| Author | Topic |
caress
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 7:39 PM 
Text Sallam to all,
I have read most of the pages of this forum, which of some are very looong, and also repeated again n gain, in the response of questions specially asked by Brother samsher…
Actually it seems that the discussion should be ended here but yet it goes long and long because what brother samsher wants, there is no any solid response to his answers what he wanted, the answers what he wants should be the clear description/statement/saying of Allah (swt) in Holy Quran.
for example,
(1) he says “obey Allah and obey the messenger” should be accepted when it is like “ obey Allah and obey Mohammad”, otherwise no answers should be accepted by any side.
(2) Again as Holy Prophet (sw) was last prophet but not LAST MESSENGER according to the Holy Quran, so if any one has answer with He (Mohammad sw) was last messenger then he should show the proof, otherwise no answer will be accepted..
(3) Then again according to him prophet Mohammad (sw) received one Wahi / revelation i.e Revelation of “Holy Quran” for THE GUIDANCE OF MANKIND, if any one shows him the proof of second type of wahi for GUIDANCE OF MANKIND in clear verses (like this is second type of wahi which I (Allah) sent to Mohammad ) then it is ok, otherwise no answer will be accepted.
So one thing here we all have to accept that NO ONE WAS ABLE TO COME WITH PROOF OF ANWSERS TO SUCH TYPE OF QUESTIONS. ALL THAT ARE MENTIONED INDIRECTLY ANSWRES THE QUESTIONS OF brother samsher, Giving him examples, like that this verse shows so and so, that verse means so and so, this event shows so and so, BUT NOT ANY SOLID ANSWER TO HIS QUESTIONS.
There are so many other points, but the above three are very important and if these are solved then the discussion will be over..
SO if any one has minded to convince him, then bring the solid answers of above questions, if NO then take a fly … like many other members who has left the forum.
I also want to ask brother samsher, if he has time to reply, that do you think, if above answers are not found same as you wanted, then you will be convinced or not in any other way..
One thing more, will you also agree that “ if you (a) or me (b) do not understand language what Allah speaks or what way Allah has sent his instructions in HIS book to you and me, is it necessary that in what way we understand easily THAT WAY Allah should have APPLIED IN HIS book specially for you TYPE,
OR YOU AND ME WILL be able to UNDERSTAND WHEN these verses should have been SO AS, HERE IT (verse) SHOULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN as “ MOHAMMAD” HERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN as “TWO TYPE OF WAHI” HERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN as “ LAST PROPHET AND LAST MESSENGER TOO”, Then we have understood….hmmm now this is right. Otherwise I was not of those who obeyed so easily….
Thanks in anticipation
Cares…Text |
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waseem
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 8:33 PM
Amin Ahsen Islahi writes in Tadabur ul Quran.
Every rasool is a Nabi but every Nabi is not necessarily a rasool. Thus when prophet pbuh is "khatim ul unbiyah", he is also " khatim ur rusul".
He further writes, When we look through the historical record of umbiyah through the divine scriptures and Qur'an, we find that from Hazrat Adam to Hazrat Isa pbut, none of them prophessed to be "khatim ul unbiyah". On the contrary, every nabi gave indications and information of the unbiyah to follow them. When angels questioned hazrat Adam pbuh, he introduced all the unbiyah to follow him to them. When hazrat Ibrahim pbuh prayed to Allah, Allah accepted his prayers, and he was given glad tidings of having unbiyah in his generations to follow. When we look at the history oif bani Israel, we find that every nabi gave clear indications about succeeding nabi. We find the mention of the coming of prophet pbuh as mentioned in surah araaf verse 157. One of the last unbiyah in bani Israel was hazrat Yahyah pbuh. he stated that " the mission of his life was to pave the way for the one to come". He was indicating the coming of hazrat isa pbuh. Hazrat Isa pbuh was the last nabi and rasool in bani Israel, he gave clear indications about the coming of prophet pbuh as quoted in surah saaf verse 6. which ends"and I give glad tidings about tye coming of a rasool after me and his name will be Ahmad".This tradition of naming succeding nabi finished at prophet pbuh. Allah Himself stated in the Qur'an that he is "khatimun nabeen". The prophet pbuh never gave any indication that there would be a succeeding nabi.
The other issue to remember is that if deen was incomlete or unfinished then it would make sense to have further nabi or rasool., but when in Islam the completion of deen had taken place then there was no need to have subsequent nabi after prophet pbuh.
The responsibility that Allah has undertaken of personally protecting the Qur'an is also a consequence of "khatam i nabooat". Prior to islam, if a nation forgot the teachings of their nabi or made alterations, then the following nabi corrected them. But as there will be no nabi after prophet pbuh, Allah has taken the responsibility of protecting the Final Testament.
Hadith from Bukhari
" The prophet pbuh stated thatthe example of myself and the nabi before me is like a person who constructed a building, very beautiful and elegant, but in one corner there was an empty space for one more brick. People used to go around this building and appreciate it but would state why that space was not filled with the missing brick! Thus I am that missing brick and I am "khatam un nabiyeen".
Hadith from Tirmazi
The prophet pbuh stated that "The chain of rasaalat and naboat has finished. After me there will be no more nabi or rasool."
In the famous hadith whwer prophet pbuh stated 6 qualities that he has in comparison to other nabi, the last one was that he is khatim un nabiyeen. the chain of unbiyah completed upon him.
The prophet pbuh in anothe rhadith stated among his names is aqib and then elabotrated that it means that after me there will be no more nabi.
Ans bin malik states hadith " The prophet pbuh stated that after me the chain of nabooat and risaalat will finish. Now there will be no more nabi or rasool. The people became grim after listening this. The prophet pbuh then said " mubassharat" will still remain. People asked what is mubassharat O'Prophet of Allah. Prophet pbuh replied Rooyah (meaning a good dream).
Amin Ahsen Islahi concludes by saying Naboowat does not have different types. there is only one shape of naboowat as shown by the Qur'an and Hadith. "Zilli" and "Barwaazi" naboowat are completely statanic explanations and have no basis in Quran. |
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Rakhtal
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, January 1, 2007 - 2:34 PM
quote:
SO if any one has minded to convince him, then bring the solid answers of above questions, if NO then take a fly … like many other members who has left the forum.
No one is flying but actually shunning the people who regret the prophet (saw) as the lawmaker despite the solid Quranic evidences presented by many participants.
quote:
[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. AND WHEN YOU PREACH YOUR LORD, USING THE QURAN ALONE, they run away in aversion.
If God HIMSELF has placed shields around the minds of the people like you, why they are guilty? |
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cares
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, January 2, 2007 - 12:57 PM
Salam Brother Rakhtal,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SO if any one has minded to convince him, then bring the solid answers of above questions, if NO then take a fly … like many other members who has left the forum.
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No one is flying but actually shunning the people who regret the prophet (saw) as the lawmaker despite the solid Quranic evidences presented by many participants.
Reply: you did not understand brother what i wanted to say, actually i wanted to say that the topics i.e wahy, inspiration, revelation, sunah, hadith, authenticity of hadith, ...etc like, if these are not solved separately bit by bit arguing on both sides respectively, and if one topic is solved or accepted by any particular side, then we have to take a forward step. Otherwise throughing facts and figures from and there, none will be able to understand or will be able to adopt and quit any thing. You see that from page 1 to 38, we are where we were..
quote:
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[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. AND WHEN YOU PREACH YOUR LORD, USING THE QURAN ALONE, they run away in aversion.
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If God HIMSELF has placed shields around the minds of the people like you, why they are guilty?
Reply: I am very happy, that the Holy Quran is such a book in which every one (groups) try to paste some verses on his opposite one and verses hit them easily, BUT IF again the other or opposite party does the same job THESE VERSES ALSO WILL HIT THE FIRST ONE EASILY, none knows whom these fit well but Allah, Although I am follower of sunnah yet, I do not want to repeat the same verse for you.
Cares… |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, January 3, 2007 - 11:47 AM
This posting of is being censored due to the inappropriate language like 'garbage'used for the work of teachers and scholars of Islam.
Even if we do not agree with their opinions, we must keep to the basic manners of interaction, and specially for the people who have worked hard in the field of studies, research and dissemination of religion.
Edited by: hkhan on Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:49 PM |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, January 4, 2007 - 8:09 AM
Salam Rakhtal & usmani790,
Quote:- No one is flying but actually shunning the people who regret the prophet (saw) as the lawmaker despite the solid Quranic evidences presented by many participants.
Reply:- Solid Quranic evidences!!!! Now let us see what is the Originally solid Quranic evidences;
The traditionalists will manipulate any quranic words to give their idol Muhammad the power of being a law maker. If we study one ayat in isolation we can often arrive at very misleading deductions. To get the complete picture we must read all the relevant ayat and not just one or two. As an example please read;
“……..He exhorts them to be righteous, enjoins them from evil, allows for them all good food, and prohibits that which is bad….” (7:157).
To study 7:157 we must also study 66:1 and also 6:114.
As we can see from 6:114, we are told that God is the ONLY source of law, and as we can see in 66:1 God reprimands the prophet for once prohibiting something that was NOT prohibited by God, which tells us very clearly that the prophet does not have the authority to prohibit except what is prohibited by God.
As a result the meaning of 7:157 now becomes very clear, the prophet will advocate his people to do righteous acts, enjoins them from evil and prohibits them from bad things, ALL IN ACCORDANCE WITH WHAT IS GIVEN TO HIM IN THE QURAN BY GOD, and nothing else.
God did not come down to communicate with the people in person, did He? God gave the Quran to Muhammad .... and the Quran came out of Muhammad's mouth, SO MUHAMMAD IS COMMANDED BY GOD TO DO THE ABOVE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW GIVEN IN THE QURAN AND NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH MUHAMMAD'S OWN WHIMS.
Quote:- [17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. AND WHEN YOU PREACH YOUR LORD, USING THE QURAN ALONE, they run away in aversion.
>>>>> If God HIMSELF has placed shields around the minds of the people like you, why they are guilty?
Reply:-  Brother did you understand the meaning of the above verse??? The above verse clearly recommends us that WE SHOULD PREACH OUR LORD BY USING ONLY QURAN, not as you preach by using Ahadith & Sunnah(fabricated and falsely attributed on Muhammad) more than the Qur’an. The above verse does not condemn those who follow only Qur’an as their religious source. The verse in concerned condemns those who follow various sources besides Qur’an as their source of religious law. You people follow the RULINGS of Ahadith, Sunnah, various imams, scholars etc. etc. more than the RULINGS of Nobel Qur’an. So the above verse points out you type of people. You follow idols.
[42:21] They follow idols who decree for them religious laws never authorized by GOD. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.
Now as per Qur’an, see your example below;
[39:29] GOD cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners, compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source. Are they the same? Praise be to GOD; most of them do not know.
Disputing partners = ahadith, sunnah, ijma……
ONE consistent source = The Only Qur’an.
[2:170] When they are told, "Follow what GOD has revealed herein," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?
You people are exactly doing this.
[2:171] The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. Deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.
Samsher. |
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waseem
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, January 6, 2007 - 1:19 PM
salam brother Shamsherali.
I enclose my understanding of difference between a nabi and rasool. My understanding is that according to hadith there were one lakh 24 thousand nabi but around 313 rasool.
Prophet (Nabi) and messenger (Rasool)
Prophets were those selected individuals who received Divine Guidance (Wahi) from Allah and revealed this Guidance to their people. They gave glad tidings to the believers and warned (inzaar) the non believers of the consequences.
Messengers of Allah were those selected prophets who were sent to their nations to implement Allah’s Divine Justice in this world. Allah sent these messengers with clear signs towards their people and they used to become the witnesses of the Truth (shahadah alan naas). They revealed the Truth beyond any doubt (itmam ul hujjah) on their people. The non believers knowingly disobeyed, either because of stubbornness or envy. These disbelievers were then destroyed in this world either by natural calamities or by the swords of the believers.
“Indeed those people who are opposing Allah and his messenger, they are the ones who will be humiliated. Allah has written down that I will prevail and My messenger also. Without doubt Allah is strong and over powering.” (58:20-21)
All messengers are prophets but all prophets are not messengers. Allah’s messengers have always prevailed, however this was not the case with prophets. some of the prophets were assassinated by their nations i.e. Hazrat Yahya.
Allah knows best
kind regards and in need of your prayers |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 12:28 PM
Salam brother Waseem,
Quote:- I enclose my understanding of difference between a nabi and rasool. My understanding is that according to hadith there were one lakh 24 thousand nabi but around 313 rasool.
REPLY:- Qur’an does not support your theory/thinking/opinion. According to Qur’an there were only 20 prophets. But Many messengers have been sent by God. It may be 313 or more than 313 or less than 313.Only some of them have been mentioned by name in the Quran:
"We have sent messengers before you, some of them we mentioned to you, and some We did not mention to you." 40:78 (also 4:164)
The Quran lists 20 prophets (who by definition are also messengers). Verses 83-86 of Sura 6 lists 18 of these prophets, they are:
1- Abraham (also named as a prophet in 19:41 and 33:7)
2- Isaac (also in 19:49 and 37:112)
3- Jacob (also in 19:49)
4- Noah (also in 33:7)
5- David (also in 17:55)
6- Solomon
7- Job
8- Joseph
9- Moses (lso in 19:51 and 33:7)
10- Aaron (also in 19:53)
11- Zachariah
12- John (also in 3:39)
13- Jesus (also in 19:30 and 33:7)
14- Elias
15- Ismail (19:54)
16- Elisha
17- Jonah
18- Lot
If we add the names of the two prophets:
19- Idris (named a prophet in 19:56)
20- Muhammad (who is confirmed to be the last of the prophets (33:40)
We have a total of 20 prophets mentioned by name in the Quran.
The Quran also speaks of three messengers (not named as prophets) they are:
Hud, Saleh, and Shu'aib (named as messengers in 26:125/ 143/ 178 respectively)
This brings the total of messengers mentioned by name in the Quran to 23.
In addition to the 23 messengers, we read in the Quran of other men who are praised and spoken highly of, but not named as messengers or prophets, they are:
Adam (described as one of the chosen 3:33 …….. but not associated with the word messenger or prophet)
Zal-Kifl (described as steadfast, patient and righteous 21:85 and 38:48)
Luqman (described as one endowed with wisdom 31:12)
Quote:- Prophet (Nabi) and messenger (Rasool)
Prophets were those selected individuals who received Divine Guidance (Wahi) from Allah and revealed this Guidance to their people. They gave glad tidings to the believers and warned (inzaar) the non believers of the consequences.
Messengers of Allah were those selected prophets who were sent to their nations to implement Allah’s Divine Justice in this world. Allah sent these messengers with clear signs towards their people and they used to become the witnesses of the Truth (shahadah alan naas). They revealed the Truth beyond any doubt (itmam ul hujjah) on their people.
REPLY:- Could you please tell me brother, what is the difference between these two???
Quote:- The non believers knowingly disobeyed, either because of stubbornness or envy. These disbelievers were then destroyed in this world either by natural calamities or by the swords of the believers.
REPLY:- Then why the disbelievers of modern days’ are not destroyed? Then why Jesus, Christians…… are not destroyed???
Quote:- “Indeed those people who are opposing Allah and his messenger, they are the ones who will be humiliated. Allah has written down that I will prevail and My messenger also. Without doubt Allah is strong and over powering.” (58:20-21)
REPLY:- Brother the verse you mentioned above does not say us that who disbelieve the messenger SURELY will be destroyed IN THIS WORLD by natural calamities or by the swords of the believers.
Quote:- All messengers are prophets but all prophets are not messengers. Allah’s messengers have always prevailed, however this was not the case with prophets. some of the prophets were assassinated by their nations i.e. Hazrat Yahya.
REPLY:- All messengers are not prophets e.g. Saleh but All prophets are messengers, I have already given the proofs.
Brother Hazrat Yahya was messenger prophet as all prophets were messenger also.
"We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that everytime a MESSENGER went to you with anything you disliked, your ego caused you to be arrogant ? Some of them you rejected, and some of them you KILLED." 2"87
"We have taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we sent to them messengers. Whenever a MESSENGER went to them with anything they disliked, some of them they rejected and some they KILLED. " 5:70
Samsher. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, January 19, 2007 - 9:13 AM
assalamu alaykum
Thank you all for your contributions to the topic. However as we are in process of sorting out forums, plz note that all postings longer than A4 page size will be sent back to the sender to either summarize and resend or to send to our Articles section for review and uploading. j.k.
also check out
The Principles of Determining the Sunnah on
http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/JulSunn2y6.htm |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, January 19, 2007 - 11:25 AM
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 6:18 AM
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 12:52 PM
Note:
Some of the postings have been censored due to the inappropriate language like 'garbage'used for the work of teachers and scholars of Islam.
Even if we do not agree with their opinions, we must keep to the basic manners of interaction, and specially for the people who have worked hard in the field of studies, research and dissemination of religion. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Monday, January 22, 2007 - 8:04 AM
thanks dear moderator,
now your presence is felt.
I dont understand why people claim to follow Quran behave in such a way suitable for illitrates.
wassalam |
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cares
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, January 22, 2007 - 11:35 AM
Asalam Alaikum,
Thanks brother for ur kind reply:
Quote: Then in short you agreed that ‘Muhammad was not the last messenger’, isn’t it?
Reply: I agree if the context is so as I mentioned, but I consider prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as last messenger too, for the following reasons.
U know well brother, nowhere it is mentioned that “Quran” is last book of Allah, but yet we all consider it is last because of the following verses of holy Qura’n, in short,
(1) a) "The people used to be one community when God sent THE **PROPHETS** as bearers of good news, as well as warners. HE SENT DOWN WITH THEM THE SCRIPTURE, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes" [2:213]
b)[57/25] We verily sent Our **messengers** with clear proofs, and revealed with them THE BOOK and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure.
(2): [5:03]....This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam....
(3) :[33:40] Muhammad was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of GOD and the final prophet. GOD is fully aware of all things.
1>> we see that the duty of a prophet and a messenger is same, and both have been given books, messages, clear proofs for guidance of mankind, therefore both are TWO TERMS USED INTERCHANGEABLY IN QURAN and two INSEPARABLE facets of one same person/thing.
2>> Allah has completed his religion for guidance of mankind, and he (human being) has no need for any further guidance in obeying Allah.
3>> it is finally stamped that no prophet will come after Prophet Muhammad.
In conclusion,
We see that both have been given same duty, scriptures, proofs, …etc, therefore they are same, and in last (3) if there is no any prophet to come, then surely there will be no book, no messenger, no further guiandace…etc in future.
Quote: Almighty Allah can inspire any creature e.g. He inspired the Bee. Also He inspired the mother of Moses…, but these inspirations have no value towards our religious Rules, Regulations, Rituals …..
Reply: Brother r u sure what u r going to say, I read page 19 of this forum, where u r seen discussing with brother Usmani, and u have the following comments:-
{The above verses do not say that Shu’aib received SCRIPTURE from GOD, the words in this verse (7:93) say that Shu’aib said to his people “ O my people, I have delivered to you the messages of my Lord”….
If you read 7:85 you will know that these messages were:
1-Worship GOD, you have no other god beside Him.
2-You shall give full weight and full measure when you trade.
3-Do not cheat the people out of their rights.
4-Do not corrupt the earth after it has been set straight.
[7:67] He said, "O my people, there is no foolishness in me; I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe.
[7:68] "I deliver to you my Lord's messages, and I am honestly advising you.
[7:69] "Is it too much of a wonder that a message should come to you from your Lord, through a man like you, to warn you? Recall that He made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and multiplied your number. Remember GOD's blessings, that you may succeed."
These verses also do not say that Hood received scripture from GOD. The words in 7:68 say that Messenger Hood said to his people “ I deliver to you my Lord’s messages”… and if you read 7:65 you will also know that these messages were:
"O my people, worship GOD; you have no other god beside Him…….”}
Brother, does these messages (cited above) have no value towards our religious Rules, Regulations, Rituals…etc, u agree that Shou’ab And Hood did not receive scripture i.e recited verses, but u mean both received INSPIRATION, is’nt?.
Then how these inspirations become valuable to the nation of Shouab and Hood, if inspirations have no value to our religios rules…etc??
Very sad brother, how u become blind to ur own statements, this is seeing able.
In addition to this, when these both messengers were died, then how their nations followed their messages?
Furthermore, I have seen that u consider prophet as messenger because of a scripture, yet some times u disagree that all messengers have not been scriptures. Very strange!, a prophet becomes a messenger because of a SCRIPTRE, THEN HOW A MESSENGER CAN BE CALLED A MESSENGER WITHOUT A SCRIPTURE/MESSAGE… WHAT A LOGIC! hahahaha.
Quote: Furthermore, we are told that THE ACCEPTANCE OF ANY OTHER SOURCES besides Qur’an for religious guidance equals to the setting up of OTHER GODS BESIDE GOD:
>>> Such type of verses are addressed to Prophet Muhammad (himself) specially, Can Muhammad obey himself?, what we are told see the following:-
Surah Aaraf(7:157)
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful. {157}
Here obeying of Messenger is separately mentioned, before the obeying of message i.e Quran which is later mentioned separately in the end of this verse, if these are same then y allah mentioned it later.
Therefore obeying of Messenger is separate, besides the obeying of Quran i.e message.
And this is also true that we people have been said to follow Quran too, therefore u are applying one part of obediency n refuse to obey the second part i.e obeying of a messenger/prophet.
Quote: Messenger when delivered God’s message could not make any mistakes, but messenger as a human had done mistakes..
Reply: y ? , was he not a human when he delivered God’s message? Or became angel during delivering the words of God.
Quote:…… This command is regarding the judgment (of any matter) of Muhammad when he judged as person Muhammad and when his judgement was right then they(those people who came to him) would have to obey it and when he was wrong then they did not have to obey that.
Reply: it means u agree that when he judges right, we are bound to obey him?, then what this obediency is of Prophet Muhammad as personal.
Quote: Qur’an never says about any un-recited revelation, taking them as religious source and Qur’an never says about hadith, sunnah(fabricated and attributed them to Muhammad), taking them as religious source.
Reply: (un-recited revelations, i have quoted ur own said stat. abt Shouab & Hood, Plz give response),Obedincy of Prophet Muhammad brought these things i.e sunnah, hadith, and obedience of him, is our religious source mentioned in several places of Holy Quran.
Quote: How could you know that Muhammad had not included in it(the covenant)???
Reply: Here people are told about a prophet who is standing among them, Allah is reminding them the previous covenant with previous prophets. If I here agree that prophet Muhammad was included yet, it does not mean, that the next “ afterward” messenger is not Muhammad.
Suppose brother, u know that Allah took covenant from all people also, yet people are coming or taking birth on this earth after one by one.
If prophet Muhammad was also included in this covenant yet he has to come at his time, because he was called a prophet at that time. And u agreed that every prophet is also a messenger. Because according to u, u can call a prophet a messenger. Is’nt?(I think u will try to understand, because I coud not explain it more fully because of less vocabulary).
Quote: Brother, I think this covenant is taken from ALL PROPHETS, but not in this world, because all prophets did not come in this world at a time. So this covenant had taken in heaven as the Almighty Allah took the covenant from us.
Reply: Brother u think that for taking covenant, is it necessary, that all should be gathered at a time, no brother It is not nessary,
Supose brother, Allah took covenant from Noah (as) hundred thousands years ago, when he was sent to his nation, after more thousands years later, Allah took covenant from Abraham, when he was sent to his nation, after the few years later Allah took covenant from Jesus (as) so… then here in last, can Allah not say that he took covenants from the prophets? Is’nt. (this is just for argument sake example) where as I believe that this was a reminder mentioned in as future tense as brother Usmani explained very well.
In last i would like to say that if any one has still a dout to follow Sunnah, he should read all pages of this forum, he will find that brother samsher is failed to prove the Quran only sorece for guiadance of humankind.
Thanks,
Allah Hafiz
Cares…
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Zulfee
USA
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Posted - Monday, January 22, 2007 - 4:35 PM
quote:
Although I am follower of sunnah yet, I do not want to repeat the same verse.
How can you repeat while the verse is for you people only?
Why CAN NOT the ignorants or the idols worshippers understand the VERY SIMPLE difference between obey the messenger and obey Mohammad? This not understanding the very simple thing is because of the SEAL described in the verse.
[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. AND WHEN YOU PREACH YOUR LORD, USING THE QURAN ALONE, they run away in aversion. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 7:00 AM
quote:
[17:46] We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. AND WHEN YOU PREACH YOUR LORD, USING THE QURAN ALONE, they run away in aversion.
017.046
YUSUFALI: And We put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth).
PICKTHAL: And We place upon their hearts veils lest they should understand it, and in their ears a deafness; and when thou makest mention of thy Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn their backs in aversion.
SHAKIR: And We have placed coverings on their hearts and a heaviness in their ears lest they understand it, and when you mention your Lord alone in the Quran they turn their backs in aversion
Edited by: raushan on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:03 AM |
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