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Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Topic initiated on Monday, December 06, 2004  -  6:11 PM Reply with quote
The Qur'an and the Sunnah


asslaam o alaikum!

What follows is a discussion between a friend and myslef on the issue of the Sunnah. This fellow is not convinced of the fact that the Prophet (sws) gave any religious guidance/practices besides the Qur'an. I hope it will be a very interesting and positive disuccion. I request the participants of the forum to share their views and understanding of the issue. All input is welcome.
Question:
Salams!

If I have only the Quran and nothing else then can I follow true islam or will we be rightly guided then? Please reply this question simply by saying "YES" or "NO". I don't need any explanation.

Answer: If we follow the Qur’an only we will of course be rightly guided. But the Qur’an requires you to follow the ma’roof (customs, practices, and concepts established and considered good in the society) of the society by disregarding which you can end up in negating the Qur’an itself. Similar is the case of the established practices of the Prophets of God.

Question: The Quran proclaims that IT(Quran) is complete, perfect and fully detailed and that religious regulations not specifically instituted in the quran constitute a religion other than Islam"

[6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."

[6:38] All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. We did not leave anything out of this book. To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned.

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

[50:45] We are fully aware of everything they utter, while you have no power over them. Therefore, remind with this Quran, those who reverence My warnings.

Then where can I find "5(five) times daily salat prayer" and their exact timings in the Quran?

Answer: Please go through the following discussion and do write back if the matter is not clear:
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=322

Question: Generally, Mahammadans follow Hadith & Quran in their daily religious practices. They also established 'Sariah Law' on the basis of the use of men-made hadith more than the use of Quran. But Almighty Allah said in the Quran that we should not accept any other source as a source of religious law except the Quran and also Almighty Allah ordered Prophet Muhammad to use only the Quran for preaching islam(6:19, 114,115, 50:45)

Answer: I am afraid the Muslim scholars have never considered the Hadith equal to the Qur’an in authority. No doubt that we are required by the Qur’an to follow every religious command of the Prophet (sws) but the authenticity and reliability of the Hadith cannot be established therefore it has always been remained subject to criticism and analysis. I do not know any scholars except for a very insignificant minority which holds that they are to follow the Hadith independently without analyzing the text and the process of communication. It must not be contradicting the Qur’an the established practices and must not offend common sense and known facts.

Question: Has there any single reference in the Nobel Quran from which it can be appered that we should follow men-made hadith besides Quran?

[53:3] 'Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire'. If he didn't speak on his own initiative then why is there so much attributed to him?

According to Sunni hadith (Ahmed, Vol.-1, page-171, Muslim Vol.18, page-229) it is also said that "Do not write down anything of me except the quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it"

Answer: Of course the Prophet (Sws) never urged the companions to write his sayings and even forbade them from doing so in the beginning for at that time people could mix the Qur’an with his sayings which is not Qur’an. Later on he allowed some people to write some of his sayings if they wanted to. But we must be sure of the fact that the Prophet (sws) never went against the Qur’an or the Sunnah (established practice). It is also equally important to know that the Qur’an requires us to follow the Prophet (Sws) unquestionably. It is only the lack of reliability that we do not consider the Hadith a basic course of the religion. Who would dare to go against the Prophet (Sws) if he gave his own opinion and required them to follow it? His understanding of the Qur’an and his practice on its directives are surely error free. For if he erred the Almighty would correct him and thus his ijtihaad is also secured and approved by the Almighty.

Question: Now also please give me your valuable opinion of the following queries;-

(i) [5:6] "O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles...."

The 'Muslim' masses today refuse to be satisfied with the commandments of God. they uphold commandments of men, such as the various Imams and Scholars. As a result, they have a prolonged ablution that depends on which "Sect" they follow.
Why we do this?

Answer: Wudu was performed before the verse of the wudu was revealed. Like the prayer and the fasting it is also a practice established by the Prophet (Sws) as part of the religion. It is only after the people started neglecting the practice and spoiling the order that the Almighty brought it here in the Qur’an. Once the issue has been discussed in the Qur’an, it has outlined all the basic requirements in this regard. Washing the organs three times or rinsing the mouth and the nose is nothing but the Prophet’s way of washing the face perfectly. We follow him for he knew better then we know but we do not say that if one does not rinse the mouth and nose then his wudu is not valid.

Question: (ii) [17:110) ".....You shall not utter your Contact Prayers (Salat) too loudly, nor secretly; use a moderate tone".

Despite this straightforward instruction from GOD the Muslim masses maintain total silence during the noon salat prayer, the afternoon Salat prayer, the third unit of the Sunset salat prayer and the second half of the
night salat prayer.

Answer: Please try to study the verse in its proper context. It only requires the Prophet to recite the Qur’an in that way in tahujjad (which is exclusive obligation for the Prophet)

Question: Where did they get these instructions? Remember we should not follow any other source except Quran(6:114)

Answer: Refer to the discussions above.

Question: (iii) It is God's commandment that we shall not mention any names in our salat prayers, except the name of God(72:18)
[72:18] "The mosques belong to GOD, therefore, do not call on anyone else beside GOD".

But the Muslim masses today follow the innovations that dictate upon them the praising and glorifying of Muhammad and Abraham while praying to their Lord.

Answer: Again I would request you kindly to study the verse in its proper context. Does it condemn polytheism or the Prophet (sws)? What does call connote?

Edited by: tariq hashmi on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:21 AM

Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, December 06, 2004  -  6:19 PM Reply with quote

Follow up questions:
Salam,
• "But the Qur’an requires you to follow the ma’roof (customs, practices, and concepts established and considered good in the society) of the society by disregarding which you can end up in negating the Qur’an itself".
• Now my query is, "if we follow only Quran, then is it possible for us to follow these ma'roof of the society or not?

Of course we can do so for the Qur'an approves them. But from where do we learn them? And are not we following something that is outside the Qur'an itself. Please share you understanding of the following verses:

ثُمَّ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ أَنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (النحل 123)
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ (النساء 64)

Similar is the case of the established practices of the Prophets of God.
• **** What was the established practices of the Prophet of God? Was it only Quran or the other things besides Quran? Was Prophet not practised, preached only Quran?

Please go through the following discussion: http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/novq92y1.html
• [50:45] We are fully aware of everything they utter, while you have no power over them. Therefore, remind with this Quran, those who reverence My warnings.
There is no denying the fact that the Prophet warned his people though the Qur'an. But does it negate the existence of the Sunnah (please note that by Sunnah I do not mean the hadith. Please read through the discussion mentioned above.)
• Regarding my query no.(4) you said "I am afraid the Muslim scholars have never considered the Hadith equal to the Qur’an in authority"
• *** I did not say the Muslim scholars have considered the Hadith as equal to the Quran in authority. I quoted these verses eg. 6:114, 115, 50:45 etc.. Muslim scholars consider the importance of hadith as religious source next to the Nobel Quran and I think this is not permitted because The Almighty Allah forbade this to do so. We can read hadith as history but not religious source. According to the nobel quran the only religious source is Quran itself and nothing else.

The basic sources of the religion are two the Qur'a#n and the Sunnah (not hadith). Hadith is only a record of the life history of the Prophet (sws), his performance of the religious obligations and his personal description. It is important for it is the only source through which we learn his understanding of the religious sources and his best example in following them. Why would we learn the history of the Prophet?, obviously to learn about his conduct and his understanding of the sources. Why do we learn all about him? Does learning about the Prophet (sws) and Alexander the Great of equal significance for Muslims? Please comment.
• I had also a query that "Has there any single reference in the Nobel Quran from which it can be appered that we should follow men-made hadith besides Quran as a religious source"? But you remained silent on the above point.
The Qur'an requires us to follow the Prophet (sws). Does not it? It is only the Prophet (sws) who told you this text is the Qur'an and it is only him who told us this is the Sunnah. Again I would explain that the Sunnah is not Hadith. It includes the practices instituted by the Prophet (sws) as part of the religion. It has come down to us through the consensus of the Muslims of entire generations over the history. It is equally authentic as the Quran is. It does not depend on the Hadith. Were there no hadith collections the Sunnah would remain intact. The reliability of the hadith is subject to criticism and analysis and scholars including the muhaddithoon themselves rejected a great number of them because these lacked authenticity and the ones they thought reliable are not considered by them ultimately reliable and exact sayings of the Prophet (sws). They are called probable truth. One can reject a hadith if it does not fit in the Quranic sources or contradicts the established Sunnah or the known facts. This shows the status of the hadith in comparison to the Qur'an and the Sunanh.
The Prophet (sws) of course gave the religion in the form of the Qur'an and the Sunanh. One is in the form of text and other practices. The Qur'an at many places requires the Muslims to follow the Prophet (sws). When he gives you a verse of the Qur'an accept it and when he gives you a practice to be adhered to you have to accept that too.
• You said "Of course the Prophet (Sws) never urged the companions to write his sayings and even forbade them from doing so in the beginning for at that time people could mix the Qur’an with his sayings which is not Qur’an. Later on he allowed some people to write some of his sayings if they wanted to".
• But the history says that the above hadith particularly Ahmed, Vol-1, page 171 said that this hadith was narratted by Abu Hurairah and history also says that Abu Hurairah was the companion of Prophet who joined with him nearly 3-4 years before the time of the death of Prophet. Then it will be wrong to say that Prophet forbade to write his sayings in the begining for at that time people could mix the Qur'an with his sayings.

I do not think that helps us in establishing that the Prophet (sws) never taught any Sunanh to all and sundry as part of the religion. Please explain you point.
(5) You said "Washing the organs three times or rinsing the mouth and the nose is nothing but the Prophet’s way of washing the face perfectly".
• >>> If we wash our faces simply and not rinsing the mouth and the nose, then will Wudu be perfected or not. If rinse the mouth and nose are required for Wudu then these will definitely be mentioned in the Quran because the words of Almighty Allah were not shortage.

The rinsing of mouth and cleaning nose are not necessary part of the wudu. Do you know this fact is clear on the Muslims? Why do they do so? I think I have explained that. If one does not think that the Prophet (sws) was not more conscious in performing the Qur'anic injunctions and that he is the best exemplar then they may not rinse the mouth and clean nose. Imagine you were a companion of the Prophet (sws) and another person told you that this verse was revealed. You might have decided to wash the nose and rinse the mouth or left it. But when you would find out that the Prophet (sws) did this and you believed that the Prophet (sws) was more conscious than you were, you would have emulated him. If you though you were more conscious and more true in observing the directives you would have gone you own way. The Prophet (sws) would never forbid you from only washing the face and rinsing the mouth etc. for these acts do not form necessary part of the wodu and that wudu is complete without it.

(ii) [17:110) ".....You shall not utter your Contact Prayers (Salat) too loudly, nor secretly; use a moderate tone".

• You said ' It only requires the Prophet to recite the Qur'an in that way in tahujjad(which is exclusive obligation for the Prophet)

• *** Could you please clarify what does mean to say 'Tahujjad'? I think that there is not a single word in that verse from which it can be appeared that the commandment of the above verse was applicable exclusively for the prophet.

I think first I need to learn the details of your view point in this regard . Please explain why do you think the Muslims recite the Qur'an loudly in some prayers and in silently in some others? Where do you think they learned doing this? I could only be able to respond to your question when you clear these points. This discussion is indeed very much paying. Please do respond to my questions. I would also like to invite you to join the following two courses offered on the site www.studying-islam.org (a Understanding the Sunnah and b) Introduction to the Hadith. I am sure all the participants will learn from this useful discussion with you. It will help me present my view before you more clearly and learn you observations in more detail.



Edited by: tariq hashmi on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:53 AM
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Friday, January 07, 2005  -  9:04 AM Reply with quote
Salam,
I think that men-made prophetic hadis are the books that should be red only to know the history of that time, but these are not religions sources of Islam( if I am wrong, then you should give me any reference from the Nobel Quran where it is said that men-made Prophetic hadis are also the religious sources of Islam). The only religions source according to the Quran is Only Quran itself, not any history book like hadith.

I do not want to reply against your comments before because previously as I said to you & proved by citing verses from the Nobel Quran that Hadis are not the religious sources of Islam. But you said otherwise. Please show me a verse from the Nobel Quran at first in support of Prophetic Hadis & Sunnah, then inshallah I give my comments on the issue you had raised. Also you did not reply to my queries sent earlier properly by using only the Quran.

What is your understanding regarding the following verses;

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient


Then please consider the following verse in the light of the verses mentioned above

[17:110) ".....You shall not utter your Contact Prayers (Salat) too loudly, nor secretly; use a moderate tone".


Despite this straightforward instruction from GOD the Muslim masses maintain total silence during the noon salat prayer, the afternoon Salat prayer, the third unit of the Sunset Salat prayer and the second half of the night Salat prayer. Had Prophet disobeyed the commandment of Almighty Allah mentioned in the verse 6:115?(May Allah forgive me). What is Tahujjad? Is it Salat-ul- Tahujjad? Has there any mentioned in the Nobel Quran saying 'Salat-ul-Tajujjad? You said that it is exclusive obligation for the Prophet! Could you please give me any reference from the Nobel Quran in support of your opinion. Please reply this queries clearly, if possible from your end.

Samsher.
Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, January 13, 2005  -  5:17 AM Reply with quote


Thanks for your posts mr. Shamsher.

I too have some questions for you. These, i believe would help us discuss the root of the matter.

Why do you believe in the Qur'an (i ask this because it was the Prophet (sws) himslef who said this and this is the part of the Qur'an. Had it not for him how you could say that this is the Qur'an, the word of God)
How do you know that the book you call 'the Qur'an' is the book revealed to Muhammad (sws) who lived in Arabia in the seventh century AD? OR it is a mere fancy?

sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Monday, January 17, 2005  -  6:52 AM Reply with quote
This question by you Mr. Tariq Hashmi in actual fact exposes your idolatry,
You claim that you believe the Quran because the prophet Muhammad said that it is the word of God!
You place the word of Muhammad above the word of God, do you not know that God tells us in the Quran that the Quran is His word?

There is no verse in the Quran where Muhammad speaks in the first person, so how do you say that this is part of the Quran?????

There are verses in the Quran where God commands Muhammad to declare that the book is from God, so it is NOT Muhammad telling us that, it is God commanding Muhammad to tell us that .... there is a big difference,

Moreover, the prophet Muhammad never came in person to you for telling you that the Quran is from God!
So how do you believe that Muhammad said so? unless you believe what God say in the Quran, then you believe in the Quran in the first place and independant of what Muhammad said 14 centuries ago,

or, are you relying on hadith transferred through the likes of Abu Huraira to establish that the Quran is the word of God, rather than believing in the Quran because of its miracles and because God told us in the Quran that the Quran is His word?

Do you see what I mean brother Hashmi?

And since Muhammad does not say in the Quran that the book is from God, then are you relying on some hadith to establish that Muhammad said that the Quran is the word of God? and if that is the case, then you are in fact placing the hadith ABOVE the Quran as an evidence that the book is from God!


"How do you know that Muhammad said that the Quran is from God?"

Muhammad never came to you to tell you so.
Sadly you are relying on hadith to prove the Quran!!!

The genuine believers believe in the Quran without even having concrete evidence, because the real believers recognise God's signs when they are given to them, they believe without seeing,

this is foretold in the Quran.

Sura 2

2. This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;
3. who believe in the unseen, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and from Our provisions to them, they give to charity.
4. And they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and with regard to the Hereafter, they are absolutely certain.

Let you read the above words given by God which explain how the believers believe in the Quran,
the words :
"they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you"
and the words :
"who believe in the unseen"

That is how the believers believe in the Quran, not because Muhammad told them to believe it, Muhammad cannot manipulate people's minds,
we cannot believe in something just because someone tells us to believe in it!!!

Samsher
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Monday, January 17, 2005  -  7:05 AM Reply with quote
How would you interpret the verse, 'Obey God and Obey the Prophet....' (or something like this?

'atiullahu w attiurrasul...'
Naina

KUWAIT
Posted - Monday, January 17, 2005  -  10:00 AM Reply with quote
The submitters say that they follow only the Quran.But the truth of the matter they follow things besides Quran.They too pray(!) daily prayers.They say that those prayers are from Abrahamic tradition and they say that those traditions are intactly preserved.Can the submitters tell that how the Arabrahic traditions are preserved,but why the traditions of the Prophet(pbuh) which is of latter date is not ?..

one of the funniest things Rashad Khalifa blinded his followers to believe is that you commit any sins[including idolatory,fornication etc...] and die before 40,you go straight to paradise??..looks like easy way to go to Paradise isn't???.
Junaidj

CANADA
Posted - Wednesday, January 19, 2005  -  9:54 AM Reply with quote
If I were to accept your interpretation of the verse 'obey God and obey the Prophet...', in that it really means to 'follow the message', then a further question arises.

God is Omnipotent, He could have had the transcript of the Koran etched on a mountain or on some other object and protected it Himself (as He Himself proclaims in the Koran about protection of the Koran)

See this way, the mountain according to your understanding, would perfectly serve the role that the Holy Prophet would have had. Infact even better, i.e., one would not have to worry about Huffaz dying, or any extraneous sources creeping into religion.

But we know that God is All Wise, then why the Prophet and why not the Mountain or a robot?

Edited by: junaidj on Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:06 AM
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Thursday, January 20, 2005  -  12:34 PM Reply with quote
quote:

The submitters say that they follow only the Quran.But the truth of the matter they follow things besides Quran.They too pray(!) daily prayers.They say that those prayers are from Abrahamic tradition and they say that those traditions are intactly preserved.Can the submitters tell that how the Arabrahic traditions are preserved,but why the traditions of the Prophet(pbuh) which is of latter date is not ?..
one of the funniest things Rashad Khalifa blinded his followers to believe is that you commit any sins[including idolatory,fornication etc...] and die before 40,you go straight to paradise??..looks like easy way to go to Paradise isn't
???.

Salam,

May I ask you a question? What do you mean by saying 'Muslim'? What will be the English word(translation) for the Arabic word 'Muslim'?

May be you did not like Rashad Khalifa, but which he said, said only from the Quran. Some of his followers after his death distorted his views as distorted the views of Prophet Muhammad by some of his followers after his death.
Regarding your second question, I ask you 'what is the age of responsibility according to you or to your ahadis book? Do you really think that an 11 year old boy/girl, who goes to Church with his/her prents and worships Jesus willingly will go to hell forever if he dies before his 12th birthday? What about a child of 12 or 13 or 14 or 15 and so on and so forth? The Qur'an sets the age of responsibility at 40.

[46:15] We enjoined the human being to honor his parents. His mother bore him arduously, gave birth to him arduously, and took intimate care of him for thirty months. When he reaches maturity, and reaches the age of forty, he should say, "My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do the righteous works that please You. Let my children be righteous as well. I have repented to You; I am a submitter."

Definitely, your first reaction to this piece of information will be 'what if the person was really bad, evil and if the person was really wicked, then will he go to Heaven if he died before the age of 40'? The answer is, "Does God know that this person was wicked"? "Yes". "Does God know that this person does not deserve to go to Heaven"? "Yes". God is the only one who terminates our lives on this earth. He knows exactly who deserves to go to Heaven and who deserves to go to Hell. If repentance has any role in determining a person's situation in hereafter, then, why should it be not wishful thinking to believe that the Most Merciful, the Forgiver will not punish a person who did not reach the age, when repentance is strongly advised?

If you take the Quran as a whole, you will see exception to the rule, stated in other verses. For instance, if a person after practising idolatry repents and practices righteousness, then God will forgive that person's previous sins. Therefore, why do you not consider 46:15 bringing another exception, that is age.

If you tell me that ages is not important, the person's capacity and qualifications are important, then you should define those qualifications.

Samsher Ali, India.

Edited by: Ibrahim on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:43 AM
Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, January 27, 2005  -  10:50 AM Reply with quote
Salams
Sorry I want to ask Mr. Shamsher a simple question.
Do the Muslims living in present age believe that the Qur'an is the word of God because it is mentioned in the Quran? This entails that every book that says it is the word of God should be believed such?
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Friday, January 28, 2005  -  9:03 AM Reply with quote
Salam,

Please tell me first which book(s) according to your opinion claimed that it was/they were from God?

Samsher

Edited by: ibrahim on Friday, November 17, 2006 6:38 AM
oosman

USA
Posted - Friday, January 28, 2005  -  4:24 PM Reply with quote
Also I would like to ask are there any other books that claim they are from God + they are preserved by God and cannot be adulterated. Is there any other book that claims that?
Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, January 28, 2005  -  4:50 PM Reply with quote
Salams
But that does not answer my question. Does that?
Naina

KUWAIT
Posted - Saturday, January 29, 2005  -  2:15 PM Reply with quote
hi samsher,

>>>>May I ask you a question? What do you mean by saying 'Muslim'? What will be the English word(translation) for the Arabic word 'Muslim'?

The question mark after the word "submitter" was meant to ask whether the people who claim to be submitters are really submitters to God or not.In my opinion,they are not truly submitters to God but rather submitters to Rashad Khalifah.

>>>May be you did not like Rashad Khalifa, but which he said, said only from the Quran. Some of his followers after his death distorted his views as distorted the views of Prophet Muhammad by some of his followers after his death.

It is not that I don't like Rashad Khalifah without any reason.It is his lies,his forgeries,his inconsistent claims that makes it evident that he was an imposter and that makes me dislike him.

You failed to answer my first question.Firstly,you claim that you follow only the Quran alone and all other sources are not preserved.Yet you pray 5 times and claim that the actions in the prayers are preserved.Aren't you contradicting?.Tell me where in the Quran the number of rakats of the prayer is mentioned?.I will make the matter more clear with a quick question.Do you believe that stoning the Jamrah is a ritual in Hajj?.If yes,please tell me where in the Quran,it is mentioned?.Remember that you believe no other sources other than the Quran.

>>>> I ask you 'what is the age of responsibility according to you or to your ahadis book?

The age of responsibility is the age when you reach mental maturity.I hope you have reached mental maturity.If not,please check up with a good physician and I honestly advise you not to discuss these topics[Quran and Sunnah etc] until you reach mental maturity.Look at the following verse from the quran,

"You shall test the orphans when they reach puberty. As soon as you find them mature enough, give them their property".[4:6 from Rashad Khalifa's Translation].

This is exactly the age of responsibility and it varies from individual to individual.

bye.
Hischam khan

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Saturday, January 29, 2005  -  2:29 PM Reply with quote
Sksamsherali

Could you perhaps give me a summary of that long post because I struggle to even fully read through it all so I don’t know how I’ll find the time to respond. It’s a bit like throwing a million herrings – catching em will be difficult, no? I think that especially for a discussion such as this, it is important that we keep it in control so that it is actually a discussion rather than essay writing.

peace
sksamsherali

INDIA
Posted - Tuesday, February 01, 2005  -  8:46 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Salams
But that does not answer my question. Does that?Text

Salam,
Don't worry brother. I shall Inshallah give the answer to your question. But tell me first which book(s)you claimed that it is/they were from God?

Samsher, India

Edited by: Ibrahim on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:15 AM

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