followers of hadith have made claims that their cherished hadith books (primarily Bukhari and Muslim) are fully authentic (Sahih) and without corruption!
Do they not believe God's words in 15:9 and 4:82?
"Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God"s revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you" 5:48
God's command to the prophet to follow what was revelaed to him (Quran) is loud and clear. The importance of this command is emphasised in the words 'You shall rule among them in accordance with God"s revelations'. They are then repeated in ayat 49 to emphasise their importance.
If we are to follow the prophet we must thus follow what he was commanded to follow, and that is the Holy Quran.
Difference between Obey Messenger & obey Muhammed (An example )
Suppose you (Mr. X) are a government servant working in some office. Remember, your subordinates are bound to obey you as THE GOVRNMENT SERVANT ONLY NOT AS Mr.X. So your subordinates are NEVER BOUND TO OBEY you for your PERSONAL ORDERS but only regarding the official job description assigned to you by the government otherwise if the government knows all that what could be the response. This is the difference between “obey the Messenger” and "obey Muhammad",
If you understand the difference between a government servant and Mr.X, you, must do understand the difference between “obey the Messenger” and "obey Muhammad" and also NOWHERE in the Quran, even a single time, is mentioned, "obey Muhammad" but only “obey the Messenger”, if you please concentrate and not dishonest. |
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samsher
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 8:54 AM
[pre]Mr.aboosait, thank you for your effort. Now please read the followings:-
Obey God & Obey the Messenger
Many people cite the Qur’anic Verses that command us to “Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger”, and say that Obeying Allah and obeying the Messenger are two different things – Obeying Allah is to obey the Qur’an and obeying the Messenger is to obey the books of Hadith. They point that if obeying the Messenger was the same thing as obeying Allah’s Qur’an, then Allah would have only said “Obey Allah”. These people say that Allah’s inclusion of “obey the Messenger” implies that the Messenger is saying EXTRA things outside of the Qur’an that we must obey.
The thing that many people forget it that Allah does not leave it to speculation as to what the people are to “obey”.
“And obey Allah and obey the messenger and be cautious; but if you turn back, then know that only a clear deliverance of the message is (incumbent) on Our messenger <wa ma_ alar rasu_li il lal balaghul mubin>” (5:92)
“And obey Allah and obey the messenger, but if you turn back, then upon Our messenger devolves only the clear delivery (of the message) <wa ma_ alar rasu_li il lal balaghul mubin>”.(64:12)
“Say: Obey Allah and obey the messenger; but if you turn back, then on him rests that which is imposed on him and on you rests that which is imposed on you; and if you obey him, you are on the right way; and nothing rests on the messenger but clear delivering (of the message) <wa ma_ alar rasu_li il lal bala_ghul mubin>”. (24:54)
Now, if we look at these Ayaat, we notice that Allah has clearly pointed out the duty of the Messenger, i.e. the delivery of the Message.
The word “Messenger” is derived from the word “Message”. A Messenger delivers a Message. To “Obey the Messenger” would thus mean to obey the message he is delivering.
But the argument does not end here. People point out that “Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger” should mean that obedience to the Messenger is separate from Obedience to Allah. This is absurd, as the Messenger does not have any authority except for the reason that he is SENT by Allah. Had Muhammad not been a Messenger of Allah would people obey him? The answer is “NO”. Thus “Obedience” to the Prophet is BECAUSE he is the Messenger of Allah. Thus the two are NOT mutually exclusive obedience – one is highly dependent on the other. It is the same as saying “eat an apple and eat its nutrition”. Here is further Evidence from the Qur’an that they are the same:
“And an announcement from ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore, if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve” (9:3)
Now, did the people hear Allah giving this announcement of immunity? The answer is “No!”. It was only from the LIPS of His Messenger, Muhammad, that they heard this announcement of immunity. Yet it is supposed to come from both Allah and His Messenger. Or do people think that one announcement came from Allah and ANOTHER came from the Messenger?
Allah does not speak to all the people. What He does is that He chooses a human being as His instrument and communicates through that instrument. Who among the companions of the Prophet ever heard any of Allah’s commandments from Allah DIRECTLY? NONE! How can they OBEY Allah then? In that case, according to the above mentioned twisted logic all Allah had to do was say “Obey the Messenger” as it is ONLY through the LIPS of the Messenger that they are hearing the Qur’an.
The following Ayah again establishes that Obedience to Allah and His Messenger is ONE and the SAME thing:
“O you who believe! Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger and do not turn back from HIM <anhu> while you hear” (8:20)
Here the believers are identified to be those who were listening to the Messenger who delivers the Qur’anic laws to them, as the singular pronoun “anhu” (from him) indicates. This confirms that Allah and His Messenger are not two separate sources of law to be obeyed, but that the source of Divine law to be obeyed is ONLY Allah and ONLY the people are able to hear these divine laws through the LIPS of His Messenger.
Thus, the inclusion of the phrase "obey the Messenger" after "Obey God" serves a number of important causes:
A- Who among the companions of the Prophet ever heard any of God's revelations directly from God? No one! Consequently, they cannot obey God except through Muhammad's delivery of the Quran. This once again makes it necessary for God to command people to obey the messenger since he is the one who delivers to them God's message. Moreover, the messenger did not just deliver the Quran and vanish! The prophet spent all his years from the time he first received the revelation till his death inviting all people to believe in and follow the Quran. Hence it is necessary for God to say to all humans to obey the messenger who is inviting them to follow the Quran.
B- The Quran was revealed to Muhammad in order that he would deliver it to a community which was primarily composed of idol worshippers and also some followers of the previous scripture like the Jews and the Christians (Nasara). Once again, and for the benefit of the followers of the scripture that we understand the necessity of the phrase "obey the Messenger". To make this clear, let us assume that the command in the Quran did not contain the phrase "obey the Messenger" but was only a command to "Obey God". Immediately, the Jews and the Christians (Nasara) would say : But we already obey God, God has sent us the scripture and we obey it!". Hence, the phrase "obey the messenger" which endorses the Quran as being the last revelation form God to all humans. The Quran was revealed to mankind so as to supercede all previous scripture:
"Then we revealed to you (O Muhammad) this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and SUPERSEDING them." 5:48
God is the most efficient in expressing any meaning. All Quranic words are chosen by God to convey a precise meaning.
We never read anywhere in the Quran words like "Obey God and obey Muhammad" or obey Jesus, or Moses. The words used are always "obey the word messenger". This is to emphasise that it is the "message" of God that is to be obeyed and not the personal words or views of the messenger.
As mentioned earlier, the word Messenger is derived from the word Message. If there were no message there would not be a messenger. To Obey the Messenger means to obey the message he delivered.
"Absolutely, we have revealed the "Zhikr" (Quran), and, absolutely, we will preserve it." 15:9
These words proclaim God's promise to preserve the Quran. We do not read anywhere else in the Quran that God would preserve the personal sayings of the messenger. As a matter of fact, God did not preserve His Own previous scripture (Torah and Injeel), why would He preserve the human words of one of His servants? Is God elevating His servant to be a legislating god besides Him when God tells us that the SOLE duty of the messenger is to deliver His message?
But this is not all, we are told in the Quran that anything which is not from God would ultimately contain many contradictions and corruptions:
"If it were from other than God, they would have found in it numerous contradictions." 4:82
Despite this clear ayat, the followers of hadith have made claims that their cherished hadith books (primarily Bukhari and Muslim) are fully authentic (Sahih) and without corruption!
Do they not believe God's words in 15:9 and 4:82?
"Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God"s revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you" 5:48
God's command to the prophet to follow what was revelaed to him (Quran) is loud and clear. The importance of this command is emphasised in the words 'You shall rule among them in accordance with God"s revelations'. They are then repeated in ayat 49 to emphasise their importance.
If we are to follow the prophet we must thus follow what he was commanded to follow, and that is the Holy Quran.
Difference between Obey Messenger & obey Muhammed (Another example )
Suppose you (Mr. X) are a government servant working in some office. Remember, your subordinates are bound to obey you as THE GOVRNMENT SERVANT ONLY NOT AS Mr.X. So your subordinates are NEVER BOUND TO OBEY you for your PERSONAL ORDERS but only regarding the official job description assigned to you by the government otherwise if the government knows all that what could be the response. This is the difference between “obey the Messenger” and "obey Muhammad",
If you understand the difference between a government servant and Mr.X, you, must do understand the difference between “obey the Messenger” and "obey Muhammad" and also NOWHERE in the Quran, even a single time, is mentioned, "obey Muhammad" but only “obey the Messenger”, if you please concentrate and not dishonest.[/pre] |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 11:28 AM
quote:
...... The words used are always "obey the word messenger". This is to emphasise that it is the "message" of God that is to be obeyed and not the personal words or views of the messenger.......... the followers of hadith have made claims that their cherished hadith books (primarily Bukhari and Muslim) are fully authentic (Sahih) and without corruption!...............
Samsher,
Instead of answering the questions I had asked in my post you have copied and pasted some text from the writings of Hadith rejectors like Rashid Khalifa.
Allah says,
Al-Baqara (The Cow)
ثُمَّ أَنتُمْ هَـؤُلاء تَقْتُلُونَ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَتُخْرِجُونَ فَرِيقاً مِّنكُم مِّن دِيَارِهِمْ تَظَاهَرُونَ عَلَيْهِم بِالإِثْمِ وَالْعُدْوَانِ وَإِن يَأتُوكُمْ أُسَارَى تُفَادُوهُمْ وَهُوَ مُحَرَّمٌ عَلَيْكُمْ إِخْرَاجُهُمْ أَفَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِبَعْضِ الْكِتَابِ وَتَكْفُرُونَ بِبَعْضٍ فَمَا جَزَاء مَن يَفْعَلُ ذَلِكَ مِنكُمْ إِلاَّ خِزْيٌ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يُرَدُّونَ إِلَى أَشَدِّ الْعَذَابِ وَمَا اللّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ (2:85)
Translation of the meanings:
2:85 (Y. Ali) After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (Their enemies) against them, in guilt and rancour; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.
In order to prove your deviant view, you have ignored the Verses which I conveyed to you. I repeat one such Verse:
An-Nahl (The Bee)
بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالزُّبُرِ وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الذِّكْرَ لِتُبَيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ مَا نُزِّلَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَلَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ (16:44)
[16:44] With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Quran), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.
I wrote:
To hadith rejecters: WHERE ARE THOSE EXPLANATIONS THAT ALLAH COMMANDED THE LAST PROPHET TO MAKE? Allah allowed them to be lost? ... how would those explanations help our generation?
After that I quoted some more Verses (Please scroll back and read) and then I wrote:
NOW, WILL ANY HADITH REJECTOR GUIDE ME ON HOW I CAN OBEY THE FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) if his sayings and his guidance are not available to me, as claimed by them?
Those who believe in the authenticity of hadeeth collections compiled by Bukhari, Muslim etc advise me to consider these collections to be truthful and consider them as the sayings and guidance of the FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW).
Why should I suspect years of research work done centuries ago by sincere, honest and righteous Isalmic scholars?
Simply because a few of the ahadeeth does not suit my temperament or make keep me away from things I love to do?
Kindly ponder over this: the FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) of Allah is supposed to be a role model for us (the whole of mankind), but how can I follow him or learn from his role if his guidance is not available to me at all. Will Allah ever ask His servants to do something impossible (follow some one whose sayings are not available at all in authentic form)?
Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, July 28, 2011 11:52 AM |
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